Oblivion talk:Ammunition

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Contents 1 Obtaining Glass+ Arrows 2 Arrow Types 3 Enchanting Arrows 4 Arrow of Voltage 5 Why no Gatekeeper arrows? 6 Why use Heavier Arrows?

[edit] Obtaining Glass+ Arrows

I don't think these ever become purchasable, but does anyone know if there is a merchant who sells Glass or Ebony Arrows, or must they be found the same as those armor types? Since I'm pretty sure this is a no, does anyone know of where there are static areas (consistently replenishing over time) that these types of arrows can be found? --AlbinoMudcrab 19:59, 6 February 2007 (EST)

They are definitely not included on the standard vendor ammunition lists. If you have the Thieves Den plugin, however the fletcher vendor there will sell glass, ebony, and daedric arrows. Otherwise, there's one good place to get glass arrows: the dark guardian archers in Fort Farragut have a 75% chance of carrying 10 of them as long as you're level 20 or higher. But as for ebony and daedric, I can't see any easy ways to find them. --Nephele 22:09, 6 February 2007 (EST)

Both of those are exactly what I'm looking for, especially Melliwin the Mongrel in Dunbarrow, I always forget she has the most bizarre array of arrows and never even took note that she sells glass, ebony, or especially daedric (which I barely ever see). I'll make way to Farragut as well, and re-scavenge the place, Glass arrows are my preference so that should pay off repeatedly. I find Cheydinhal and the surrounding area so depressing since the Brotherhood quest line, I hardly find myself near there anymore. Thank you muchos for the info, I've needed it for awhile. --AlbinoMudcrab 01:31, 7 February 2007 (EST)

[edit] Arrow Types

Just in case anybody is wondering about the Dwarven→Silver→Iron change that just took place on the article... The Arrow of Savage Frost was down as Dwarven and got edited. I checked in the CS and it's editor id is "EncArrow4DwarvenFrostArea" but it came under the iron section. I checked in the game and it definitely has the appearance of an iron arrow, as does the Arrow of Silence (EncArrow4DwarvenSilence). I therefore changed the article to say Iron; hopefully that's now correct! --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 15:56, 29 November 2007 (EST)

[edit] Enchanting Arrows

Can a player enchant their own arrows? If so to what degree and how many slots do the arrows have for enchantment?

Is there any difference in how the arrows are enchanted compared to a normal weapon or item?

How many arrows can be enchanted at once?

I'm afraid not. That's why enchanted arrows often get special mentions on this site, as they're relatively rare. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 06:30, 10 February 2008 (EST)

[edit] Arrow of Voltage

The enchantment on the Arrow of Voltage does indeed contain a Soul Trap effect. I've verified both in the CS and the game. It's presumably a bug, but it's definitely there. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:42, 28 February 2008 (EST)

Ummm.... I know you've double checked, but I've double checked too... triple checked now, trying to slice the data every way I can think of. The combined Frost Damage+Soul Trap enchantment is one that's only added by the Shivering Isles: SEEnWeapShockDamage15Lightning (00045E98) instead of the vanilla EnWeapShockDamage15Lightning (0000BF47). Without SI, there are no enchantments that combine soul trap with any other effects. And even with SI, that enchantment isn't added to the Arrow of Voltage. The FormID definition for the arrow isn't accidentally changed (as, for example, happens to daedric battle axes when you install Mehrunes' Razor); the FormID for the enchantment isn't changed. I can't even see any arrows anywhere that use that enchantment (battle axes, bows, swords, etc., yes; arrows, no).

Admittedly I can't check the CS or the game right now. This is all just based upon extracted data. But it is the same extracted data that I've used to figure out problems like the daedric battle axes in the past. If there's a mistake somewhere, I really want to know about it so that I can fix these extracts that I rely on so heavily ;) And even if there's a mistake somewhere, I'm still forced to conclude that the problem is only one that's introduced after SI has been installed. And in that case, it seems like we need to double check every listed weapon enchantment on the site to see if this problem affects every other weapon using the EnWeapShockDamage15Lightning enchantment, or even every weapon using any enchantment that ends up having a soul trap version in SI. --Nephele^Talk 14:24, 28 February 2008 (EST)

Ah. I am using a game with SI installed but I still can't get the figures to agree. The Arrow of Voltage I have (EncArrow5ElvenShockDamage - 0004BF06) has the EnWeapShockDamage15Lightning (0000Bf47) enchantment and that has both effects. There is also a SEEnWeapShockDamage15Lightning (00045E98) that is identical to the other one. So it could indeed be SI that's adding the effect but there's definitely some difference between our games here. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 14:35, 28 February 2008 (EST)

Just for the record, I've got the GOTY edition and I'm seeing the same thing--EnWeapShockDamage15Lightning has Shock Damage and Soul Trap effects (and that's from looking at Oblivion.esm only). –Eshe^talk14:42, 28 February 2008 (EST)

OK, I've confirmed that SI does overwrite the information for EnWeapShockDamage15Lightning (well, technically, could be anything that changed Oblivion.esm after version 1.1.511, but it's more likely to be SI than either of the 1.2 patches). I've also figured out why I didn't pick up the change earlier, and updated my code to do a more thorough set of checks for SI-induced changes to vanilla oblivion.

