Hip-Hop

Veck · **Posted:** Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:50 am

Kanye West:
-fantastic producer

Busta Rhymes:
-average producer

Funny how everyone forgets about that one thing when they slag off Kanye.

Will Zurmacht · **Posted:** Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:41 am

Veck wrote:

Kanye West:
-fantastic producer

Busta Rhymes:
-average producer

Funny how everyone forgets about that one thing when they slag off Kanye.

What do you mean by "producer?" The guy that makes beats and tweaks settings on the recording equipment? That isn't part of the comparison, which is about lyricism, flow, and originality.

Veck · **Posted:** Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:30 pm

Will Zurmacht wrote:

-outlandish and innovative (for the genre) backing track selection

Oh it's not, is it? Even if it wasn't, I don't see how production is irrelevant.

Velvet LeChance · **Posted:** Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:44 pm

Production is important. CunninLynguists wouldn't be half as good without Kno as they're producer, Necro may not be the greatest Lyracists but the beats he produces are amazing. Granted production isn't as important as flow or delivery or Lyrics, but it still goes towards making a good song.

Will Zurmacht · **Posted:** Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:48 pm

Velvet LeChance wrote:

Production is important. CunninLynguists wouldn't be half as good without Kno as they're producer, Necro may not be the greatest Lyracists but the beats he produces are amazing. Granted production isn't as important as flow or delivery or Lyrics, but it still goes towards making a good song.

Yes indeed. Production is important in all genres of music but even more so in hip hop, where the quality of a beat can make or break a track by itself. Or it can turn a mediocre song by a mediocre rapper into an unlikely hit. Neptunes made several zeroes into heroes (those with subpar "rap skill," as the original quote had it) during the 2000s with their wizardry. Then the best rappers worked with them and combined great talent with their production to make some of the decade's classics.

Now, when a rapper buys a beat from a producer to rap over on his album, like when Jay bought beats from Kanye or Neptunes, it would make no sense to then say JayZ "produced" those beats or those songs. Just because he liked them and chose them and decided to work with those producers. Good we could get clear on that distinction.

"Rap skill" in my view is the lyrical side and the performance side, production is the beat and the mix. That's what the quote was about, and that's what the comparison was about.

Still, I'm glad someone brought up production in the hip hop thread. Who are some of your favorite producers, and some tracks they worked on?

Archea47 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:43 pm

Will Zurmacht wrote:

Still, I'm glad someone brought up production in the hip hop thread. Who are some of your favorite producers, and some tracks they worked on?

If I can chime in, let me say DJ Quik, DJ Quik ... And some more ... Quik

Here's some just from his 1995 album Safe & Sound (NSFW)
Can I Eat It?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0gpIKfcCmc
Let you Havit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEwKjt6v_BM
Safe & Sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6kky3k-MVk

Rapper, writer, producer, too dope ta be a user :lol:

Roger Troutman's prodigy on the Talkbox. Not to mention he did lots of the stuff for death row, 2pac and is still making plenty of others sound good to this day.

Warren G did some fun stuff too
This DJ (1994):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEJa7t4ST0I

Will Zurmacht · **Posted:** Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:22 am

Archea47 wrote:

DJ Quik...

From what I'm hearing, he certainly did fit in with that classic 90s West Coast style. No surprise, then, to read he produced alongside Dre on an album.

The standout producer for me, and yes this is a conventional choice, is Timbaland. I've enjoyed his stuff since I first heard it back in the mid 90s. Missy Elliott and so on. And then he went on to work with the biggest superstars and make a huge impact on the game, along with his colleague Pharell. What makes his production special, I think, is the way it layers stripped-down tribal beat patterns with what I would call (for lack of a better term) "Oriental mystery:" twangy effects, jingles, bells, beep-beep boop-boop robot noises, etc.

Jigga What, Jigga Who; classic Timbo.

Spoiler:

Ceelo and Timbo's I'll Be Around; has there ever been a funner hip hop collabo? Two Southern bosses, informal and easy in their mastery, just exuberant and playing around on a track.

