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@OP

Both parties benefit Dovahkiin in their own way: the Greybeards help greatly in both harnessing and understanding the Thu'um (the PC would be able to learn and use shouts, but they wouldn't really understand exactly what they're doing [excluding the fourth wall]--kinda like sex ed), while the Blades help to coax the Dovahkiin into figuring out how to neutralize the threat of Alduin (by pushing the PC into asking the Greybeards about a particular spell, who then direct them to Parthy).

What separates them is pacifism (Greybeards) and severe acute aggression (Blades).
Materially, they both provide locations of Word Walls; the Blades do offer a faction to join, but at the expense of killing Falkor Parthunaax.

I like Parthunaax, and I prefer to think of the Blades as the sleek/suave spy service/special forces they were in previous titles, so joining the Blades in Skyrim doesn't appeal to me. Esbern is cool, but Delphine is a little irritating towards the end of her dialogue. So I "stay" with the Greybeards.

It depends on the character that I'm playing as. If I am playing a character who favors the empire and all that whatnot, i usually stay with the Blades, vice-versa if I'm playing a character that is more of a rebel.

I get the feeling that the Blades vs Greybeards is the same thing as Empire vs Stormcloak. But that's just me.
I however usually go with the blades, but killing Paarthy is so sad.

Next time follow your gut and don't kill Paarthy

In my opinion the Blades just want to use you not serve you as they say. the Grey beards offer advice, teaching and require nothing from you aside the horn for there guidence and teaching. They also never give you an atimaduim as the blades do they just make you unwelcome if you commit an act of violence angainst there teachings and master by killing paurthanox.

How far along my character is plays a big part in this decision for me. At lower levels, or earlier in the game, it feels more realistic to be treated with a healthy dose of skepticism by the Blades. I like the Greybeards alot more, but the idea they just bow down and hand over such power to a relatively unknown dragonborn seems unwise. If the character has been around a bit however, it makes perfect sense that I've proven myself and earned the Greybeards respect. I guess the Blades feels more like you join up, or enlist, as opposed to being "the chosen one".

One of the reasons I like skyrim is that events make me rage sometimes.
The very first raging happened when the imperial captain sent me to the block. I was like: "really? no trial, or questions". And that is why I massacre legionaries on sight and rather join the stormcloaks because it is a small price to pay really.

A more notable raging point in my gameplay was caused by the blades.
From the storyline I got the following conclusions.
Blades are in fact an imperial agency and have nothing to do with the dragonborn of old times.
Yes they lied to you. The beards recognized you after your 1st dragon kill, from the top of a damn mountain. Delphie not only didn't believe even after Whiterun, hindered you on your quest for the beards, and sent you to do imperial agency business with the thalmor who have absolutely nothing to do with the dragons.
But if they served the dragonborns of old time they should have known alduin will be back and the thalmor have nothing to do with it. Yes, they lied to you again.
Just imagine dragons appearing in our world. You manage to kill one and suddenly an NSA agent walks up to you saying: "we were totally dragon slayers 2000 years ago and you should do as we say because Iran is summoning them in league with Russia and the Chinese". Yeah right.

So I was already raging before one of them came to me saying that an "oath" prevents him from helping me until I kill the beard dragon.
So I should betray the people who actually offered me some help and kill the only character who gave me some power (yes I like my 25% stagger, and the blade perks are crap) just because he chose a fake "oath" over saving the damn world? Sure I totally wont be using you for free offensive skill training, mister "essential to the story" blade leader.

Now why would the Empire want the beard dragon dead? Because he is part of the nord history. The best way to conquer people is by depriving them from their own traditions and history, to make them generic imperials, without roots.

In short, I hate the Empire, I hate the blades, an agency of the Empire trying to use me to further their own goals.

I thought that the Blades - which consists of just Esbern and Delphine don't forget, who have been on the run for 20-30 years and living in terror, one of them living amongst rats in the sewers at the mercy of thieves the other a grumpy barmaid with a secret bat cave. So I think they are a bit unhinged to be honest, and have clinged to ancient laws and rules to keep them going which is quite understandable. So it's understandable they have mentally been set to factory zero, which is kill dragons.



As far as the Greybeards are concerned post main quest, perhaps P could have asked you to join the Beards as a sort of figurehead for Hrothgar, and occasionally give you locations of dovah/dragon worshippers who have refused to listen to his diplomacy and wish to kill the DK - this way you have the odd dragon slaying mission, and can go out and recruit for the greybeards (that idea was from Captain Hindsight btw)

tl/dr:
i usually side with neither and have avoided getting the game to this decision point with several characters for the reasons outlined above

I have been gone for a while. I have decided that Neither are right. They are both wrong in their ways.

