Oblivion talk:Black Soul Gem

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Contents 1 Overlap with Enchanting Page 2 getting black soul gems out of nowhere 3 Evidence of Necromancy 4 Notes: Greater soul in grand soul gem 5 Shade of the Revenant - dates... 6 Are black soul gems any better than grand soul gems? 7 Different Dates? 8 Finding Black Soul Gems 9 Umbra Sword 10 Application 11 Hearthfire? 12 Black Soul Gem Grand Unable To Enchant With 13 Black Soul Gem for Enchanting 14 Reorganise page? 15 Item ID 16 New picture? 17 not working? 18 Create Infinite Black Soul Gems 19 Different start date for the shade of the revenant? 20 Date help!

[edit] Overlap with Enchanting Page

This information is all repeated at Oblivion:Enchanting#Black Soul Gems. It seems like only one or the other is needed. My first inclination is to keep this page, and change the section of the Enchanting page to a minimal description and a link to here. The Black Soul Gem discussion does contain some spoilers, that some readers might not want to accidentally learn while browsing the Enchanting page.--Nephele 19:08, 7 July 2006 (EDT)

Well I do think we need a page for Black Sould Gems, so I've added some more info here about their usefulness at ealier levels for enchanting. I think this page can be more detailed about the process of creating them, what they are useful for and other details such as removing the stolen flag and turning a grand soul gem with a lesser sould into a black soul gem.

Oops, that's a somewhat out-of-date and obsolete note. The following day (July 8th) I went ahead and followed through on my suggestion to move the large chunk of information that had been on the Enchanting page over to the Black Soul Gems page. So the Black Soul Gems page is now the primary source for all information about them. But definitely add any more details you think are needed! --Nephele 21:44, 13 February 2007 (EST)

[edit] getting black soul gems out of nowhere

Ever since i completed the end of the Mages Guild questline i have been getting random black soul gems in my inventory when trying to capture grand souls from various creatures. All of my weapons are enchanted and contain soul trap so i use azuras star to keep them filled. What happens is whenever i trap someones (non NPC included) soul it usually doesnt fill Azuras star but makes a black soul gem instead. It is a very useful glitch but it is more practical for me to use the star because u can keep it hotkeyed. I carry the staff of worms and the colossal filled black soul gem with me, could any of those have something to do with it?

I have never noticed that particular glitch, even when carrying the Staff of Worms, it's probably not the Colossal Black Soul Gem as it's a quest item that you cannot remove once you've finished the Mages Guild quests. What platform are you playing on and do you have any mods installed? Grandmaster z0b 22:06, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

seems to be a glitch because ever since I obtained Umbra, slaying NPC will generate filled black soul gems and they keep piling up. It doesn't seem to captyure every time - I inintially thought it was somehow turning grands into blacks even if they already had a trapped soul - but I hadn't used a recharge for awhile and lo and behold a pile of separated black soul gems...I've installed nothing that's too out of the ordinary, unofficial patch, btmod, natural environments, lighting, cities alive.. *shrug* --MacFodder 22:10, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

It may have something to do with one of the mods, or different mods conflicting, or maybe it's just be a glitch. It seems like the black soul gems are spawning rather than giving you the "there are no soul gems big enough in your inventory for the soul..." message. Try unequiping Umbra, The Staff of Worms and Azura's star and see if it still happens. Grandmaster z0b 02:20, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

it doesn't bother me greatly luckily, i leave umbra uncharged to avoid it since it's pretty much an exploit plus i keep my FPS up without the soultrap animations. i prefer using an uncharged glass mace as my typical weapon of choice - i haven't levelled high enough for glass items to appear a lot and i fought hard to get this off a necro (was surprised it even turned up! glad she never drew it on me..) so it's "my little friend" :) --MacFodder 20:42, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Any chance this is related to "Fixed infinite soul gems exploit by dropping and picking up stacked soul gems," which is listed as one of the bugs fixed by the latest patch? --Nephele 00:28, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

