Morrowind talk:Level

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Contents 1 New Page 2 Just wondering... 3 Multipliers 4 Misc skill caps 5 Raising skills that are already at 100. 6 Hints Page 7 Read before Revert

[edit] New Page

I was very surprised that this page didn't exist. I really hope I didn't just overlook an existing page and do all that work for nothing. Anyway, as you can see, there are a few bits here and there that I couldn't really state unequivocally off the top of my head. Anyone who can confirm the truth on these matters, please feel free to remove those ugly "verification needed" templates:

• The ranges of skill increases for each attribute multiplier. I assumed they were the same as for Oblivion, but I haven't tested.
• What actually happens when you take twenty major/minor increases in one level? I believe you gain two levels in one sleep, and that the second level has no multipliers, but again I haven't tested.
• When you choose to increase Endurance, is the increase of Health based on the Endurance value before the level or after it? Is the 10% rounded down, or rounded "naturally"?

Of course, I look forward to any other improvements as well. I'm going to want to touch up some other basic pages, like Classes, Attributes, and Skills, to work in links to this page, but I'll hold off for a moment just in case anyone thinks this page needs a different name. --TheNicestGuy 00:47, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Yeah, so I ran the article by my girlfriend, who's played Morrowind years longer than I have, and I guess I was pretty wrong about some of the basics. Now it should really describe how leveling works, but I'd still love to get some amens, since it would take me forever to empirically confirm the entire model. (Unless anyone knows how to use the console to get instant skill increases that will actually affect level progress and attribute multipliers? Didn't seem to work that way when I tried it...) Also, all three questions above still need answering. --TheNicestGuy 20:51, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Wouldn't you know it? I did some testing; my girlfriend was wrong, and I was pretty close to right originally. (No gloating allowed, though. She's also been playing with knives years longer than I have.) I merged the previous two revisions so the article now reflects mostly things I've actually verified through play. Including the behavior when you sleep if your progress-to-next-level is 20/10 or higher. (Only one level is taken at a time, but if you immediately sleep again, your second level is completely without multipliers.)

For the record, I finally figured out how to use the console to seriously speed up the testing of leveling behavior. Although I still don't know if or how the console can hand out arbitrary skill increases and have them count toward a level, obviously the console can easily hand out as much gold as you like. Then just find some good trainers and go to school. You still have to abide by their maximums, and the restriction on training higher than your governing attribute, but it can be a huge time-saver nonetheless. I need time-savers when I spend so much time talking to myself... --TheNicestGuy 09:49, 3 January 2008 (EST)

I can answer or clarify a number of the points, based on my experience.

• The multipliers are: 1-4 = x2, 5-7 = x3, 8-9 = x4, 10+ = x5.

• You don't have to rest in a bed. You just have to rest as opposed to wait.

• Although miscellaneous skill increases don't contribute to your level-up progression, they do:
  • Contribute to the attribute multipliers.
  • Give you the 'rest and meditate' message, if you are already ready to level up.

• If you increase your Endurance when you level up, your health goes up by 10% of the new Endurance value.

• Percentage points of health are retained (but not displayed), so if your Health is 40, Endurance is 55, and you level up, you will gain 5.5 points of Health. Your Health will now be displayed as 46 (rounded up). If you then gain another level, your Health will increase by another 5.5, resulting in 51 Health.

--Gaebrial 04:13, 8 January 2008 (EST)

Thanks, Gaebrial! I love having less ugly superscript text on the page! Would you take a look at the latest revision and make sure I understood you correctly about rest vs. wait? I knew what I meant originally, but I expressed it misleadingly.

About that fractional health, that's immensely interesting. Does that mean that max health, current health, and damage dealt or taken are all floats behind the scenes? Or does this just apply to max health? --TheNicestGuy 11:17, 8 January 2008 (EST)

One slight clarification to that - you don't have to sleep in a bed unless you're in a town. Resting in the wilderness will let you go up a level but resting in a town will get you a message about it being illegal. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 11:21, 8 January 2008 (EST)

It applies to max and current health and magicka, and I would imagine it also applies to damage dealt/taken (as this is adjusted by Strength and Armor Rating), but I'm not absolutely certain. --Gaebrial 02:22, 9 January 2008 (EST)

[edit] Just wondering...

what will happen when your high level character has less then 3 attributes to spend points on? So your strength, speed, endurance, agility, personality and intelligence are all at 100, your willpower is at 96 and luck at 92. At the next level up you could still spend points on willpower and luck, but since the game wont let you close the window unless you spend all 3 points you could never close the window and therefor never rest again? 131.174.17.97 06:31, 28 January 2008 (EST)

I've never got to that situation, but I understand from others that if you only have two attributes you can increase, you are only given two 'points' to allocate. --Gaebrial 07:46, 28 January 2008 (EST)

[edit] Multipliers

Well, I thought I was fixing a confusing sentence, but my fix got moderated out.