The Blades: They are crazy and murderous. But they do have a point. The dragonborn was always meant to be a dragon slayer, not just another name for chosen one, and Paarthurnax cannot fully be trusted.

The Greybeards: They have lost it up there. The Thu'um was never meant to be used for worship, and was always a tool of war. They are right that it should not be used willy-nilly, like Ulfric. It does not mean, however, that one who seeks to learn to use it should be forced into a path of pacifism and sit up on a mountain all day every day.

So lumberjacks should just cut out all the trees in the world because thats what their name is all about you know so let none survive. Who needs trees anyhow? Yea awesome logic. Paarth represents all sentient creatures craving for redemption and peace. He isn't sitting on that stupid mountain for god knows how long because he likes beards and the color gray.
And while you may be right about the beards being a bit crazy, they are NOT worshiping the thuum as much as shaolin monks aren't worshiping kung fu. And there is an obvious connection between shaolins and greybeards.

Personally my attitude toward other people is heavily influenced by their general attitude toward the world. The greys have a live and let live attitude and that's fine by me.
The blades have this vindictive nature with a hint of racism in it. They give you this "group of dragonsalyer" show with a mandate to save the world, and than they screw you over again and again. Heck they screw you over BEFORE you officially meet them by stealing the horn. They derail you from your righteous cause to save the world and offer trash in return. They behave like your boss despite the fact that YOU are the dragonborn, YOU need to rebuild the blades so YOU are their boss.
As I said the reason I like this game is because it makes me rage sometimes. I think these are moral choices you HAVE to make and cant just walk away like none of you business.
Such choices are the rebellion, (skyrim sure as hell don't belong to the nords, but sure don't belong to a government letting fascists roam the land killing people at shrines they don't like) or the alikr redguard woman quest(there are obvious evidences that the woman is lying).

I never said that, just that both sides are wrong in their own ways, which I have mentioned. If you look at the shouts, a good number (majority) of them are combat-based ones. makes no sense for them to be used as a pacifist worship tool when that is taken into account. They do not worship the thu'um, but use it for worship, which is not it's intended purpose. And the Dragonborn was the greatest Dragonslayer.

Remember greybeards and DB are different. Angier says your choice to follow the way of the voice is comendable but remember Akatosh gave you this ability for a reason. which allows you to use your voice for violence for the right purposes in so many words, i cant remember the exact wording. Its only used wrong if its used for bad violence such as murder or such, not to stop a bandit or dragon from killing you and others.

Esbern is a radical applying a code without any regard for its purpose. This is a guy you found in a dank hole with a bunch of crazy people, and that's where he should've stayed, clearly, because his insistence on killing Paarthurnax is evidence of a delusional, genocidal madness.

Greybeards, all the way.

The truth is that the Thu'um was originally meant for combat purposes, and that is evident by the number of shouts that are best used in battle, which is like 80% of them.

In a lot of ways, I favor the Blades. The Blades have a much more pragmatic outlook than the Greybeards, and because of this, they are much more capable of getting things done and making a difference in the world, and particularly in the inevitable war with the Thalmor. I can understand the Greybeard's adherence to the Way - with examples like Ulfric showing the danger of utilizing the Thu'um in the affairs of the outside world, they do have a legitimate reason to caution against abusing the power of the Voice. But it seems wasteful to squander the gift completely, particularly with the threat of the Thalmor looming on the horizon.

That said, I can never support the Blades' desire to kill Paarthurnax, who had been nothing but an ally - and having a dragon as an ally is an extremely valuable resource. I'd rather not squander that, nor kill a sentient being for the sins of its past that he is trying to make amends for. "He betrayed Alduin so he might betray us" is not a convincing enough argument to me. So, at least with the two characters I've played far enough into the main quest to reach this decision, I have sided with the Greybeards (additionally it made more sense for my Nord character to side with them anyway).

Utility and original purpose are not linked. Plenty of essentially peaceful endeavors have been co-opted and utilized as great tools of war. Cell phones are a great example. I doubt the inventors set out to create billions of CIA tracking devices. But here we are.

But the Thu'um is designed with a combat-type design, used in battles like wars. cell phones were not designed for war, but to make life easier on us as humans.

Whilst the THu'um may have been created by Akatosh for combat purposes, not all of the shouts are for that. Clear Skies is useless in a fight. Whirlwind sprint is just a quickish way to travel. The last major use of the Thu'um prior to the return of the Dovahkiin was during the dragon wars(that we know of). Not counting Ulfric and his shouting the king to death.

Again, just conjecture. For all we know, Unrelenting Force was designed to herd mammoths.



Tiber Septim.

