Oblivion talk:Attributes

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Contents 1 Relationship between Attributes and Skills 2 Magical Effects on Attributes 3 Personality Affects 4 Intelligence vs. Willpower 5 Missing information 6 Breath 7 Opening paragraph

[edit] Relationship between Attributes and Skills

Ah, something is missing.

The relationship between Attributes and Skills need to be clearly stated.

What effect does any governing Attribute have on a Skill? Without a clear statement there are some questions on this issue in various forums.

I've taken a first stab at creating such a section. Have I overlooked any questions that need to be answered?--Nephele 18:30, 29 June 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Magical Effects on Attributes

This section originally was including the text from several separate pages, i.e. Damage Attribute. I've opted to mark all those separate pages for deletion, since I'm trying to combine all the info on magical effects onto the Magical Effects page. And as far as I can tell, these are the only magical effects that currently have their own minipages. To preserve this section, I've copied the descriptions from those pages over to here; I've also copied those descriptions over to the Magical Effects page. I'm guessing there's a probably a few ways to do this in wiki, but it seemed like the Attributes page only needed the basic descriptions, with a link to the full descriptions. (OK, right now, there generally isn't much more on the Magical Effects page, but eventually there could be...). Any different opinions out there?--Nephele 17:51, 29 June 2006 (EDT)

Responding to the requests for deletion: The problem with deleting these pages is that the users who contributed to them will no longer get credit. I propose that you instead redirect the pages to the article. --Aristeo 19:26, 29 June 2006 (EDT)

Having just taught myself how to do redirects this afternoon, I figured I'd try out my fancy new skills. But then I noticed on the redirect help page that it says redirects to an anchor (i.e. to a sections of a page) can not be done. So is it worth having a redirect if it sends you to the top of a very long page?--Nephele 21:21, 29 June 2006 (EDT)

I think so. You could put a note on the talk page of the redirects and/or the combined article, if you think that would help. --Aristeo 21:46, 29 June 2006 (EDT)

OK, done. Since I don't think anything links to those pages any more, I doubt too many people will ever follow the redirects, so it's probably not a big deal where on the page the redirect puts you.--Nephele 21:59, 29 June 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Personality Affects

The page states that the Personality attributes affects "The highest level at which you may raise the barter slider before being refused a trade." I would like this to indicate a more indirect effect on the Mercantile skill and bartering. Thus, how about changing it to something more general like "Indirectly affects haggling by raising the disposition of merchants towards you." ?^{—The preceding unsigned comment was added by MrMostard (talk • contribs).}

Go for it! I think alot of the mercantile discussion, in various places, is (has been) misleading. BTW, keep up the nice work filling in links on pages!--Nephele 13:42, 20 July 2006 (EDT)

Done. The change does not appear on the attribute page though? I notice that the attributes page "includes" the Oblivion:Personality page, which is where I really made the change. I made sure it is not my browser caching, so it is unclear to me what is happening. Do I have to trigger an update or something? --MrMostard 03:14, 25 July 2006 (EDT)

Updating done. The wiki can be a bit difficult when it comes to updating transcluded pages. If in doubt, make some minor edit to the non-updated page. Or just a couple days ago, Aristeo taught me a new trick which I just used for the first time: purge the page: click on edit, then go up to the URL line, and replace "edit" in that long string with "purge"; hit enter. Of course, just posting a message like you did generally works, too, when someone who knows what to do comes across it. --Nephele 09:12, 25 July 2006 (EDT)

Just tried the purge trick on another page and indeed, works like a charm. Cheers :) --MrMostard 10:23, 25 July 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Intelligence vs. Willpower

Has anyone done a comparative study of which of these two attributes is better for keeping a good Magicka supply? Intelligence increases your overall pool of Magicka, which means that you can cast more spells quickly, and having high Intelligence means you can cast spells with a higher overall cost, but Willpower just increases the rate of recharge. It seems to me that Intelligence would be the clear winner in this case, but I'm not sure. Somebody would have to do the math to figure out whether the combined effects of higher magicka pool and the increased recovery rate from Intelligence is greater than just the increased rate from Willpower. Might be good to arrange some tests - Make a character with high Intelligence and low Willpower and vice versa, try it both with the birthsign/race combos that increase your magicka and without. Factor in the Stunted Magicka issue from the Atronach - which I imagine would make Willpower pretty much useless, but I'm not sure. Might be worth a look. --TheRealLurlock 01:35, 19 August 2006 (EDT)

