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 Post subject: Re: Question about Racial Height Ranges
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:06 am 
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Br3admax wrote:
[snip]

Well considering that elves are actually being operated on by these metaphysics, as opposed to Nords, Bretons, and Imperials where this is a grand total of absolutely zero cases of Daedric or otherwise influence on human nature.

[snip]

You'd still have to give a citation for any of this. Nothing suggests any of these Towers, which don't do what you imply that they do, have any effect on the people who live near them, nor have they changed anyone who lives near them today, even when they were active.

Uh, what are you talking about? You clearly need to play ESO. The Towers have an effect on the people and the geography of a region.

Br3admax wrote:
Colovian have:

A) Nord culture
B) Nordic stipulations for strength and marshalship
C) Gods

So unless you have something actually provided to show how a Colovian isn't all but a Nord, and not only that but how a Colovian is different from a Nibenean or a Breton, you don't really have a leg to stand on.

Colovians have:

A) Colovian culture
B) Nordic stipulations for strength and marshalship
C) Imperial Gods

If you want further evidence, please feel free to browse the wiki's many images of Colovians from both Oblivion and ESO. Compare them to Nords, compare them to Nibeneans, and you will see that maybe something has happened to these guys over the course of many hundreds of years away from the Fatherland. But sure, keep thumping your copy of PGE1 if you want.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Racial Height Ranges
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:21 am 
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It'd be nice if I didn't have to format this in Microsoft Word to read it, for future reference.
Hidden:
Quote:
Except, as game data consistently shows, they are separated in height; not to mention that several lore sources cite Nords as "Tall": If the Cyrics consider Nords as "Tall" then it logically follows that Nords are on average taller than a Cyric. Even if it is only three inches as claimed, that is still a statistically significant amount which shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

Yes, it can, because it is complete and utterly gameplay. Every single Nord is not 6’3, every single Imperial is not 6 foot. Every single Breton isn’t only as tall as Imperials, and every single Imperial isn’t even a part of the same race. This is about lore.
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There is a distinction to be made here between the "interbreeding" of the entire Nordic (race/ethnicity/culture; which I will refer throughout with the word "Gumbo") and the actual interbreeding of the slave cells of imprisoned Cyrics and the crossbreeding of the slave Nords and Elves.

No, no, there really isn’t. Bretons weren’t created by the interbreeding of elves and Man. They were created by Aldmeri Slave masters impregnating some of their female slaves to create a superior race of man. Not every single slave in High Rock gained this “honor” however, and even if it did, it’s been thousands of years since then, with numerous invasions from Cyrodiil and Skyrim. Not to mention, Alyeids didn’t even really breed with Imperials, and only the upper class received most of this, from the Tsaeci not the Alyeids, and even then this was only in the eastern part of Cyrodiil.
Quote:
Within the entire continent of Skyrim it can be assumed that there's enough genetic diversity ("But genetics don't even exist in TES!" I hear you cry. I touch on that later) to prevent any major congenital disorders, while the same cannot be assumed for the Aldmeri slave cells. Ingame texts themselves are hazy on inter-Gumbo relations, so I'll refrain from commenting on the changes of the Slave Nords who mated with Elves.

:\
Skyrim isn’t a continent by any stretch of the imagination. From one side to the other, it’s somewhere 350 miles. This is from top to bottom, and bottom to top, if the estimate of Red Mountain to Mournhold being 250 miles still rings true. Not to mention, all of this isn’t populated, most of it is straight up uninhabitable. So the idea that there is some major genetic diversity in Tamrielic humans would never ring true anyway.

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See 1B Statistical Significance.

I again ask for actual lore, which you still continue to ignore.
Quote:
Given the bulk of ingame texts on the issue describing Nords and Cyrics, I'll let the reader discover that the descriptions are not the same. In fact, they are different; this suggests that Nords and Cyrics are not the same. In fact, this suggests that they are different. Also of note is that the Bretons are also descended from Nords and Nedes, and they are not called Imperials.

No in game text does this. Not a single one. There are in game text that say this:
But the Redguards should not forget the great sacrifice of Imperial blood - Breton, Nord, and Cyrodilic
he Bretons are of Nedic stock with a splash of High Elven blood,(far from the game changer you three keep trying to make it seem)
Not that the closest approximation of a Nede is an Imperial in Tamriel today, but here we are told that Bretons are mostly Nedic. So either you think you know more than the people in lore, or the distinctions aren’t nearly as great as you think they are.

quote]I would love a citation for all of these assertions, mainly because I believe at least one would be a falsehood[/quote]
See the above. Feel free to actually provide some sources of your own, as well. It’s only fair.
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Ah, to the genetics! First, proof that genetics exist in TES "The twisted forms you've seen didn't occur overnight. It isn't a plague or a disease that ravaged our species. The dwarves may have stolen their sight, but it took many generations for them to become what they are today." This suggests that while one human-elf pair might not produce a Breton, many generations of pairs may very well, and indeed did, produce Bretons.