Actually, you can use Whirlwind Sprint in a battle. Our dear friend, Mirak is a wonderful example of what can be done with it. Doesn't cause damage, but it gives the DB an advantage. And in fact, they can pretty much all be used in battle. That bandit went crazy with fear and you can't find him? Aura Whisper. Etc. I agree that for the most part, the Thu'um was designed for combat.

True but i feel that Bethesda focused too much on the combat side of the Thu'um instead of trying to show that it wasn't just a weapon but there is little proof that the nords used it for anything apart from war.

@ME, I can't believe i forgot about Tiber Septim. *hangs head in shame*

The Decision in the Game was dumb and totally nonsensical.

If they want to retcon the Blades into originally being Dragon Slayers, that is fine. But that is so far removed from the Blades as we knew them, that is at best, academic. We've met the Blades. We saw them in Morrowind and Oblivion. They were totally dedicated to the Emperor and Empire, whatever Dragon Hunting compulsion they once displayed has long since been subsumed by their role as Imperial Protectors.

This is evidenced by the fact that they ALLOWED PARATHURNAX TO LIVE for centuries. Tiber Septim was aligned with Dragons and some were even known to do his bidding.. The Blades were fine with this stuff. They didn't abandon the Empire, they didn't strike or anything dumb like that. IF they actually had a problem with it, it wasn't a big enough problem for them to do something about it.

But the last Septim dies, the Blades get disorganized, the Thalmor wipe them out, then somewhere in the darkness they reach for their ancient heritage and come to the conclusion that their last chance for salvation lies in the rediscovery of a Dragon Born.

You, the Dragon Born, are their last hope! They find you, twist your arm, and you actually come through for them. You save their ancient order. But then they decide to do what countless generations of Blades NEVER DID, they demand you kill Parathurnax, or they will have nothing to do with you.

Not only is this sort of ultimatium completely at odds with everything that has happened in-game. But it has no historical precedence either. Regardless of the Blades original ancient origins, they have been Body guards of the Emperor and Empire first, as long as anyone can remember. They clearly didn't think killing Parathurnax was a priority for all that time they spent serving the Emperors. But now in their weekend state, they make this demand of you?

It is dumb.

There shouldn't be a reason that the player, or any of us, has to pick between Greybeards and Blades. Tiber Septim certainly didn't have to make that choice. And all future Septims, who likely had little interaction or investment in the Greybeards/Parathurnax, didn't have to make that choice either.

The only REAL choice here is to murder Delphine where she stands. She has clearly let power get to her head, completely forgotten the mandate of the Blades and what you've done for her.

Also,



Tiber Septim.[/quote]

Really? Jurgen Windcaller, the Battle at Red Mountain, Wulfharth!… the Thu'um has not been asleep! I think though after Jurden Windcaller's "The Way" reforms, the Thu'um became a controlled substance.

I agree; it doesn't make much sense that the Blades would assist Tiber while Tiber was making deals with dragons. It doesn't mesh with the story as we know it. However, there are two things to consider: you are the Last Dragonborn, meaning that you represent the Blades' last means of permanently killing a dragon. They may have tolerated kicking the can down the road with Tiber, but not with you, for this reason. Secondly, Tiber Septim aligned himself with dragons, but how did that work out for dragons? I think it's possible that the Blades betrayed Tiber's deal and wiped out as many as they could anyways (Nahilfargus (sp), the red dragon from Redguard, being one they couldn't find, though Cyrus took care of that).

Anyways, in general agreement with your stance, though I think you should focus your disdain on Esbern. I think it's implied that Delphine and the others are following his lead. And the Blades' origins as dragon slayers has been at least implied since Oblivion, if not before.

I really best expressed my thoughts on the matter here.

The blades, cos even thought they suck in skyrim you're PC has been a blades agent in every game since daggerfall and i couldn't give a skeevers ass about the greybeards and their quasi religious ways and oh so deep philosophies.

Really? Jurgen Windcaller, the Battle at Red Mountain, Wulfharth!… the Thu'um has not been asleep! I think though after Jurden Windcaller's "The Way" reforms, the Thu'um became a controlled substance. [/quote]

How on Nirn did I forget about that!? *facepalms at his mistake*

Bethesda really dropped the ball with the Blades/Greybeard dillema. It had a lot of potential. Delphine could have been ousted by the Dovahkiin after refusing to hand over the power to lead the Blades as they are supposed to serve the dragonborn, not send him or her on pointless errands or worse, steal an important item related to the training of the Dovahkiin when Alduin the World Eater has returned. It would have been interesting if the Blades were torn between killing all dragons and allowing some to live after the Dovahkiin showed them proof that all Dovahs are not hostile. The Greybeards, they were decent but the training should have been longer and have repeatable training quests related to the Voice.