Oblivion:Gripes/Official Plugins

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This article provides Official Plugins gripes, as part of the Game Content section of the Gripes article.

If you start a new game with the official plugins, the quest introductions (except for Knights of the Nine) come at ridiculous times - they all happen at various times while you are in the tutorial level. So before Bothiel has even heard of you, she's asking you to collect Orrery pieces - she is sending a random note a random prisoner who is the middle of a secret passage. You are delivered deeds and keys and hearing stories about pirate ships while you are the middle of nowhere. It would not have hurt to put the quests in more appropriate places - delivering the advertisement for the horse stable along with the Black Horse Courier or when visiting any stables, having Bothiel ask you to fix the Orrery when you meet her, getting the deed to Frostcrag spire from a Mage's Guild member if one of your magic stats is 35 or more, getting the deed to the Vile lair from a Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild member if your infamy is over 10 or 20, or learning about Dunbarrow Cove when chatting with Pirates or people in the Bloated Float or random people in Anvil.

The Official Plugins Unnerfed mod solves that issue.

sorta - read the comments - it's apparently buggy and doesn't work on the dvd versions of the mods.

I have just played the Shivering Isles, my main gripe with the expansion, is that it's not worth 2400 credits I paid for it using the XBox Market Place (I think that translates to around 29 USD). I mean the original game cost 59 dollars, and it's easily 20 times as long and complicated to make. The expansion didn't have new music, new types of weapon, new types of armor, new types of ability, new types of door. Virtually everything in the expansion is just another manifestation of what already exists, i.e. the engine stays the same, no improvement in AI, and it is short and costs half of the original game. Come one, as madgod Sheogorath, I cannot kill people and get away with it, or resurrect them, or banish them, or do anything fun as a GOD, i.e. do anything that the storyline claims the real Sheogorath did, such as banish you to thousands of feet above the city, cannot order the Dark Seducers, or the Golden Saint to do nothing, cannot unlock locked doors (the ones that are unlockable without keys), cannot enter the Dark Seducers barrack (if you choose to become Lord of Dementia). Boooo to the developers for duping fans like myself into believing that the official expansion will be as great as the original game.

You apparently have missed a few things. While you are correct that the expansion lacks new music, there are new weapons and armor, specifically the armor and weapons that you can have manufactured for you from amber or madness ore, and the Golden Saint/Dark Seducer armor that becomes available through the main quest. The Golden Saints and Dark Seducers also have new weapons that they drop, as do the Grummites. Not new to the Elder Scrolls, but new to Oblivion is the Fork of Horripilation, a blade-skill weapon that gives an alternative to the usual daggers and swords (though the Fork's lousy stats and magicka-stunting would keep all but the most hardcore fork-fans from seriously considering its use). And if that wasn't enough added variety for you, there's the Dawnfang/Duskfang sword that switches enchantments depending on time of day, counts the number of kills you make with it, and upgrades itself once you've slain a dozen people with it.

As for new types of ability, there's the Summon Haskill spell which lets you summon a particular NPC to be able to talk to and get advice from, which is notably different than previous summoning spells which only provide you with a limited-duration meat shield to do your fighting for you. If you run through the Hill of Suicides questline, you gain the ability to resurrect the dead. Not new to anyone who has obtained the Staff of Worms, but in this case, it's a spell you cast, and not a staff effect.

Other new magical abilities include spells you get at the completion of the expansions main quest: the ability to control the weather, and to be automatically teleported back to the throne room instead of dying. This second new magical effect is made especially useful by the fact that once you've healed yourself up, you can opt to teleport straight back to where you were. While not entirely new to the Elder Scrolls -- similar effects could be achieved in TES:3 using the Intervention, Mark and Recall spells for instance, however, to do so, required you to micromanage your spells instead of casting a single two minute spell that kicks in automatically if you need it.

There's another new ability that isn't magic related, but it's subtle. You can disguise yourself as a Zealot or Heretic by donning their robes and hoods. If you're wearing the appropriate outfit, you can get in much closer before triggering hostilities.

There are even new types of door, in particular, the barrier membrane that refuses to open for you during the Addiction quest in the main questline until you consume your first dose of Felldew. There are also the root doors found throughout the dungeons in the Shivering Isles, and for a new "door" that isn't even a door, the teleport pads that take you through certain portions of Xedilian certainly aren't something that's commonly found in the original game.

Also new to the expansion are several types of traps, such as statue traps, a plant-based variant on the spike trap and several others. While you didn't mention a lack of new traps specifically, they certainly are worth mentioning as a feature of the expansion that make the experience qualitatively different from the base game.

As for ordering the Golden Saints and Dark Seducers around, there are one of each that stand by your throne once you've completed the main quest, and you can command them to follow with on your quests. Additionally, there are the summon saint/seducer powers that give you command of one as a temporary ally.

Crime and Punishment is handled slightly differently after completion of the main quest. While the Saint/Seducer Guards will still confiscate stolen items, and charge a bounty, you are no longer taken to the prison dungeons. It's still slightly annoying, but maybe your predecessor instructed them that some rules apply to all inmates in the asylum, even the Lord of the Realm. As the new Lord, you probably should be able to tell them otherwise, but at this stage in your reign, they're more inclined to humor you as a nutcase who merely thinks he's in charge (remember humoring nutcases is a basic job skill for Saint/Seducer Guards); the reality of the situation hasn't yet set in for them.