The phrase was explaining that for efficient leveling, you should split your 10 skill increases between three different attributes, so you get the highest possible increase.

Therefore, you should split your 10 increases between three of the attributes, so each gets the highest possible multiplier.

The existing phrase for efficient levelling says to have three attributes with 10 points in "each" (a total of thirty points which is impossible, since you only have 10). It should say 10 points "between them", indicating that the 10 skills you increase should only be increasing no more than three different attributes (or two if you want to add to Luck) so the highest possible points can be awarded for each of those three attributes.

Addendum: The highest attribute increase (assuming 10 skill points were increased) is by adding eight skill points for one attribute and one skill point each for two more attributes. This allows you to add four points to one attribute, and two points each to the other two attributes, for a total attribute increase of eight points. Brf

I can see the confusion, but the segment in question was talking about maximizing multipliers. Yes, ten increases in your Major and Minor skills result in a level-up. However, you can gain additional attribute multipliers by utilizing Misc. skills, thus having ten increases in each attribute you want to level up. I changed the headline to be clearer now. Hope that helps, Benould^•T•C 15:24, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

Oh. Do you get attribute increases for Other Skills too? I was not aware of that. I was thinking only the Major and Minors counted. Brf

Only Majors and Minors count for actually leveling, but all skills count for attribute multipliers when you do level. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 17:30, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

I just tried this, and it does NOT work. I was at 20/10 for my leveling skills, so I ran to the Blunt Weapon trainer (which is a misc skill for me) and trained 10 levels. I was expected x5 for Strength and but had no multiplier there when I levelled. Then, I trained 20 more Blunt points and when I levelled, I had no multipliers at all. ^{—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 98.213.108.14 (talk • contribs).}

Major/minor/misc. skill increases ALL count towards multipliers.

Skills governed by the same attribute "stack" for multiplier purposes. (eg. An increase of 2 in Acrobatics and 4 in Longblade will count as an increase of 6 in Strength)

You earn a level when you get a total of ten skill points in your "class skills". Every skill has an attribute associated with it, you can see them on the stat menu popups. Each class skill that you earn delivers a point for its attribute, and each misc skill delivers up to four points adds to it as well. These points translate into the score multipliers by the following table:

1-4 skill increases will give a multiplier of x2 for the governing attribute at the next level up.

5-7 = x3

8-9 = x4

10(or more) = x5

Example:

Say you want to level STR, and have a major skill in Long Blade and a minor in Armorer. You had 2 skill-ups in in each for a total of 4. That leaves 6 point to be gained in misc, let's say 5 in in Blunt and 2 in Axe. Blunt then caps at 4, 2 Axe added to the 4 from before. Presto, 10 points total in STR and a multi-plier of 5.

Skill increases, for multiplier purposes, reset to 0 on every "level up".

Bug, in some versions:

If the next multiplier would take you to 100, you can only reach 99. resetting the multipliers completely. Hope this helps, --Benould^•T•C 21:32, 17 April 2008 (EDT)--Edited, no cap on how much Misc Skills can add to multiplier. We debunked an old myth here ;)--Benould^•T•C 15:51, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

A couple of points of clarification... Firstly, as far as I am aware, the game stops tracking skill increases once you have got to 20/10. Therefore, any training you buy once you are at 20/10 is lost. Secondly, if you have an attribute that is close to 100, and you increase your skills sufficiently that the multiplier would push that attribute above 100, you will lose that multiplier. Example: if your strength is at 96, and you increase your skills sufficiently to get x5 to strength, you will not get a multiplier on strength at level up, as 96 + 5 = 101. --Gaebrial 03:46, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

That might explain the problem I had then. Since my Strength was already 96, I could not gain 5 points in it. Brf

An interesting one for this 95+ bug. I had a 95 Intellegence after leveling. I went and trained Enchant (a minor skill) 10-points and it did not let me add more than 1-point to Intellegence upon levelling again. On the other hand, I had 99 speed and it would let me add 2-points to that.--Brf 23:57, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

