Bloodmoon talk:Werewolf

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Contents 1 Needs Cleanup 2 Possible Errors 3 Bizarre observation 4 The Static Attributes 5 Caenlorn? 6 Werewolf Vision 7 Detect Life

[edit] Needs Cleanup

there is also a cheat to become a werewolf that is

player->addspell "werewolf blood"

This comment needs to be cleaned up (proper grammar, proper syntax) before being put back into the article. --Nephele 15:12, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Possible Errors

Agility, endurance, speed, strength, acrobatics, athletics, hand-to-hand, sneak, and unarmored will all increase in stat, everything else will set to zero.

This piece may be incorrect. According to Rohugh, myself and another user [1], the statistics claimed to be modified here are infact not. Sneak we have confirmed to be taken down by atleast 5 points, athletics also appears to have been knocked down and so has speed. Right now, I've only removed Sneak because it's the only one definitely confirmed. It'd be good if a few other people could test out they're Werewolves and report back so we can make sure the info is right. --thedoctor44 14:51, 20 May 2007

The stats are all set to a specific level. For some players, it is an increase, for some it is a decrease. There are mods out the raise the stats based on a player's level, but in the vanilla game that is not the case.--68.192.188.142 08:39, 27 August 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Bizarre observation

As stated, the werewolves are NPC's, NOT creatures. Therefore, a Calm Humanoid Spell of sufficient magnitude will work on them. However, there is a bizarre side-effect to this. During the Bloodmoon:The_Siege_of_the_Skaal_Village quest, i thought that i would be clever, fire off a mass-effect calm humanoid spell, and then kill the non-hostile werewolves at my leisure. So, I cast the calm spell, they all settled down, and I started attacking. A notification popped up that my crime had been reported, and I got a talk screen from one of the guards saying that i would now pay for my crimes. Yeah--the werewolves are NPC's, and because my calm spell made them non-hostile, it was a crime to attack them. Go figure. I also tried entering the talk screen with them (to taunt them into attacking), but apparently it's disabled. Weird, weird glitch. I'm kinda new here so I don't know if the info should go on an actual page or which one, but i thought i'd share and at least ask whether you guys want it on the site.--85.130.6.109 12:26, 12 December 2007 (EST) oops, forgot to log in.--Reason.decrystallized 12:27, 12 December 2007 (EST)

[edit] The Static Attributes

There're only static attributes. STRENGTH: 150 INTELLIGENCE: 0 WILLPOWER: 0 AGILITY: 150 SPEED: 90 ENDURANCE: 150 PERSONALITY LUCK: 25

And for stats, sneak is always 95 and other stats also remain static. Of course if you have speed 50, it will be a + add in white, otherwise it will be red decreasement and so on.

[edit] Caenlorn?

is the Caenlorn Werewolf related to the Caenlorn in Oblivion? (the bosmer brother running the flowing bowl in Anvil)?

Looks like a major coinicidence to me. The odds of an obscure Bosmer character in Anvil having anything whatsoever to do with a Nordic legendary wolf is just too slim. My guess is it's a failure of the random name generator, and they just didn't notice the name was already used. Wouldn't be the first time something like this happened. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 01:04, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Werewolf Vision

I've changed the information about a werewolf's vision. The article previously stated that "Your field of vision is expanded considerably, enabling you to see much farther" and "you will be able to Detect Life around you, which lets you see any creature/NPC on the map". Both of these statements are incorrect. Werewolves are given a spell called "werewolf vision", which grants Night Eye 25pts and Detect Animal 4000pts (and yes - I mean 4,000). There's no magic effect called "Detect Life" and there's nothing about expanding the field of vision. If anybody else has anything further, please let me know. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 17:58, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Detect Life

(following discussion moved here from a deleted talk page previously at [[Bloodmoon talk:Detect Life]]) --Nephele^Talk 12:10, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

I can't find any reference in the CS to this effect. The werewolf has one ability called "werewolf vision", which includes a Night Eye and Detect Animal effect, but there's no "Detect Life" effect, and the Detect Life effect doesn't exist under Magic Effects either. Additionally, a quick test of this shows that it does NOT reveal the location of NPCs, though it does work on undead. (This is no different from any other spell or effect with the Detect Animal effect on it.) Are you sure this "Detect Life" thing isn't being added by a third party mod? Because it sure doesn't exist in my version of the game. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 19:20, 20 July 2008 (EDT )

Well, this started because during Hircine's Hunt the werewolves attacked me while being invisible (CE Invisible, no action, I just was watching them kill the Imperial). Second, chameleon (50-80%) and sneaking (100 skill, even tried 120 skill) were of very limited use. The only explanation I could come up with is their ability Detect Life, as seen in this interview and similar to Oblivion:Detect Life. I put on Hircine's Ring, turned into a werewolf, and could see all the other werewolves on the mini-map. Now those are humanoid, not creatures nor animals or undead, thus Detect Life is different from Morrowind:Detect Animal. This article is very much in a test phase, would welcome any information. I'll try the MQ as a werewolf next week, to get some more answers on this and other things. --Benould^•T•C 21:33, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