Spoiler:

Archea47 · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:00 am

Will Zurmacht wrote:

Archea47 wrote:

DJ Quik...

From what I'm hearing, he certainly did fit in with that classic 90s West Coast style. No surprise, then, to read he produced alongside Dre on an album.

Dedicated DJ Quik fans usually don't appreciate that comparison

Real Doe (1987 - "The DJ Quik'll neva quit, I'm not a NWA ..."]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmX73YQSvog

Poppin' (2011 - "Stop comparin' me to Dre - before I come through with the scope on the 'K")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVL4e0SUEMA

This video of DJ Quik (2012) at the record store is pretty neat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HTRXnuwGlM

Also for whatever it's worth Quik started as reppin red colors and the NWA boys (Snoop Dogg still calls himself a C*** in the 213 album that came out a few years ago) were blue. DJ Quik made the Bl*** walk-style famous; here's a video with him doing it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFA7jJS4MME

Of course, he *was* signed with Eazy-E in the early 90s and worked with death row in the mid 90s so ... money beats rivalries :lol:

Velvet LeChance · **Posted:** Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:32 pm

In an attempt to revive this tread I'm going to say DJ Premier

DJ Premier
Guru-The Anthem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wpD_S_iEE8
Rawcotiks-Going All Out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCIR-O0MMBc
Gangstarr-Full Clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5vuTToYN8M
Nas-N.Y State of Mind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKjj4hk0pV4

And I don't know why but I'm starting to like everything that Mr Green is putting out particularly this song which only came out a few days ago. (Okay maybe it came out a few weeks ago but I turned off my internet so I'd be able to study and its not like Mr Green gets played on the radio much.)
Matlock & Mr Green-Jenny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tshx5efb4wE

And then there's Necro, great production, completely [&@%!] music. Such a disappointment.

The_Ghost · **Posted:** Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:13 am

"dont know how im managing, never use to drink now i got mickeys on the mantle"

YouTube Link

Archea47 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:44 pm

40 ounce in my lap and it's freezin' my balls!

YouTube Link

Velvet LeChance · **Posted:** Fri May 24, 2013 7:53 pm

Well I was bored and decided to (attempt to) revive this thread by posting my 50 favourite hip hop songs of all time. The list was put together quite quickly (It's more a tool to spark discussion that anything else) and I probably left a few great songs out but anyways. I mostly listen to indie stuff so that so underground artists feature heavily. I also tried to limit the amount of times I used a song by the same artist as to add variety.

Hidden:

Moeboid · **Posted:** Sat May 25, 2013 12:29 am

Ahh, I find songs lists impossible. Besides, I focus on collecting the best albums, which means that I miss a lot of fantastic songs if they happen to appear on an otherwise average album (especially since my rap collection isn't all that "deep"). Anyway, I can still say a few things. First up, you listed an A Tribe Called Quest song, "On Point". I can't find that song anywhere so I assume you mean "Check The Rhime"? Great song, but my favourite off the album is actually "Verses From The Abstract". Another awesome track by them is "Electric Relaxation". For The Notorious B.I.G., I would've put "Ready To Die" above "Hypnotize", and "Juicy" would've been included as well. Find it too hard to pick my favourite Eminem song. "Stan" is a great song, but I find Eminem more of an album artist. None of his tracks really stand out to me. I'm not super familiar with Gang Starr, but my favourite so far is "work". I would've picked that over "Full Clip". For Nas, I'm not sure which I like better out of "It Ain't Hard To Tell" and "New York State Of Mind". Other than that, good to see "C.R.E.A.M." in there. Notable omissions: Snoop Dogg - "Gin And Juice", Dr. Dre - "Nuthin' But A 'G' Thang", NWA - "Straight Outta Compton" (Or "F#*& The Police"), Public Enemy - "Night Of The Living Baseheads" (among others), Kanye West - "Gold Digger" (or something else...), Eric B & Rakim - "Paid In Full". And depending on what you include, you could put The Fugees - "Ready Or Not", Lauryn Hill - "Doo Wop (That Thing)", The Beastie Boys - "Sabotage", something by OutKast, something by The Streets, TLC - "No Scrub". Anyway, nice list

Velvet LeChance · **Posted:** Sat May 25, 2013 1:13 am

I've never been one for collecting lots of albums. I live in Ireland. Public Enemy albums are hard enough to find here. I doubt I'd find CunninLynguists or Aesop Rock or Jedi Minds in any Irish store.