Nothing new in that, if you had gotten 8-9 increases in Enchant, you'd get a 4x multiplier. Likewise, going over from 99 has always been possible, the game just corrects itself when you exit the level-up screen. --Benould^•T•C 00:25, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

OK. So the bug exists when your current Attribute level is 95-98, and prevents you from reaching 100. Once you reach 99, whatever attribute increase multipler will show, even though you cannot use more than 1. --Brf 11:27, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Misc skill caps

Why does this misinfomation saying Misc skills cap at 4-attribute points keep appearing? I, for instance with my GOTY PC version, have no Major/Minor skills with Agility attribute, but I can still add 5 agility points by adding 10 to a Misc skill. --Brf 08:22, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

I seem to recall that the way miscellaneous skills contributed to attribute increases at level up was changed with one of the official patches. In the patch notes for the original 1.1 patch, it says "Training skills will now add to level up bonus for misc skills", so maybe that's the reason for the confusion. --Gaebrial 02:16, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

I'm really not sure what that patch note is supposed to mean. On my Xbox 360 I'm running an unpatched version of Morrowind and I have definitely, on nearly every level up, been able to get +5 attribute bonuses from basically any combination of minor, major, and misc skills. For example, I have repeatedly bought training for 10 heavy armor skill increases (a misc skill for my character) and obtained a +5 endurance bonus, without any other endurance-related skill increases. I've done the same for other specializations and other attributes: blunt weapon, unarmored, hand-to-hand, and enchant. I've also received 10 restoration skill increases purely from casting spells, and I got a +5 willpower bonus. The only time my attribute bonuses have not matched my expected bonuses has been when my attributes reached 95, at which point the +5 bonus vanished; I took a +4 bonus the next level instead. Since I'm mildly obsessive about attribute bonuses, I've kept track of my skills at every level up. Therefore, my data for testing this are pretty comprehensive, and I can't see any combinations suggesting any type of cap on attribute bonuses from misc skills.

And from reading through the patch notes, I'm convinced I don't have the 1.1 patch. I definitely don't have the "additions" listed under "VERSION 1.1.0605" (no version number on my menu screen; no health bar for enemies; no difficulty slider -- and by comparison to my patched PC version, I know what these features should look like). Even without trying to verify the bugs, I've seen some of the other bugs that were fixed (I've gained money when buying an item; I've seen NPCs running when they should be wandering; etc.). So I think it's safe to assume that I don't have this supposed misc skill fix, either.

Any other theories on what that patch note could mean? --Nephele^Talk 13:36, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

From what I understand, or remember, in the original PC version (version 1.0 if you like), miscellaneous skills could only contribute a single attribute bonus point (so if you only increased miscellaneous skills against an attribute, you would only get +2 for that attribute at level up). Any combination of major/minor skills and misc skills would increase the bonus, but the misc skills would still only give you a single bonus point - for example, if you had 5 major/minor skill increases and 5 misc skill increases for an attribute, you would get an increase of +4 (1 standard point, 2 bonus points for major/minor skills, 1 bonus point for misc skills). This may have only applied to misc skills that were increased by training (as opposed to practicing), but I seem to recall that it applied to all misc skill increases - my memory on this may be faulty, though.

This is what I believe was changed in the 1.1 patch, although I don't know/can't remember the circumstances surrounding the change. It is possible that, as the X-Box version was released later than the PC version, BethSoft included certain aspects of the 1.1 patch, including the revised level up bonuses, in it.

--Gaebrial 02:34, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

It comes from a Gamefaqs Article by Xenious. This requirement, however suspect, is worth mentioning if only to debunk it- if we can. I took the info in his article on good faith, and others will have also. Mentioning within the Level article the suspect nature of this info will forestall others from inserting what they see to be an omission. At the moment we lack sufficient evidence to debunk it outright, and can only assert that it is suspect. Anarchangel 19:28, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

Moved the section concerning levelling down, and added a caveat to distinguish it. It was written by myself without knowledge or consideration of XBox and GotY versions, and had been edited by users of those versions with no knowledge or consideration of any other version than their own, seemingly without regard to whether it ended up making sense even for those versions they based their revisions on. I have amended my considerations, and trust they will do the same.