Although I have never checked, i would assume intelligence is better for your magicka supply, as willpower has two effects while intelligence speciallizes in 1 single effect and most likely would be better at that one effect.--Willyhead 10:19, 4 July 2007 (EDT)

I think it's also a matter of what you find easier to enhance using potions and/or enchantments. Personally I've found that no matter how high your Willpower is, recharging is just not fast enough to keep up if you're unloading a bunch of destruction spells during battle. If you're going to be sucking down Restore Magicka potions either way, Intelligence seems like a better bet. On the other hand, Fortify Magicka potions last much longer than Restore Magicka potions, and decking yourself out in Fortify Magicka-enchanted clothing/armor to compensate for low total Magicka (low Intelligence) is easier than relying on hit-or-miss Spell Absorb and melee-dependent Absorb Magicka weapon enchantments to recharge yourself. In that sense high Willpower is a godsend. Lurlock, I'm sure you were thinking much more mathematically/left brain about the issue, but there's my $0.02.--Arigem 06:57, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

The mathematical analysis for magicka regeneration rate can be found under Willpower.

In a nutshell: Intelligence will give you faster regeneration until your maximum total magicka is 75 points more than twice your willpower. For example, if your maximum magicka is 150, and your Willpower is 50, then you should keep increasing Intelligence rather than Willpower for another 13 points (until your maximum magicka exceeds 175) just for the increased regeneration rate! Of course, this doesn't even consider that a higher maximum magicka actually allows you to cast more powerful spells than you could before. Say for example an Expert level spell that costs 175 magicka at your current skill level could not be cast at all even if you had 100 Willpower and only 150 magicka and were chugging down Restore Magicka potions on top of that. --Nocturnal 11:15, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Missing information

Something that is missing from this page is a discussion / explanation of what the maximum value for attributes are. Is it 100? What happens if you push an attribute past 100? Past 100, will you not be able to raise the attribute permanently as part of the level up process? ^{—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Snabbik (talk • contribs).}

What's known about increasing an attribute past 100 is provided on each individual attribute page. Some benefits do keep going up, some don't, and some are unknown. You're right that there should be some sort of overview on this page (and also some Morrowind-based statements that don't apply to Oblivion need to be eliminated). If you'd like to take a stab at it, please do! --Nephele^Talk 17:56, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

I think there is something else missing from this page as well. If you look at your attributes depending on what you have equipped etc, your stats are either blue red or green. The colors are simple enough to figure out; blue - normal, red - negative modifier, green - positive modifier. But the trouble is the game makes it very difficult to figure out whats causing them. Say for example i have a character that has a speed attribute which should be around 73 judging from the level up screen but when view in the menu it says "60" in red. I have nothing under my magika tab that says "Drain Speed" and none of my armor has drain speed. So where exactly is this coming from. I also have a Fame of 101 and Infamy of 0. Can anyone help me out?--Randoru 13:54, 02 February 2008

If you have a red attribute and there's nothing in your active effects that explains it then your attribute has been drained. Visit a chapel altar or cast a Restore attribute spell on yourself and you should be back to normal. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 17:06, 2 February 2008 (EST)

[edit] Breath

Does your breath amount underwater count as a derived attribute?--Willyhead 12:14, 30 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Opening paragraph

The opening paragraph: "All attributes have maximum and current level and it's important to distinguish between the two. In case of basic attributes, the maximum level is usually hidden but the current attribute remains at maximum level most of the time."

needs a slight rewrite. I tried to do it myself, but then I got confused trying to make the terms "hidden" and "most of the time" clearer/more specific. Could someone rewrite this part, or clarify these terms so I can take a stab at it? Thanks--Arigem 22:43, 5 August 2007 (EDT)

That intro has always bugged me, perhaps because it was basically wrong ;) I'm really not sure what this hidden maximum value is supposed to be; if it's referring to the base value of the attribute then it's definitely not appropriate to call it a maximum, since the current value can be much larger than the base value. In any case, your reminder convinced to me to revamp the article, so hopefully everyone will now find that the article makes more sense. --Nephele^Talk 21:46, 12 August 2007 (EDT)