I've always called the song 'On Point'. I originally discovered it on some mixtape a few years ago and was named such so I've just been calling it that ever since. My second favourite song by them is definitely 'Scenario' after that I get very bad at listing.
Never liked the West Coast Gangster stuff much myself it's why I haven't included Dre or Snoop Dogg or NWA or any of them. [&@%!] the Police is a great song though. It'd probably be in my top 100.

Never liked Kanye at all. Too mainstream:/

My favourite Eric B and Rakim song would probably be My Melody or Microphone Fiend though I'm not a huge fan of them.

Juicy is my second favourite song by Biggie.

Moeboid · **Posted:** Sat May 25, 2013 4:51 am

Gotta get into Amazon, man! That's what I do. The record stores are pretty good around here but Amazon's range is obviously even better, and if I bulk buy it's often cheaper too. I got lucky with my Public Enemy albums. I picked up It Takes A Nation Of Millions... and Fear Of A Black Planet for $8 each! Couldn't believe it. Cheapest albums I've ever bought and they're both among my favourites (might've seen them in my top 100).

Really, you'd pick My Melody over Paid In Full? I mean, it's not bad but... Well, nothing stands out about it for me. Oh well.

Oh, and no Missy Elliott!? Get Ur Freak On, Work It, The Rain Song (Supa Dupa Fly). All fantastic songs. Not a fan?

DikaSmausha · **Posted:** Sat May 25, 2013 5:08 am

A lot of today's rap music is bad. There is still a few good ones though.

Velvet LeChance · **Posted:** Sat May 25, 2013 10:55 am

Killer Mike's - Reagan, Epidemic's - Past the Margin, Aesop Rock's - 1000 O'Clock and a lot of other fairly decent songs have been released over the last year or so. There's good music coming out today if you know where to look for it (The Underground). Granted there's ups and downs in music (and I believe we're still in one of those downs) but there are some artists regularly putting out good songs.

Missy Elliotts Get Your Freak On is a great song but I just couldn't find a place for it in my top 50. I listen to mostly indie stuff you see so it's the indie classics that get in over the classic classics.

I don't listen to much Eric B and Rakim. I wouldn't take much out of my opinion on their music.

Veck · **Posted:** Sat May 25, 2013 11:10 am

Rakim's pretty much the best MC ever, seriously. He ties with Nas at the very least.

Also there's plenty of good modern hip hop that's (relatively) mainstream as well. Kendrick Lamar, Joey Bada$$, A$ap Rocky, half of OFWGKTA's output, Kanye etc.

Velvet LeChance · **Posted:** Sat May 25, 2013 12:33 pm

Asap Rocky's '1 Train" was a good song that featured both Kendrick Lamar and Joey Bada$$ as well as some other decent (relatively) mainstream rappers like Big K.R.I.T and Yelawolf. 'Cartoons and Cereal' by Kendrick Lamar was good too. In terms of songs released by OFWGKTA I liked Earl Sweatshirt's 'Chum' and Tyler's 'Yonkers'. That's the only songs that really stick out from any of those artists for me.

I'l never understand why people like Kanye. He's a good producer but that all there is to him.

Veck · **Posted:** Sat May 25, 2013 1:55 pm

Well first of all I'd say "good producer" is a massive understatement. There are very, very few people in the entire music industry today that produce better than Kanye. While he's not on par with the absolute best MCs he's a good rapper and more very distinct. And while a lot of people would shrug it off as unimportant the guy knows exactly how to project his image right. Honestly, if you can listen to all of My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy and say it wasn't very good at any point then there must be something wrong with you.