The amended section itself is on a short leash, as it has been some years since I obtained the information on skill caps, and I can no longer be certain whether it was empirical evidence from my own version, 1.0.0.417, or information from a website. I will put a citation tag on it, which I will replace with the version number if I find the cap ingame. If I do not find it ingame, I will look online for examples of the cap, and provide them as citations if I find them. If I find neither, I will delete it. Anarchangel 07:41, 16 July 2008 (EDT) Found the website with the Misc skill caps. Will add the reference, with more specific caveats.Anarchangel 19:28, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Raising skills that are already at 100.

Just a side note that there is no such thing as a "level block" like how you described it with the 97/100 restoration and security. You can use negative skill buff spells to temporarily drop it to a value below maximum, then go to a skill trainer and pay some gold to get a point contributed to your level, even though it doesn't raise the skill any higher.

I haven't tested whether it contributes to the multiplier, but I'm pretty certain it does.

Also, when you run out of attributes to raise, you simply get less stats to raise. If you want to max out all your stats, it is recommended to raise Luck at every level since there's no multiplier for that attribute.

That is not what the author of that note is saying... The 97/100 is not refering to a skill with a level of 97. It is refering to a skill at 97% of the way to the next skill point. The example is of a character that is already at 10/10 MM skills and ready to level up, but has not trained enough Misc skills to be ready to actually level up with maximum attribute point increase. If the MM skill in question is at 97% of the next skill raise, he wants to avoid using that skill to avoid getting to 11/10 and losing an attribute-raise-point to go toward the second level-up (after the 11/10 one).--Brf 09:34, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

do not know why he considers it to be so terrible to get to 11/10 when Misc skills can be used for attribute point-increases at any time regardless if you are at 11/10 or not. --Brf 09:40, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

You are right that my concern over the 11th M/M point is a little excessive for a main page. Looking back at it, I am not happy about leaving this the way it is, with the detailed example of what is a minor concern. On the other hand, it is a concern; whatever made one's points go to over 10/10 can happen again, compounding the problem, and necessitating playing catch-up.

Well, in this game I am playing, I was at 210ish/10. I only caught up once I maxed out all my stats. Throughout most of the game, I was at least 100/10. In Morrowind, it really does not matter as long as you keep track of your skill gain. Also, I just tested the Drain Skill to drop your skill and training it back up with a trainer. It does contribute to your level, but your skill raise disappears. Once the Drain effect wears off, you go back to 100. There was some note about raising skills past 100 and people consider it cheating, but it really isn't. With 10 M/M skills, that's already level 100, and that is WAY excess of what anyone actually needs... ZirePhoenix 02:50, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Hints Page

I propose making a Gameplay Hints or Tips for Levelling or some such page with links from this page, for tips players would like to contribute, including (or perhaps not) the sort of micromanagement and all around tips that I had previously contributed to the Levelling section.Anarchangel 07:41, 16 July 2008 (EDT) There are a few other sections on this page that are contributing other than merely describing the game mechanics, and could fit the tone of a Hints page also; otherwise I wouldn't have put such informal advice here :o). For now, I will merely clarify the 97/100 thing that it is already causing confusion -might as well just lift Brf's phrasing verbatim Anarchangel 03:44, 16 July 2008 (EDT) Took out the passage altogether, pending approval of a Hints page. A Hints page, in addition to Efficient Levelling, and other such gameplay suggestions, could also have in it comments such as this, taken from this very Discussion "If you want to max out all your stats, it is recommended to raise Luck at every level since there's no multiplier for that attribute." It would bridge the gap to what players want to contribute but cannot, on this page: their own strategies. It would be informal, and leave this page free from informalities, allowing it to concentrate on game mechanics exclusively. Anarchangel 07:41, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

You mean like Morrowind:Hints? Try to fit it there, instead of yet another advice page ;) --Benould^•T•C 10:50, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

o\ My bad. Will do. Anarchangel 19:39, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Read before Revert

I learned a valuable lesson from the process of editing this page: that the Xevious article on Gamefaqs was in error. The primary reason for my previous edit, highlighting the dispute about this fact, is that it is drawn to the attention of people who might have been similarly misled.

I want to make it perfectly clear that I do not support the version of this page as it now stands. I was in error to write the text that now stands; it describes what I now know to be an unnecessary and flawed procedure, and more importantly has been marred by having the relevant detail that would have marked it as such, removed. it is a hazard. For me to return the text to what I feel it should be, would inevitably be the first shot in an edit war, and that, I shall not do. Anarchangel 18:54, 17 July 2008 (EDT)