Help talk:Images

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Archive 1: Mar 2007 - Jan 2012

Finding Steam screenshots

I used F12 to take a screenshot using Steam, but can't locate the image. I checked the locations listed on the help pages, but some of them are vague ("the installation directory"). It wasn't located in steamapps\common\skyrim. I don't even know how Steam will name them, or what format it will be in. Can someone help me find my image so I can upload it? This is my first time, so nooby details are much appreciated. Thank you. Xyzzy 20:16, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Steam\userdata\43799754\760\remote\72850\screenshots is where mine are stored. The numbers may be different, but you get the idea. Steam names them by date and number taken that day; my first taken today (that I took to check this) was 2012-04-07_00001. Also, once you close out from Skyrim, a window should be set to automatically pop up with the screenshots you took in your last session, with options to delete them or see all shots from the game, and to "show on disk". It'll be in .jpg format. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 20:44, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you Vely. As soon as I posted my question, I closed my browser and Steam, and *poof*, there was the Steam screenshot manager. It gives the option to upload via the manager, but I just followed the help page instructions. Not sure where Steam would upload to. Xyzzy 01:28, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Underwater screenshots

Is there a console command for removing the underwater visual effect for taking screenshots of fish? I can't seem to find one. --Xyzzy 15:18, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Never mind. Found it myself using "help toggle". It's "tws". I will add it to the article. --Xyzzy 15:38, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

How do I delete pictures?

I tried to put a picture (that I took myself) on a page but it was too small, now I'm trying to delete it but how? — Unsigned comment by LoveFPS (talk • contribs) at 07:15 on 27 April 2012(UTC)

I dont think you can, if you want something deleted you can add a proposed for deletion template to it and your reason for wanting it deleted. The template should look something like this. {{prod|reason for deletion}} — Kimi the Elf ^{(talk | contribs)} 07:23, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Kimi's directions are generally the correct way, but for a page or image that you uploaded yourself and that's unused anywhere else, you can use a Speedy Deletion instead of a Proposed Deletion. That would look like this: {{speed|reason for deletion}}. Just go to the image page, edit it, and place that template at the top, and an Admin will come by shortly to delete it. – Robin Hood↝talk 10:25, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Weather formids

Does anyone have more details on the weather codes in Skyrim? The suggestion in the tips section on the page gives a code for a "clear weather type" in Skyrim, but this will, for example, make a bright sunny day in Winterhold, which results in images that strike me as incongruent with the game world. The table under "force weather" on the Console page shows several types of "clear" weather marked by various codes that I can't figure out. I put one in randomly on one occasion, and got a suitably bright, clear photo that maintained consistency with the region. I wonder if there's one that yields a "clear weather type typical for your current location". --JR^{Talk E-mail} 03:03, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

There might be some codes involved with the Clear Skies shout that keep it region based, just guessing. The Silencer has spoken^Talk 03:24, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

It sounds like a good guess. I'll experiment. --J "I have been silenced" R^{Talk E-mail}

Looking around in the Creation Kit, the weather system is stupendously complex. Based on the comments in the CK, one thing I can certainly shed light on here is that yes, Clear Skies picks its weather based on the specific region you're in. I have no concrete details other than that, though, as it calls on code in the executable itself—it's not something visible in the CK. Still, we know it's based on the climate and/or region data, and based on the names in the Creation Kit, we can make some guesses.

To use the previous example of Winterhold, the only weather type I see defined for Winterhold is SkyrimStormSnow (for those with the CK, this is found in the World menu, Regions, then search for WeatherWinterhold), which matches what we see in-game...it's always snowing there. Out of curiosity, does Clear Skies do anything there? My first suspicion would be that it doesn't, but there is a Winterhold-specific weather type with no precipitation listed in the CK (FXWthrInvertWindowsWinterhold, FormID: 0010DA13), so it's possible that through whatever algorithm it's using, Clear Skies is selecting that weather type when cast.

Summing up, I can't tell you what, specifically, the weather would be in any given location, but you're right that there are regional variations of what's considered to be clear weather. It's not as simple as always using the one suggested on the page.