It is true that you can't send someone for a cordless bungie-cord jump just for growing a beard without your permission, but the previous holder of the throne had been doing the Daedric Prince gig for three eras... thousands of years to develop and hone powers. You've only just begun, so of course you'd have room to grow.

The poster's point about no new weapons was that there are no new TYPES of weapons or armor, like polearms, crossbows, knuckles, medium armor etc. No new abilities, still the same old spells. There's only new quests and skins, nothing that is completely new and wasn't already introduced in Oblivion.

"Control the Weather" was never a spell in Oblivion.

They didn’t add any new skills for Shivering Isles because they didn’t want players to feel like they had to create a new character to play shivering isles, also my experience is limited to Morrowind and Oblivion but I never heard anything about manipulating the weather with a greater power in Daggerfall or Arena? Granted you could change the weather in Tribunal during the main quest with a machine but you never had control of it like you do with magic in Shivering Isles.

Also, you are only a god in status, not in power.

Despite becoming a Daedric Lord in your own right (and defeated Jyggalag in the process), you still lack the power to take on Mehrunes Dagon in a fair (or unfair) fight, and still have to rely on Martin turning himself into an avatar of Akatosh to defeat him. At the very least, you should be able to Wabbajack him, and put a beatdown on him while he's powered down. All you're capable of doing at the moment is freezing him for a few seconds.

Also, there should be an option in the "Blood of the Daedra" quest to give your own blood. It makes no sense to go hareing off to find some daedric artifact in order to get the divine essence of a Daedric Lord, when there's one standing right in front of him. Heck, even if your character's scared of pointy objects, I'd be surprised if a vial filled at the Font of Madness wouldn't work, seeing as it is filled with the lifeblood of the Realm, which is itself an extension of you.

You are Daedric Prince by function, not by nature — just a mortal charged with leading a plane of Oblivion — so your blood wouldn't work. A vial from the Font of Madness should do it, however... though maybe the blood of a dead Prince is useless (and Sheogorath doesn't let you take water from the Font before his death). At least the Sword of Jyggalag should work fine.

The font still has power, unless it recharges your staff with fake power. Also, though not in the course of the game, The new sheogorath would likely "grow into his role" as Jyggalag said, Since the plane and it's power are now connected to him, if that is not the case, the Shivering Isles is (are?) still doomed.

Shivering Isles does not change the core game.

Not true, actually. If you meet Sheogorath in Isles, and then go back to his Daedric shrine in the core game to get Wabbajack, he recognizes you and asks why you aren't completing the other tasks he's set for you in the Isles. No idea what happens if you go there after he's dead. Maybe you give yourself a quest.

If you go to the shrine after Sheogorath is dead, Haskill will give you the quest. Also worth noting, once you install Shivering Isles, the voice is changed from the original one for the Daedric shrine to the new voice acting.

Mehrunes Dagon can indeed be Wabbajacked (lol), even without the Shivering Isles. Just complete his Shrine quest to receive the Wabbajack cane and fire away (his model stays the same, but his stats are weakened to whatever creature he transforms into. Now, you can't kill him, but he can be staggered, allowing you and Martin a corridor of escape, meaning you do have some power.

Besides, the Daedric Prince of Madness, albeit wily, probably couldn't hold up in a fight against the Prince of Destruction. Even with that sweet beard.

You can’t loot the armor off the Golden Saints and Dark Seducers, even though when you play through the Shivering Isles Main Quest you’re rewarded with a leveled set of either the Saint or Seducer armor so you would think that they would wear leveled armor. So you can’t acquire both sets let alone multiple sets so you have to wait to collect Amber and/or Madness ore so you can get a whole set of armor and not just a shield in the Shivering Isles. Their aren’t any spell making or enchantment alters either, so your going to have to return to Cyrodiil a lot if you play through the Isles with a brand new mage type character because your going to need to make new spells not to mention there are a lot of spells that just aren’t available so when you go back to Cyrodiil you got to pay attention to make sure you bought all the spells you want and or need or you going to be constantly traveling back and forth.

I managed to get quite a few sets of armor, though I'm not sure if this was due to one of the mods I'm running

You are awarded with a set of golden saint or dark seducer armor when you complete The Helpless Army

It'd be really nice if the new Lord Sheogorath had a home of his own (I'm still using the Duchess of Mania's rooms); was recognised by everyone (I still get called 'Your Grace', 'My Lady' or even 'Madwoman'); and had a gender-consistent title (though the 'My Lady' comments I get may be from being Duchess, and the 'Lord' may be from being Sheogorath). These are such simple things to correct - aside from the home, it's all just proofreading!
I'd also 'feel' more like the Prince of Madness if I had the option to promote replacements for the Duke/Duchess of Mania and Dementia. And whichever priest of Arden-Sul you didn't light for the torch for still refuses to speak to you; even though you're now the God of the Shivering Isles. Sure, they worship Arden-Sul, not Sheogorath, but it's not exactly good politics to be snide at the Daedra who owns the realm!

Arden-Sul was believed to be Sheogorath's mortal incarnation, so they should be talking to you, anyway.

Commenting on my own gripe: Daedra are apparently considered male at all times, at least among other Daedra; even those who wear female forms. If Azura can be Lord, so can I. Consistency, however, would be nice.

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