Lore talk:Elder Scrolls
Why does this page refer to the Elder Scrolls as "Aedric" when one of it's own references, Lost Histories of Tamriel, calls that a inappropriate appellation, and Pension of the Ancestor moth claims the scrolls as being above the Aedra and Daedra themselves? I mean yes, there are people in tamriel that would mistakenly refer to the scrolls as Aedric, but there's no point in this article intentionally spreading a misnomer.220.127.116.11 09:53, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
- The text you cite as saying it is not Aedric directly says "In an earlier volume I discussed the vagaries and influences of the Aedric prophesies, more commonly known as the Elder Scrolls." Even that author says they are called Aedric, as named by Therin.
- As we don't have the chapters 23 through 27 that he references for his explanation of the wrong appellation, we can't know anything past the fact that a very few people share the thought that they are not Aedric, while the rest of Tamriel appears to think they are so. Neither is there an explanation as to why the Pension of the Ancestor Moth claims them as being above.
- We don't know how much in these books is fact, nor do we have much evidence showing it to be a misnomer. Removing the adjective "Aedric" might be a good idea due to such confusion, but I don't think it should be explicitly stated that the Scrolls are not Aedric. --Velyanthe 19:53, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not saying it should be explicitly labelled as not Aedric (we don't know the origin of the scrolls), but the article as it stands declares them to be Aedric in nature. This is in spite of the fact that the only source that does mention this term disputes it's very accuracy, and the credentials of the very guy who came up with the term. Also, I would dispute the idea that the rest of Tamriel thinks they are Aedric. According to Lost Histories of Tamriel, "Elder Scrolls" is the more common term, and we know from skyrim that it (that is, the term "elder scrolls") is a term that dates back to the dragon war. Therin is obviously contemporary with the writer of Lost Histories, so his choice of terminology (calling them Aedric prophecies) can't have had universal penetration in the Tamrielic psyche at the time of writing. The lack of the phrase "Aedric Prophecies" in other works would also imply that the term saw very little penetration in Tamriel. The fact that the principal handlers of the scrolls believe them to be above Daedra and Aedra is simply another indicator that Lost Histories is basically correct in labeling "Aedric Prophecies" as an incorrect appellation.
- Also, we have a simple proof of what the Ancestor moth cult meant by the scrolls being above the gods, when you consider that Nocturnal's curse on the Grey Cowl could not prevent an Elder scroll from exposing Dareloth's identity as the original thief of the cowl.18.104.22.168 21:04, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
 Trying to Reference
So some of the books that were provided are not actually used in the article ( Ruminations on the Elder Scrolls, Divining the Elder Scolls ) so should I A: delete them or B: incorporate them?--J'ZhirrthePriest 23:30, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
- If at all possible, I'd say to incorporate them. Otherwise, put them under the heading "See Also". --Velyanthe►Talk►Email 23:43, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
- Will do--J'ZhirrthePriest 23:47, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Okay I cited all of them but I somehow did it wrong, help --J'ZhirrthePriest 00:12, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
- I fixed it for you. You messed up the book names on two (Tameriel instead of Tamriel, and of instead of on), and you used the Cite Book template on a third instead of the Cite book template--capital letters are important. You were correct in your use, it was just spelling/capitalization mistakes. --Velyanthe►Talk►Email 00:19, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
- Thank you :) sometimes I just need to step away and come back with a fresh look. Ill get the hang of it --J'ZhirrthePriest 21:07, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
 Moved Paragraph
- "The Elder Scrolls do more than simply record history and make prophecies about the future. In fact, for those who know how to use them, they are some of the most powerful artifacts in the Elder Scrolls universe. Some things, besides prophecies, that Elder Scrolls have been used for include... banishing Alduin to many years in the future, separating the Gray Cowl of Nocturnal from its Nocturnal curse in the year 3E 433 (essentially meaning that Elder Scrolls are more powerful than Daedric Princes), and time-traveling back to the moment when Alduin was banished so that the time-traveler could learn Dragonrend."
I've moved this paragraph off the article. While this information needs to be added at some point, the paragraph is poorly written when compared to the high standards in lorespace. In short, a lot more research needs to be done before attempting to expand the article beyond the basics. --Legoless 00:24, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
 Dexion Evicus
I was talking to Dexion Evicus between obtaining Valerica's Elder Scroll and setting out to find the one in Blackreach. I asked him about the scroll I still had to find, and he commented that he'd normally send me to the Imperial City to talk to someone at the library, but that such was no longer an option. My only option was to ask him why this was the case, to which he replied "The Elder Scrolls vanished from the Imperial City around 175 of this era and have been scattered across Tamriel by forces unknown." I don't recall if there was more to what he said about this event, but in any case I added this information to the article, at the end of the first paragraph; I also added it to the Fourth Era, Second Century timeline article. He did go on to suggest asking at the College of Winterhold, like everyone else suggests. Deadlykris (talk) 04:03, 19 September 2012 (GMT)
- If anyone is curious, the line is: "The Elder Scrolls vanished from the Imperial City around 175 of this era and have been scattered across Tamriel by forces unknown." • JAT 03:45, 22 September 2012 (GMT)
 Allegory of the Cave Reference
It seems that the Elder Scrolls themselve are, to some extent, a reference to Plato's Allegory of the Cave, a metaphysical allegory about our world and its relation to the absolute truth. The working of the Elder Scrolls seems to refer to rhis allegory; First off, the Scrolls contain absolute knowledge about events past, happening and coming. The outside in Plato's myth is also the absolute truth (or an allegory for this). Furthermore, the book Effects of the Elder Scrolls states that the untrained eye will be struck blind once he casts a look on a Scroll, much like the helpless soul in Plato's story, who, after exiting the cave for the first time, will be blinded by the light of the sun (truth). Only the traint eye can look for longer at the Scrolls. Lastly, the Blind Moth priests, the only ones who can truly study the scrolls, turn blind after years of service. In Plato's myth, the highest knowledge, that of good and bad, is visualised as the sun, and one who looks into the sun for too long will go blind.