Oh and as far as figuring out the weather codes, even without the CK, your guess is almost as good as mine. The names listed on the Console page suggest what to expect, and the CK data really only gives you a slightly more specific idea than that. The best way to find out is probably just to punch the code to the left of a promising-sounding name into the console (e.g., fw 0010da13 for the aforementioned FXWthrInvertWindowsWinterhold) and see what effect you get. – Robin Hood↝talk 22:15, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

ENB and Graphic Modifying Plug ins

Am i allowed to put pictures with extra ENB effects that make the game look nicer (SSAO, DOF) or Mods that improve graphics such as Realistic Lighting and URWL and Texture improving mods (like Skyrim HD or 2k textures) or screenshots they must be 100% Vanilla? — Unsigned comment by 41.254.0.251 (talk) at 17:55 on July 16, 2012

You are allowed to upload such images, but please note what visual-changing mods you are using in the image's summary. Additionally, such images will very likely not be used in actual articles unless the effect is minor and there are no decent vanilla screenshots for the subject. We prefer to have all our articles' images with vanilla graphics and effects. The main use for images taken with such mods is probably userpage decoration. Vely^►t►e 03:48, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

"Improving Screenshots" Section

I tried to improve this section with some rewording. I guess the graphic should be wider, so that the lengthy caption does not make it too tall and awkward-looking. Don't know how to do it myself. --JR (talk) 02:39, 27 October 2012 (GMT)

I generally dislike forcing something to be wider than someone's thumbnail preference, but in this case, I think you have a point. I made it 300px, which seems about right and shouldn't bother the formatting too much even on narrower screens. – Robin Hood↝talk 04:09, 27 October 2012 (GMT)

Captions and Concluding Punctuation

I am moving my response to this topic from the Community Portal (== Image Caption Standards ==) 8 Dec 2012, due to its length, and because Legoless didn't intend to raise a big/heated issue.

Respectfully, I would object. Legoless, I don't see how your proposal is "based on that discussion." The discussion involves 1) Lord Eydvar stating that he was frequently corrected by people who added punctuation to his captions, and so concluded that punctuating them was our policy or standard practice; 2) Psylocke stating that "plenty of patrollers" remove such punctuation; 3) ABCface deftly describing the actual grammar standard (end sentences in captions with punctuation); 4) Me asking if that (punctuating caption sentences) can be specified in our policies, since it is not; 5) Br3admax pointing to an old CP discussion that is related but (to my eyes) inconclusive; 6) ABCface reiterating that it is correct to punctuate full sentences, but not fragments, in captions and suggesting it be codified in our policy; 7) Psylocke agreeing and suggesting that "that" (ABCface's view that sentences be punctuated!) be added to a particular place.

How then, is your action based on that? (Note that I am not challenging you for making the change and asking for input! I am just observing that such a move doesn't, by my lights, follow from the discussion.)

Although I am quite far on the "progressive"/"descriptivist" end of the grammar spectrum (I believe in a good deal of grammatical flexibility, see language as an evolving thing, and believe grammar serves more to describe language than to prescribe it). However, when a convention is universally held (at least to my knowledge, which, in this particular area is extensive) among experts and professionals, why disregard it if we are then not free to disregard any or all of them? (Why, for example, end sentences in the bodies of articles with punctuation?) I ask that not to be a smartass, but to make a point in earnest: Where experts and professionals all agree, then expectations are justifiably defined. Some people will simply recognize unpunctuated sentences as mistakes, whether in captions or elsewhere.

It's obvious to me that there is no official specific wiki policy nor currently any widely-held standard or practice with respect to the issue, despite Psylocke's apparent confusion on that matter. I'm rather certain that the grammar standard, however, is uncontroversial among any of the recognized grammar or style "authorities", and among professional writers, editors, or publishers, particularly technical writers, scholarly article/science writers, non-fiction writers, and journalists. I simply know this, because I am an English teacher (and while a good number of my fellow English teachers are ill-informed about many aspects of grammar, I used to teach writing at Columbia University, where there are still plenty of dummies, but where you ultimately have to know because there are also plenty of smarties). I edit articles for scientific journals, have worked as the managing editor of a newspaper, and am a published author of a scholarly work in health care economics. (And certified in CPR.) It is also policy on Wikipedia. Admittedly, we have no formal policy saying that we follow their style, but it does seem to have a tradition of being cited as a "default" except where exceptions are specified. I mention it mainly because it was raised above, and because it is simply one more "authority" on what's correct. Fundamentally, it is simple: Captions that comprise or include a grammatical sentence receive end punctuation for each sentence and for each sentence fragment. A sentence fragment alone does not.

