Lore talk:House Telvanni

Telvanni and Magic

Does Great House Telvanni really want to have a monopoly on magic? I seem to recall a quest for them where you're supposed to convince Redoran to get rid of the monopoly the Mages Guild had. Granted, I know that it can be a political move in the hopes of having a monopoly to themselves, but it seems the Mages Guild wants it more than Telvanni does. Furthermore, the Mages Guild seems intent on keeping it. - Organous 19:00, 3 November 2006 (EST)

Knowing the Telvanni, the only time they really respect others is when they need the others to give them something. I'd say they definitely want a monoploy on magic, and probably on power as well. --Ratwar 19:02, 3 November 2006 (EST)

I don't think that's the case. The Telvanni do not seem so interested in global/political power as they are personal power. The central theme behind them seems to be "leave us alone, and if you've got something I want, give it to me." It seems that the Telvanni want individual power and physical possessions (books, artifacts, etc.), not so much about control. Come to think of it, the Telvanni don't even show respect when they want something. They just up and take it. Organous 23:05, 3 November 2006 (EST)

Ahh, but to achieve great personal power, you must achieve both global and political power. In fact, the Telvanni are deploying bands of colonists to slowly expaned their power (ask people about latest rumors, especially in Molag Mar). You are very correct that personal power is highly prized by the Telvanni, but Personal Power can be increased by global and political power. The Telvanni realize this, and while they choose not to focus on political power (which is Hlaalu's area), expansion is on their mind. Master Aryon is the leader of this movement. --Ratwar 23:26, 3 November 2006 (EST)

In the first place, the latest rumors you refer to lead me to a group of pilgrims east of Lake Nabia and northwest of Mount Kand. I eventually found what it was talking about, but only after looking at the official guide. I wouldn't have even known they were Telvanni if it didn't say so right there, and it says they're rogue Telvanni at that. That doesn't sound like they were deployed. -- Organous 14:06, 5 November 2006, edited 14:55, 5 November 2006 (EST)

Now, as for their monopoly thing, I think that's reaching for straws. Any group is always going to try expanding. I'm hesitant to really count the quests where you kill the owners of opposing strongholds, since it's just something the player experiences in all 3 houses the same way. I think Telvanni might be pleased if they had a monopoly, but only as far as anyone with something to market would be. The Mages Guild seems far more interested in maintaining their monopoly than Telvanni is in gaining one.

I have not seen any evidence to suggest Telvanni wants a monopoly. The evidence you have shown so far seems to be based on interpretation, philosophy (which, though perhaps true, doesn't seem to be shared by Telvanni), and/or facts I have not been able to verify. My point is that it really doesn't seem to me like they want it, which means the entry should be changed to reflect this. Since you feel so strongly that they do, though, something along the lines of "they may have an interest" would work just as well. It shows that they could be interested in having a magic monopoly, but does not suggest strong evidence. -- Organous 14:06, 5 November 2006 (EST)

Well, I don't see Redoran attempting to expand, but I do see your point about any group attempting to expand. I really don't understand how you can say that the Telvanni don't want the Mages Guild out of Morrowind (and thus have a monoploy on magical power in Morrowind). They are strongly anti-foreigner as their requirement for a special pass for foreigners to enter Sadrith Mora, even if this policy isn't enforced. Since the Mage's Guild is Imperial, they naturally want them out of Morrowind. As for saying, "they may have an interest", the article already says, "would rather", which doesn't mean they are activily seeking such a monoploy. --Ratwar 15:03, 5 November 2006 (EST)

What characterizes the Telvanni leaders is their individuality and eccentricity. I seem to recall that Telvanni Mages take issue with common people having access to any higher magic. Knowledge is power, and knowledge is not to be shared. Master Aryon is the most liberal of the group and it is he who sets the task to break the Mages Guild monopoly, there doesn't seem to be any general mandate to do so. In regards to Tevanni being an expansionist faction, again it seems there is no common strategy to do so. If you consider that most Mage Lords are many centuries old and not about to give up their positions, it is not surprising that up-and-coming Telvanni seek remote towers to claim their own. Even the stronghold's Tel Uvirith position speaks for this. There just isn't much of a succession of power. -Benould^•T•C 03:01, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

(←) After going through the dialogue, at no point do the Telvanni ever express interest in a monopoly. While it could be reasoned that they would want one, it would be an extrapolation. The argument could also be made that is it even necessary to mention that they would prefer a monopoly? Personally, I'm sure they would like a monopoly on magic as much as the Hlaalu would like to have a monopoly on trade and that the Redoran would like to have a monopoly on training weapon skills. In fact, I'm sure every faction would like to have a monopoly on whatever their focus is, as well as every merchant in the game, for that matter. What is expressed is the Telvanni's issue with the Mages Guild monopoly on magic and the Telvanni's desire to see it broken. The Mages Guild has a quest to kill someone else for teaching magic, recruit a Telvanni or kill him, and another to kill all of the Telvanni councilors, all to maintain the monopoly. There is simply no Telvanni equivalent to any of these quests outside of mod created ones, and as I'm writing this I'm noticing that the Mages Guild seems more ruthless than the Telvanni are portrayed as being. Regardless, it simply isn't said that the Telvanni want a monopoly, and the mention in the article has been removed. Peterpeterohsofeeter 02:52, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