The upshot is that we need to somehow update the information for the Arrow of Voltage and all of the other "of Voltage" items (which all share the same EnWeapShockDamage15Lightning enchantment). And for the other "of Voltage" items it's going to be even more fun, because the enchantment magicka cost also changed, so the charge/cost=uses column should be all different.

One question is: should the tables show the SI values (with a note that pre-SI it was different)? Or should the tables show the original values (with a note that post-SI it is different)? I'm somewhat undecided. On the one hand, I'd guess that most of our readers have SI installed. On the other hand, SI is a separate namespace, which seems to implicitly mean that Oblivion pages are primarily for documenting the game without SI. Also, I'd say it's a glitch rather than an intentional change, which means once we point it to Kivan (yes, as far as I can tell, we found the bug first :) ) he'll probably undo it in the next USIP. Although we don't document unofficial changes, if it's a toss-up based on other arguments, perhaps the fact that additional readers will see the original value in game should nudge the decision?

And the other question is, what else is did SI tinker with and accidentally change? None of the other enchantments were altered, so no other weapons should have mysterious soul trap spells. The other changes I'm finding are all minor. Many are irrelevant (giving names to nameless script effects and spells, changing unused spell costs to match the true autocalc values, changing the number of arrows in a chest only found in a test cell, etc.). The only "significant" ones I've found at this point are:

• The weight of A Less Rude Song was changed from 1 to 0.5 ?!?
• Hal-Liurz was given a new unnamed AI package.
• The Bandit Wizard NPC class was renamed to Zealot Wizard.

--Nephele^Talk 18:59, 28 February 2008 (EST)

(outdent) I'd say that since we're in the Oblivion Namespace it should show the original values and then have a note that SI changes things. We already have two pages for A Less Rude Song, here and here but perhaps a general SI page highlighting things that Bethesda in their infinite wisdom decided to change with SI?

[edit] Why no Gatekeeper arrows?

Why do these seem to be forgotten? I think they're retextures and everything, but they're not even listed under 'special'?75.45.170.117 18:51, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

Well since those are found only in the Shivering Isles they are probably listed under "Shivering" not "Oblivion" Herkron 21:04, 10 May 2008 (EDT) Oh, right. Sorry 'bout that, I guess I forgot about the whole vanilla Oblivion.75.45.170.117 11:02, 11 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Why use Heavier Arrows?

I have over 4500 hours of game time but am ashamed to admit that I simply can't understand why one would opt to use Dwarven Arrows instead of Elven or Glass etc.

This is probably do to the fact that upon reaching level 17+, I no longer wear any armor. And only time I use a bow is to take out creatures that reflect damage and they don't wear any armor either. And Sneak Attacking a NPC other than Dremora is an assault and without Sneak Bonus, the physical damage that arrows inflict are pretty much entirely determined by other factors; the bow's base damage, Fatigue, Agility, Marksman Skill etc. e.g Daedric vs Glass. 2pt base damage difference. Yet Daedric arrows are 2.5 times heavier.

And Dremoras, die from a single strike and you can't loot theibbbr armor so you don't check their armor rating. And by the time you encounter Leveled Dremoras; you'd probably be a Master in Sneak so, your attacks ignore their Armor rating... And by then, you can carry around triple damage poisons so you never need to hit them twice.

But what about the probability of knocking down the enemy and/or paralyzing them? When tested with all attributes, skills, weapon condition etc. at absolute maximum; heavier arrows seem to nearly always knock down or paralyze enemies that wear armor, but when used on unarmored targets, they seem to dissappear as if they simply penetrated right through and I can't even retrieve them.

Heavier arrows will lose their velocity as they travel further (e.g. not suited for sniping enemies from 100+ feet away. Although You can adjust your aim so that the arrow will fall from the sky...) As well as simply being heavier so will encumber you when equipped unless you can carry them in batches of 20 for example but you can't. But they must have some kind of a purpose other than causing 2pt extra damage. (6pt with sneak multiplier.)

Especially with enchanted arrows. You simply can't afford to miss. And 6pt extra damage is nothing when your bow + its enchantment does 200pt+ and poison 1000pt.

The heavier arrows (e.g. Daedric, Perfect Amber/Madness with SI.) appear to have a greater chance of making enemies stumble, knock down and/or paralyze but I can't prove it. The only benefit that I can see and prove is that since they take longer to hit the target, you have more time to find cover between shots.

Has anyone experimented with Dremora Arrows? I actually collected over a 1K but couldn't find any use for them except to over-encumber a Minatour Lord and used it to practice firing while jumping, rolling, and for perfecting my aim for target spells.

After loading my old save I tested the Dremora Barbed Arrows (Weight 2, Damage 13) against Perfect Madness Arrows (Weight 0.3, Damage 17) With Dremora Heavy Bow. Shot into Dremora Valkynaz's Daedric Cuirass; at point blank range. They both did exactly 54 damage to the armor.

Is there someone who's an expert at this? As I clearly am not... Thanks.--Webdemon00 09:02, 28 August 2008 (EDT)