Velvet LeChance · **Posted:** Sat May 25, 2013 2:20 pm

There must be something wrong with me then. The album was good, I'll give you that, but at no point was I completely blown away by it.

Off the top of my head I find El-P, DJ Premier, Lord Quas/Madlib, 9th Wonder, Necro, Kool Keith/Dr Octagon, Rza, Kno, Rjd2 and Stoupe to all be better than Kanye.

Kanye can produce and knows how to sell himself. That's really it. He is in no way a good MC.

Dan-Ru · **Posted:** Sun May 26, 2013 12:50 pm

I used to like rap quite a bit - Eminem, Rakim, Busta Rhymes and the like. Still do, well... kinda, lately I've tapped into sometime truely awesome. The groups out there that have far less followers than they deserve, and I think it's high time I interrupted this repetitive praising of "The most well known rappers I can think of" to introduce you to the Aussie Hip-Hop scene. The assumption being, of course, that you haven't found your way to this stuff before now.

First off, the best known and (probably) the two biggest names in the Hip-hop scene outright.

Bliss n Eso

Spoiler:

Hilltop Hoods

Spoiler:

To The far, far less known

Mind Over Matter

Spoiler:

Vents

Spoiler:

Drapht

Spoiler:

Koolism

Spoiler:

Enjoy.

Moeboid · **Posted:** Sun May 26, 2013 1:38 pm

This proud Australian suggests that the Aussie Hip-Hop scene (just like the rest of our music scene) isn't worth checking out at all.

Anyway, I wanted to talk about Kanye. I feel like in order to appreciate Kanye, you have to forget the idea of genres and just judge him as a musician. Put him on the same scale that you'd use for Miles Davis and The Beatles. The trouble with him is, although he is a hip-hop artist, his music doesn't define hip-hop in the way other artists do. As a hip-hop producer, perhaps "El-P, DJ Premier, Lord Quas/Madlib, 9th Wonder, Necro, Kool Keith/Dr Octagon, Rza, Kno, Rjd2 and Stoupe" are all ahead of him, but I would also argue that "producer" isn't the best word to use to describe his talents. If, instead of rating him as a producer, or a rapper, we rated him as a composer, or a songwriter; or if we rated his music as just "music", rather than hip-hop, maybe we'd find ourselves putting him ahead of all those artists. I certainly would.

Velvet LeChance · **Posted:** Sun May 26, 2013 1:50 pm

Oh someone else whos heard of Bliss N Eso. Always thought Reflection was their best song, then Addicted, then This Is For You.

Can't ever say I've heard of the rest of the artists though. Mind Over Matter - Fireworks is good. The rest not so much IMO.

Moeboid wrote:

If, instead of rating him as a producer, or a rapper, we rated him as a composer, or a songwriter; or if we rated his music as just "music", rather than hip-hop, maybe we'd find ourselves putting him ahead of all those artists. I certainly would.

As a music artist: Sure I don't mind Kanye. Not exactly what I'd listen to but the music he makes is good enough.

As a hip hop artist: No.

Dan-Ru · **Posted:** Sun May 26, 2013 2:32 pm

Velvet LeChance wrote:

Oh someone else who's heard of Bliss N Eso. Always thought Reflection was their best song, then Addicted, then This Is For You.

Can't ever say I've heard of the rest of the artists though. Mind Over Matter - Fireworks is good. The rest not so much IMO.

Oh the album Running On Air as a whole is top notch no question about it, listing it all would make the post rather large. As for Mind Over Matter, they are kind of an acquired taste but they have a few jewels in amongst it all, still listening to the rest of the three albums I picked up a couple days ago. To be brutally honest, I've only just started checking out the other artists I listed, good stuff, especially Vents. I've been listening to the rest of his new album "Marked For Death" on youtube, It's freaking amazing.

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