As a post post thought, it should be remembered that we are talking about the mentality of the house and not individual members. While one would assume there would be Mages Guild members that would not approve of the Guild's rigid enforcement of the monopoly, the mentality of the Guild is that it should exist. Similarly, while one would assume that there would be Telvanni members that would like to see a Telvanni monopoly on magic, it is not stated that that is the mentality of the house. Peterpeterohsofeeter 03:01, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Improvement

This article could do with some serious improvement. I have added sections on slavery and have expanded the existing paragraphs. (HMSVictory 15:59, 6 November 2007 (EST))

I have been reduced to answering my own comment here! Anyway, I have drastically improved the template itself, correcting grammar, expanding the used vocabulary and adding in new lines. I hope the process will continue, even id I am the only onw operating it. (HMSVictory 11:58, 21 November 2007 (EST))

Lymdrenn Tenvanni's Journal / Brand-Shei's life??

It seems like the last paragraph of this page is mostly paraphrasing this journal, so shouldn't the citation be from the journal, and not given the obscure reference of 'events from skyrim' since it is clearly coming from a specific textual source. Another thing is that the author of this journal is only making speculations about the "fall of house telvanni" and about Brandyl being the "sole living heir of house telvanni" its entirely possible (and very likely) that other Telvanni or 'telvanni heirs' did survive the Black Marsh invasion, because she did not witness the event in its entirety. Also, is it really necessary to go into details about Brand-shei's life? it seems like the article ends in somewhat of a tangent that isnt important House Telvanni's history (i.e. taken in by argonians, settled down in riften, found his lineage, being framed by the thieves' guild). Unless brand-shei does anything to affect the state of House Telvanni in itself, then his life is completely irrelevent to the House Telvanni page. He lived his life mostly as an argornian rather than a Telvanni. Hope 19:04, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

I agree with everything you've written there. It looks to me like the article should end after the story of the ship being wrecked, possibly with a general mention of survivors. Certainly nothing specific. rpeh •T•C•E• 19:18, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't know how to cite the book when it is under Skyrim:Books section and not under Lore.. Hope 19:35, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

"By this account, a single heir of the house survived: Brandyl Tenvanni, son of Lymdrenn Tenvanni, who was found as an infant by Argonians." The last names are 'Tenvanni' should it not be 'Telvanni'? — Unsigned comment by 94.192.117.134 (talk) at 19:04 on 11 October 2012

If you're asking if it's a typo, it's not clear. If you're asking if we should correct it, no. They refer to House Telvanni correctly, suggesting that it was not a mistake. Names change over time; my own family's surname has changed at least a half-dozen times in as many centuries. All it takes is one person who, intentionally or not, starts spelling it differently, and it just sort of sticks. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 19:29, 11 October 2012 (GMT)

Other Survivors

I don't think Brand Shei is the only heir to the house. I recall one of the apprentice Mages in the college of Winterhold, the Dunmer female one, I don't remember her name, but I do believe she said she was from house Telvanni, and that she had come to the college like the rest of her house to become a better wizard, and that Winterhold used to be full of Dunmer Emzi43 17:02, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Nevermind, her name is brelyna maryon and, since there is another dunmer with maryon as a last anme in morrowind, in house telvanni, she probably has ties to the house but is not a telvanni Emzi43 19:04, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

I guess it would help if we defined 'heir to house telvanni' lol. I do think she is intended to be of telvanni ancestory which could mean an heir I guess.. We aren't even sure what that means in terms of Brand Shei either though Hope 07:56, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

"Focusing" on Telvanni

It is unlikely that the Argonians focused on defeating the Telvanni during their invasion of Morrowind. The quote "revenge for one thousand years of slavery" (or something like that) probably refers to the entirety of Morrowind, not just the Telvanni - the most prolific slavers are the Dres, who resided near the Argonian border. It is most likely that they were wiped out first and the Argonians battled onwards until they reached the Telvanni lands, which were probably some of the last to be taken due to their remote position. — Unsigned comment by 194.116.198.185 (talk) at 11:45 on 21 June 2012 (GMT)

I agree with you, because at this point there is no reference for that statement. It seems like a conjecture based on the fact that we only have lore from the Telvanni perspective. But we obviously don't know the extent of the Argonian uprising, unless there is other available lore that hasn't been mentioned. It certainly doesn't add anything useful to the article in its present state.Hope 20:12, 23 June 2012 (UTC)