How exactly does the dwarves feeding the Falmer toxic glowing mushroom and making them slaves suggest that Bretons became a distinct race as a whole, as opposed to the Falmer who were all universally, in this case, blinded? Like in the slightest. It’s also not proof of genetics, as well as the fact that genetics doesn’t take hundreds of years to produce a race. It most certainly also doesn’t require magic.
Quote:
citation needed

Again, read the above. But these are supposed to be humans, and the last time I checked, when I lined up an Italian, a German, a Frenchmen, and an Englishmen, I wasn’t able to pick out who was who based on super jarring physical traits. Not that any of these traits are mentioned even remotely universal among people in Tamriel.
[ quote]Image
[/quote]
The citation is in what you responded to, though the hypocrisy of you providing no sources for your own claims is not lost on me.
Quote:
Please see 2C where it is shown that genetics,

It doesn’t.
Quote:
and thus genes, exist in Nirn and by extension, Tamriel. Also please re-read Racial Phylogeny "Generally the offspring bear the racial traits of the mother, though some traces of the father's race may also be present"

Your grasp of genetics is flawed, to say the least, if you think that is how genetics works.

Quote:
Bretons are actually described as being of smaller stature, so no it doesn't sound a lot alike.

Where are they described as a whole smaller than Nords? If anything, it’s being cultured to be mages and wizards, as opposed to warriors, that causes this. Not genes.
Quote:
It doesn't even sound a little alike. May I offer the
"Bretons have hands.
sounds a lot like
Nords have hands."
variation?

I like how this is comparable in anyway. Not that it actually hurts my argument at all, considering Bretons and Nords gained their hands from the same source. :\
Quote:
Cyrics had:

Isn’t a thing. I can only guess you mean Cyrodiilics.
Quote:
A)Dunmer Culture

They have some. In the very eastern reaches of Cheydiinhal.
Quote:
B)Morrowind itself

No, they don’t.
Quote:
C)Gods

They don’t have the same gods. :\
Quote:
Therefore the only logical conclusion is that Imperials are actually Dark Elves.

It sure would be if legit any source in the entire lexicon of ES lore made the claim that Imperials were born of Dunmeri blood. But that claim isn’t made.

Now, enough logical fallacies, and provide a source of your own. Deal with the argument itself, and not my structure of it.
legoless wrote:
Uh, what are you talking about? You clearly need to play ESO. The Towers have an effect on the people

Vampires hardly make up the majority of any race in Tamriel. And given their affiliation with Bal, and the circumstances behind current events, that's hardly even a good example.
Quote:
and the geography of a region.

Geography isn't exactly a person, and it's still not documented anywhere as effecting actual people who move there.
Quote:

A) Colovian culture
B) Nordic stipulations for strength and marshalship
C) Imperial Gods

"Shezarr is especially venerated in the Colovian West, though he is called Shor there, as the West Kings are resolutely, and religiously, Nordic."
-Shezzar and the Divines.

Doesn't seem to agree with you. Like at all.
Quote:
If you want further evidence, please feel free to browse the wiki's many images of Colovians from both Oblivion and ESO.

I'll stick to the lore books and not gameplay oversimplifications.
Quote:
Compare them to Nords, compare them to Nibeneans, and you will see that maybe something has happened to these guys over the course of many hundreds of years away from the Fatherland. But sure, keep thumping your copy of PGE1 if you want.

My source is actually in Oblivion and Skyrim, ironically enough, but please continue.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Racial Height Ranges
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:40 am 
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Br3admax wrote:
legoless wrote:
Uh, what are you talking about? You clearly need to play ESO. The Towers have an effect on the people

Vampires hardly make up the majority of any race in Tamriel. And given their affiliation with Bal, and the circumstances behind current events, that's hardly even a good example.

Your response illustrates my point exactly lol. It's a perfect example, because it shows what the Doomcrag - a failed Tower - can do to a region and its people. You're entirely missing the current lore. If you're gonna continue to demand citations without actually doing your homework, I think I'll just follow President Underwood's example and bow out.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Racial Height Ranges
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:33 am 
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Still awkward to me that male wood elves are shorter than female ones. That being said, one really shouldn't expect uniform height even for the same gender of the race.


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