Oblivion:Gripes/Alchemy

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This article provides Alchemy gripes, as part of the Game Balance section of the Gripes article.

You can create potions far more powerful than even the best spell caster can cast, like a 150 point feather spell that lasts 6 minutes. Alchemy effects should be carefully balanced against what can be cast.

The balance here comes from the fact that if I had a 6-minute 150-point Feather spell, I could cast it over and over, effectively adding a permanent 150-pound cap on what I could carry. With a potion, you have to consume more ingredients each time you make one, it's not a permanent ability like a spell. A one-time-use potion with a weak effect and duration would just be frustrating and make alchemy less useful. Leave this one alone.

If you could cast spells just as powerful as alchemy, then Alchemy would become (almost) worthless.

Even though you can create powerful potions, you can only use them once. You can cast spells over and over again. It is also much harder to find the appropriate ingredients to make the perfect potion vs. creating your own spell, casting it, and then waiting for 8 seconds while your Magicka regenerates.

If you think Oblivion potions are too powerful, look at the Morrowind alchemy.

Morrowind's Player made potions were more powerful(I think), On the other hand, you weren't guaranteed to be successful every time.

The weight and price of potions are quirky: the first time you make a specific potion freezes in the weight and price of subsequent identical potions. This is most noticeable when you discover the recipe that you just made fifty times has now managed to take up five times the weight of its original ingredients. It appears to be a choice made to allow potions to stack in your inventory (and admittedly having even more nearly identical potions take up pages of your inventory would be pretty annoying) but it leads to irrational consequences. For example, the name of a potion should not affect its weight and price. A Cure Poison potion with a nasty Damage Health side effect should not be more valuable than a Cure Poison potion without any side effects (this will happen if you start making Cure Poison potions using Redwort Flower and St. Jahn's Wort Nectar late in the game). These problems are amplified by the surprise factor: the alchemy tool doesn't tell you what the weight of your potion is going to be until after you've made it.

The weight of your original potion is the average of the weights of the ingredients used to make it. While it makes no sense that a potion with different ingredients, but the same effect should have the same weight; this is easily fixable by dropping your first potion and making another without an 'identical' one in your inventory.

This reply does not actually respond to the original gripe. Dropping a potion from your inventory does nothing to alter the weight of subsequent potions that you make. The weight of all potions with that same name and strength are permanently fixed by the first potion you make, no matter what you subsequently do (drop the potions, drink them, etc.)

To me the wieght thing kind of makes sense, both in terms of a game and in reality. In terms of a game, it should be tougher to keep potions and your potions should be less essential because your new to the skill. In terms of reality, if you put a hammer and a stone in a bag shouldn't it way more than either a hammer or a stone seperately? Hope this helps.

You can find and buy potions that you can not make yourself. Even as a Master of Alchemy and with all four pieces of equipment at master level you cannot make a poison of paralysis over 3 seconds though you can find them lasting 5 seconds in the game. Nor can you make the various potions of healing that restore 20, 35 and 50 points of health in an instant, only the potions of restore health that work over time. This and the fact that your potions seem to reach a price cap so that a potion of invisibility, for example, lasting 50 seconds will not sell more than 56 gold which is less that the "official" 45 second potion goes for, go together to break immersion. Not only are you frustrated that your holy grail master level apparatus isn't actually that good but you can't help asking the question, "If I can't make those potions then who can?" The whole point of games where you get progressively better at something is that one day you'll be the best. Not so with Oblivion's Alchemy skill.

• Just to note, fortify health and fortify endurance potions do provide an immediate boost to your health. Now, the health boost goes away when the fortify effect expires, so it's not as good as a healing potion. Nevertheless, it's useful in battle, and it's something you can make yourself.

Would you pay more money for cough syrup some random guy made in his basement, or the stuff you buy from the drugstore? Honestly, if I were the merchant, I wouldn't even buy your potions. Imagine that merchant trying to sell that to somebody, only reason they bought it was probably because you scared the crap out of them with the big huge sword you were swinging around when you walked in. j/k (but not really)

It's normal that the merchant should be reluctant at first, but after checking the quality of the potions, he'll find out that you've got a lot of Alchemy skill and will value you and your potions much more. Thus paying you more.

There are potions you could make if you had several hours or an entire day to brew, but your character is making these potions on the fly (literally, at times). Hence, a reason why you cannot duplicate the effects of some store-bought concoctions.

And why be unable to spend some more time with alchemy?

Well I don't see a problem with the game time still going when you create potions, i mean it's just time. only certain missions require a time limit and it would help it seem a little more realistic (well fantasy realism haha)

Congratulations on your classic, classic ret-con. The reason is not one of lore. It's pure gameplay. The creators of the game chose to make home-brewed potions different than ones you buy at the store. On a larger note, I have this to say to gripers: Oh noes, it's not realistic! This is fantasy, what precisely did you expect?

Just because it's "fantasy" doesn't mean it doesn't have to be internally consistent. It is expected that a fantasy world will follow different rules than our own, but it is unacceptable for it not to follow it's OWN rules. in a world where magic is real, it follows certain rules and must consistently stick to them, just like gravity or magnetism works in our world. a potion that is possible to make should always be possible for anyone with the skill, time, and equipment to make it, regardless of who they are.

As I wrote earlier on the enchantment page, you aren't as skilled as some people. Think... you have been doing this for what? a few weeks? months? Some people make a life out of this and are therefore much ,much better than you

The value of the ingredient and the magnitude of the effect are not linked, but the value of the potion and the ingredients used does. For example, a damage health poison that uses a 75 gold and a 1 gold ingredient will have the same stats (with same equipment and level) as a potion made with 2 (two) 1 gold ingredients. However, the potion would cost more, to reflect the ingredients used. This leaves two related problems - 1. Why would two poisons, which both have identical effects, have different sale values, especially if you can't harvest an ingredient from a potion? 2. Why wouldn't a more expensive ingredient be expected to have better stats for the same potion (I realize that certain ingredients are more expensive because they have rarer effects, but a novice alchemist wouldn't know that unless he was a master alchemist in another life).

More expensive doesn't mean better. Rare doesn't imply useful. For example, a concrete made of using cement and a rare, unique desert rose milled into sand won't be any better (or more precious) than a concrete made using cement with plain sand. If you're short on sand but have a plenty of desert roses, and need some concrete, you'll use what you have though. Using the rare ingredients for common potions is like lighting cigars with dollar notes.

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