This is very commonly misunderstood by many others, even very well-read, highly educated, and literary-minded people. The major reason that we may be confused about this is that few of us encounter a specific need to explicitly learn it. We may simply notice, consciously or not, that many captions are not capitalized without registering that they are sentence fragments, and then erroneously generalize to conclude that "no punctuation for captions" is a rule or a free stylistic choice. A close second reason involves the question, What is a sentence? That is very well answered here, I think. And for those of us who enjoy tidying-up or "getting it right" as much as we can when we contribute, it is not very much to learn. For example, "Danger!" is a sentence because it is an exclamation, (and thus the current caption for the header image in Dragon Rising is grammatical). "Sure." can be a sentence although it lacks the classic subject and predicate (normally including a finite verb) that conventionally defines a sentence in middle-school English classes—it is a minor sentence. "What?" is a sentence because it is an interrogatory. "Leave." is a sentence though it has no explicit subject, because it is an imperative. Ultimately, what is and is not a sentence will get into a gray area. There is a grammatical concept called "ellipsis" which allows for grammatical elements to be left out in some circumstances when they can reasonably be "understood" to "be there". Thus, "No." can be a sentence when it is preceded, for example, by "Do you like grammar?" because it is understood that the required subject and verb are implied to be there: "No, I don't like grammar." So, we must at some point let go of the idea that there is "one" grammar that governs authoritatively. Language is a nearly-infinitely complex, squishy, mutating thing, and we simply cannot "cover" it completely with an orderly set of rules. They don't teach us that in elementary school, and it's a difficult idea to really grasp, accept, and hold. But it's true.

I think that editors who are not grammar/style wonks can do fine with "punctuate captions if they are or contain a sentence". Exceptions can be handled by those of us who are.

Legoless, I honestly think your OCD would be even less happy with your seemingly user-friendly proposal once you will now begin to notice that captions in all other "professional/respected" publications follow these rules. (If there's an exception, I'd love to see it.) Why should our wiki be inconsistent with that? In fact, your proposal is more fraught with inconsistencies than is following the standard. For example: Why punctuate quoted text in captions in particular? Why punctuate the middle parts of a caption (with commas, for example), but not the ends? Why omit periods in captions, but retain question marks and exclamation marks? Why punctuate captions that have more than one sentence, but not punctuate captions that are a single sentence (like the caption here)? I humbly suggest that the consistency you seem to seek in your proposal is a mirage. A more cohesive and durable consistency can be found in this: Sentences have a punctuation mark at the end. Consistency can be found with the punctuation of captions in (I believe) any publication you look at, as long as it is a "professional" or prestigious one, with highly-trained writers and editors. And if you/some enjoy correcting things by removing end punctuation from captions, I suspect you can enjoy adding it where needed just as much?

I'd ask to stick to the widely acknowledged grammar convention, and ask for a consensus if we are to depart from it on this particular issue. With regard to using initial capitals for important words in article/page titles, we have a different story. Many publications that tend to be linguistically conservative/traditional still capitalize articles (see the headline style of The New York Times, while more and more "progressive/modern" publications, like Wikipedia and The Washington Post capitalize only the initial words of headlines). We also depart from mainstream grammar in using (or at least preferring) "logical quotation marks", but there we follow Wikipedia and such publications as the prestigious Language, (the journal of the Linguistic Society of North America). (By the way, that journal puts periods on the ends of figure captions even if they are not sentences as generally defined; see the figure captions in one of their articles.) My point is, as far as I know, this would put us out completely on our own, and so, I think serious readers who happen to be knowledgeable on the issue, would simply see unpunctuated sentences as mistakes, not as a stylistic choice. No, please.

If we do decide on following the widely held standard, I would be happy to draft a proposed clarifying guideline. --JR (talk) 22:41, 9 December 2012 (GMT)

I think we have enough input to try for a consensus. I will suggest that we essentially follow WP's guidelines. Captions that contain one or more full sentences receive end punctuation for each such sentence and for any additional fragments. Captions that are not full sentences receive no end punctuation, unless it serves a compelling purpose (e.g., one word with an exclamation mark or question mark may be appropriate). A minor remaining issue is formatting captions. WP says basically to format captions as normal text. Since we italicize quotes in "normal text" on the wiki, I think quotes in captions should also be italicized. I have no problem with bolding the caption for featured images, and if that's not an issue for anyone, I'll just propose formalizing that it be capitalized. So, to come: Proposed language for the Help:Images page, perhaps with a link from the spelling page. I aim for about two weeks, unless there comes further input. Note that my intended next action is still to propose policy, not yet amend it. --JR (talk) 01:56, 24 January 2013 (GMT)

Getting Current locationid / location names

If my character is in an unmarked location, how can I use the console to obtain information on the current location, and what kind of info is available: locationid Location name(s)? --JR (talk) 12:08, 8 January 2013 (GMT)

Proposed Revisions to "Renaming Images" section of page;

See the CP discussion

If there's no objection, this language, as corrected and amended, will be moved to replace the "Renaming Images" sectin of the Help:Images page.

This change would allow all autoconfirmed users to move images and speedy request deletions.