The werewolves in the Hunt are specifically scripted to go straight towards you and attack as soon as they come to life - thus Invisibility and Chameleon will be of limited use, because they have automatically decided to attack you. (Though I think if you cast the invisibility AFTER they first come to life from the pedestals, you might be able to fool them.) As for you detecting them, I think that part of the werewolf scripts may cause werewolves to be detected as creatures using the normal Detect Animal effect. (There is a creature-version of the werewolf in the CS, but it lacks animation. I'd thought that it was just a previous attempt that was abandoned in favor of the current technique, but maybe it's really there for a reason?) I doubt that normal NPCs would be detectable though. There certainly is no "Detect Life" effect in the game at all, so that's not what's causing this. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 23:35, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for the reply, still something is puzzling here. I tried to unequip/reequip my Invisible ring, to no avail, they do continue to attack. As for the wolves being creatures, hmm, why can I then calm them by using Morrowind:Calm Humanoid to great effect? In fact, Bloodmoon:Werewolf#NPC_Werewolves list them as NPC, level 70 Argonian Acrobats. It seems the Detect Life used here was further developed and then implemented in Oblivion. Weird that it doesn't show up in the CS, and that the hunt is specifically scripted. Oh, and my super Detect Animal potions do not show them. More testing is needed. --Benould^•T•C 00:21, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, I know werewolves are NPCs. Just saying they might be cheating to make them appear as creatures by having an inactive, invisible creature that's always in the same location as them. (Would possibly even explain why the creature werewolf actually HAS no attacks,) The one you're actually fighting would still be humanoid, and thus affected by all humanoid-affecting spells. But if a normal Detect Animal effect doesn't work on them, I don't know what's up. Maybe the hypothetical invisible werewolves only show up when you are also a werewolf - and maybe they show up on all living creatures whether they're werewolves or not? (Assuming I'm right about invisible werewolves, which is a bit of a stretch.) Unfortunately, I believe that many of the werewolf behaviors are hard-coded into the game, and not visible in any scripts that you can see in the CS. If this is the case, we may never know exactly how things are done in this respect. But one thing I can assure you of with absolute certainty is that there's no "Detect Life" effect. Something else is doing that, but I don't know what. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 00:53, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

(outdent) Turning into a werewolf by using Hircine's Ring, I most definitely can detect NPCs on my mini-map, I'd guess 200 ft range (top of map, center to bottom, right). Tested at Graring's House. This matches what is said here in Quest 7B: Use your human-detecting abilities to find all of them and Quest 8B: Stop the Ristaag -using your 200 feet humanoid detection

and as in the interviews by Ashley Cheng, project lead for Bloodmoon, mentioned above: Of course, you'll have a powerful attack, be able to detect NPCs, and travel very quickly. This ability does not Detect Animal at all, so redirecting as it was previous to my edit to Morrowind:Detect Animal was wrong. This is an inert, always active ability, not a spell; not sure where we list abilities that are not spells, maybe just in a paragraph on the Werewolf page. Further, is it called "Eye of the Wolf" or werewolf vision? --Benould^•T•C 15:19, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

The Detect Animal effect is somehow changed by Bloodmoon. The effect is redefined in the Bloodmoon.esm file (i.e., there is a MGEF record for Detect Animal; the only other MGEF records in Bloodmoon.esm are for Call Wolf, Call Bear, and Summon Bonewolf, so it's not just that standard magical effects are repeated in the .esm file). At first glance, the only difference in the .esm data is in the effect description. The Bloodmoon description is:

The caster of this effect can detect any entity animated by a spirit; they appear on the map as symbols. This effect includes all classes of monsters. The effect's magnitude is the range in feet from the caster that animals are detected.

The default Morrowrind description is:

The caster of this effect can detect any entity animated by a spirit; they appear on the map as symbols. This effect includes all characters and all classes of monsters (creatures, humanoids, elementals, Daedra, undead, artifacts, plants, vampires). The effect's magnitude is the range in feet from the caster that animals are detected.

However, as Lurlock said, most of the real information is not in the .esm file. The real guts of magical effects are hard-wired into the game, making it hard to really work out what is going on.

I'm wondering whether the developers did a slight kludge with the Detect Animal effect. For example, hard-wired the effect so that if the magnitude is set to be larger than 1000 (it's set to 4000 for the Eye of the Wolf spell) then the behaviour of the spell changes from "Detect Animal" to "Detect Life". If should be possible to test the theory on the PC, by seeing what happens as the magnitude of Detect Animal is increased. It would also be interesting to see what a 4000 point Detect Animal effect does if Bloodmoon is not installed. If there is a qualitative change in the effect at some point, and especially one that only occurs if Bloodmoon is installed, then I'm inclined to think that a separate Bloodmoon-specific page for the effect might be warranted. Maybe at Bloodmoon:Detect_Animal -- unless the name "Detect Life" actually is used somewhere in the game -- but explaining what changes and under what conditions.

Finally, some technical answers. The spell's name is "Eye of the Wolf", but its editor ID is "werewolf vision". Its type is set to "Ability" (instead of, for example, "Spells" or "Disease"), which is why it's a constant effect, but it's still technically a spell and is listed in the construction set under spells. For PC players, this means commands such as addspell work on it just like other spells. This information doesn't necessarily answer where it belongs on the site, but internally the difference between an ability and a spell is pretty minor. --Nephele^Talk 17:35, 21 July 2008 (EDT)