Lore talk:Mephala

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[edit] Mephala a hermaphrodite?

A hermaphrodite is not a demonic entity capable of shape-shifting; it's a person born with both male and female genitalia. Unless it's stated in-game and in proper context that he/she is a hermaphrodite, this needs to be changed/removed. 68.166.69.23 01:36, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Good point. I agree that 'hermaphrodite' is probably not the correct word in this instance, but I don't know how better to describe Mephala. So I've requested verification, to see if anybody has any better ideas, or any arguments as to why 'hermaphrodite' is the correct term.--Gaebrial 03:52, 8 November 2007 (EST)

Technically, none of the Daedra Princes have gender as we know it. Most of them appear to us as one gender or another, but that is by choice on their part. Just because Sheogorath always appears male and Azura always appears female doesn't mean they actually ARE male or female. Mephala happens to be one of those who has appeared as both genders. The proper term would be "genderless". Mephala is not a hermaphrodite, which implies both genders, but is rather neither gender, and just chooses one or the other for appearance for reasons unknown to mortals. Oh, it should also be noted that Daedra are not "demonic entities", nor can they "shape-shift". They are non-corporeal beings which can appear in any form they choose, which is not at all the same thing as shape-shifting. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 10:16, 8 November 2007 (EST)

I agree with the term "genderless". --Mankar Camoran^{•T•C•E•} 10:22, 8 November 2007 (EST)

By the way, Lurlock's explanation is really good. I agree with everything he has said here. --Mankar Camoran^{•T•C•E•} 10:28, 8 November 2007 (EST)

I've rewritten the note. Opinions?--Gaebrial 12:08, 8 November 2007 (EST)

Only thing I'd change is that we should be consistant with our use of indefinite pronouns - either "s/he" or "he/she", not both. It's too bad English doesn't really have a gender-neutral pronoun for use in cases like this. The best we have is "it", which implies de-personification. It might be better to rephraes things to avoid using pronouns altogether, either by just saying "Mephala" all the time, or by combining sentences to avoid having to use a pronoun. E.g.: If you had something like: "Mephala is a Daedric Prince. She is sometimes known as the Webspinner. Her sphere is obscured to mortals.", you'd change it to "Mephala is a Daedric Prince who is sometimes known as the Webspinner, and whose sphere is obscured to mortals". Just an example, not actually in the article, but you can see what I mean. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 12:52, 8 November 2007 (EST)

I agree with you again. It is definitely better to be consistent. I think just saying Mephala all the time is better in this case. --Mankar Camoran^{•T•C•E•} 14:35, 8 November 2007 (EST)

Like that?--Gaebrial 02:28, 9 November 2007 (EST)

This looks perfect. --Mankar Camoran^{•T•C•E•} 05:50, 9 November 2007 (EST)

[edit] Leader of the Dark Brotherhood?

The page says that The Night Mother is an Agent of Mephala, so Mephala directly leads the Dark Brotherhood, and I was just wondering where this information was found. It seems inconclusive, but if there is some in game source I would definitely like to read about it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.13.229.210 (talk • contribs).

That is incorrect. Mephala is the Daedric Prince that is worshipped in the Morag Tong, not the Dark Brotherhood. The Dark Brotherhood worships Sithis (the Dread Father) and the Night Mother. --Xyntfos 23:29, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

That is what I thought... I feel like the page ought to be changed then. But I really dont' know how to change stuff. =\ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.13.229.210 (talk • contribs).

Changed it. Thanks for pointing that one out. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 01:16, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

There are strong arguments that the DB is delusional in worshiping Sithis, a non-sentient force rather than a being, nothingness/limiting, ying-yang with Anu really, and that it is really Mephala that tricks them to murder for her. One can even argue that an aspect of Mephala is the Nightmother, the Morag Tong quest in MW none withstanding. Mephala likes murder, the DB murders, the MT murder, and Sithis doesn't care. See this debate for example. --Benould^•T•C 02:06, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

To quote the OB book about the two organizations: "The Night Mother, my dear friend, is Mephala. The Dark Brotherhood of the west, unfettered by the orders of the Tribunal, continue to worship Mephala. They may not call her by her name, but the daedra of murder, sex, and secrets is their leader still." --Benould^•T•C 21:52, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

I'm considering either removing this part or adding in something about it being false. The Night Mother is shown to have been a mortal person at one point, not an alias of Mephala. 173.66.234.111 02:05, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually, the series already shows that Gods are willing and able to use mortal alias' or avatars, just look at Tiber Septim's appearance in Morrowind, Wulf, who was mortal. It's entirely possible that Mephala has been behind every incarnation of the Night Mother since the Dark Brotherhood split from the Morag Tong, but has using mortal shells to encourage the deception (It certainly fits her style, that's for sure). Besides, the entire line refences the concept as a theory supported by some scholars, which is supported in-game by the book Benould pointed out above, Fire and Darkness. Dlarsh^{(Talk,Contribs,E-mail)} 02:37, 16 October 2009 (UTC)