If we decide to move it forward, there should be a modification to the deletion policy page, as well. --JR (talk) 21:27, 19 January 2013 (GMT)

Consensus assumed, section revised. --JR (talk) 17:58, 30 January 2013 (GMT)

PS3 Screenshots

Does anyone anyone know how I can take screenshots with the PS3 if possible? I am interested in taking screenshots and uploading them if they're any good on occasion. --Jake-518 (talk) 06:52, 1 February 2013 (GMT)

Jake, I am to a PS3 user. You can indeed take screenshots, but with my method, they are of low quality and images over long distances are very blurry and almost unrecognisable. To do this, find the place you want to take an image of. Get it the right way you want it, and then save. Load the save onto a USB and insert it onto your PC. Go into the folder named PS3 or something, then go to the folder that is Skyrim etc. Find the save image then copy it onto your desktop. I haven't tested this method for TES 4 Oblivion, but it works for Skyrim. - Chez ^{talk • email} 07:01, 1 February 2013 (GMT)

I see. Thanks Chezburgar! --Jake-518 (talk) 07:11, 1 February 2013 (GMT)

No problem Jake! I apologize if the method is confusing. I'm not the best at explaining things. I recommend not using the images you take on the UESP, and only for personal use, because as I said, they are of low quality and will be replaced soon after. But have fun! - Chez ^{talk • email} 07:16, 1 February 2013 (GMT)

Resolution

It seems that we may have, in at least some quarters, an unofficial policy about minimum acceptable/ideal image resolutions. Is that so, if so, waht is it? I don't even understand resolution, except that axb is a pixels in distance by b pixels in distance. I don't really understand what it has to do with something like "density" or amount of data packed into an area. Let's get this on the policy page if we are going to be replacing people's images (especially new people who are eager to help out acquiring badly-needed images. --JR (talk) 12:44, 7 February 2013 (GMT)

Pointing Readers to "Image Requests"

I amended the page here, assuming it is uncontroversial. If that's not the case, revert and/or discuss. --JR (talk) 06:45, 13 February 2013 (GMT)

Story Images

In my relatively short time here on the UESP so far, I have seen numerous debates over what I would call "supplementary NPC images", those that aren't the primary image on an NPC page. There was one such debate recently (sorry, I can't remember where, to link to it) about a Quest Image being used as a supplementary image on an NPC page, and whether it should therefore be renamed and resized or not. I'm pretty sure that debate was resolved at that time, but I can't recall what the solution was.

I've just come across a rename request for this image, and got into a discussion with Kimi the Elf over it. My suggestion, from that discussion, is that the classification of "Story Images" should be codified better in the Image Guidelines to overcome such problems in the future. It seems that we already have categories for "Story Images", so why not codify them with their own naming convention and aspect ratio requirements (including a "no requirement" requirement) in the Image Guidelines? – Daric↝talk 22:41, 21 March 2013 (GMT)

Categories vs Filenames

In the section defining the image naming conventions a list of categories are provided which include: exterior, interior, quests and story. When I look at the names provided for the images associated with those categories, I see NPC, Place, Interior, Quest somewhat mixed within the categories. I realize some of this is a need to rename some images or create duplicates with different contexts.

My questions is why Place is used as part of an image name at all. I would interpret Place as a wiki page category which might contain images that are both interior and exterior views of the location. Places that are not accessible structures would be exterior-only, but when possible descriptions of a location should contain as many points of view as required to provide useful information to the reader/player.

When is a story not a quest? Offhand I would assume all stories would be citations from prose in books read in the course of the game. If that is not the intent of the story images, would it not be more consistent to call them all quest images? Normally there is general content a player can access by freely wandering the environment/world and then there is quest/instance specific content that is only accessible if certain requirements are met. Is that the same distinction/definition expected here? Igor van Dame (talk) 05:24, 22 April 2013 (GMT)

Story images are for NPC pages, they tell the story of that NPC. While a place image is a picture from the outside of a place, it is not a picture of the exterior, there is a subtle difference detectable through the focus of the image. An exterior shot is something that documents a view of a place, while a place image is trying to show you what the architect wants you to see when they designed it. Take Jorrvaskr for instance, the architect wants you to see a grand building with a sculpted roof, while an exterior shot from the Skyforge shows that the roof is in fact the bottom of a boat. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 17:44, 22 April 2013 (GMT)

Two Images next to each other

Is there a possibility to place two images next to each other (I mean, one image direct left of an |thumb|right - Image)? SarthesArai (talk) 14:43, 12 May 2013 (GMT)

Yes, either by manually placing them in a hidden table, or using the Multiple images template with horizontal direction. --Roger (talk) 15:05, 12 May 2013 (GMT)