I doubt it as I thought that had to do with something like this; if you have 3 unfilled black soul gems they will be listed as one icon with the number 3 next to it, as you fill them they stay on their own line in you inventory even though they're all full and identical. If you then put them into a chest or something they then end up as the same icon again but with the number next to it. Now if you drop them one at a time I think it drops bundles of 3 rather than one.. or something like that. Grandmaster z0b 01:55, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

Actually I totally take that back, I have no idea what causes this bug but it has now happened to me, and seems random, sometimes I'll get a new black soul gem every time I kill a human, other times it goes back to normal. I may have even got a free Grand Soul Gem from this but I cannot be sure. I did actually have a stack of filled Black Soul Gems in my inventory that I had filled, put in a chest, then picked them up again. I'm not using Umbra but have Soul Trap on the custom weapon I'm using and have Azura's Star. Grandmaster z0b 21:02, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

I was just using Wendelbek to procure a collection of Black Soul Gems, but I think I may have found a way to get a large number of them. I noticed that if I put a number of Grand Soul Gems in the altar at once and cast Soul Trap one time, when I checked the altar for the gem count, I would have 1 black gem and the same number of grand gems. Upon testing, I could do this up to x-1 times, (x being the number of grand gems) and still retrieve my full original stack of grand soul gems. If I cast Soul Trap x number of times without removing my grand gems, they would be gone. For example, I put 4 grands in there and cast 3 times. I would have 3 black gems and 4 grand gems, at this point I could still take all 4 grands AND all 3 black gems. I could then exit the altar and enter it again to place the 4 grands back in there and cast Soul Trap 3 more times for the same results 4 grands and 3 black gems! I thought I'd share in case somebody else might want to really take advantage of the Shade of the Revenant71.168.2.196 18:37, 8 September 2007 (EDT)DVSDavis

I went back to the altar to transform two grand soul gems that had been filled with petty souls. I put my two gems in the altar and waited for the correct day... cast soul trap twice and opened the altar to find two black gems and the original two grand soul gems. I removed the black gems and cast soul trap twice more, to get two more black gems and the two grand gems were still in there...? this is a great glitch...71.161.63.15 16:54, 9 September 2007 (EDT)DVSDavis

[edit] Evidence of Necromancy

Carrying Black Soul Gems is not evidence of Necromancy, and has no negative consequences. It's not like wearing Necromancer's robes or anything. Therefore I deleted this totally erroneous paragraph: "Having Black Soul Gems in your possession will be considered evidence that you practice Necromancy. Although Necromancy is not illegal in Cyrodiil, the Mages Guild has banned Necromancy from the guild. Therefore, carrying Black Soul Gems may have negative consequences." This is not the first time I've seen this exact statement on the UESP and had to delete it. Grandmaster z0b 19:55, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Notes: Greater soul in grand soul gem

I just used a grand soul gem with a captured greater soul (from the unicorn) to make a black soul gem. Seems the Notes section needs updating to reflect that you can use stones filled with souls other than petty and lesser. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.51.37.44 (talk • contribs).

I clarified it. Theoretically, any Grand Soul Gem you fill yourself (with any soul, Petty to Grand) will work, as they all have the same FormID. Pre-filled Soul Gems have different FormIDs, which is why they won't work. However, it is in any case simply a waste of a perfectly good soul to do this. It's just less wasteful to use empty Soul Gems. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 11:07, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Shade of the Revenant - dates...

Could some one confirm that the "Shade of the Revenant" occurs once a week... e.g. once every 7 days - not 8.

The Shade of the Revenant actually occurs every eight days (on the 1st, 9th, 17th, 25th, 33rd, etc. days of the game, using the "Days Passed" statistic on your character's statistics journal page).

should read on the 1st, 8th, 15th, 22nd, 29th, 36th, etc. days of the game

I only ask as I've just turned up to make my first Black Soul gem on day 233 and had to wait 6 days until the light shone... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.67.51.7 (talk • contribs) on 4 June 2007.

After this was first reported here, I tested it multiple times with a few different characters (some starting from day 1, others who were already far into the game), and it was always every 8 days, not every 7 days. And the fact that previously people were reporting seeing the shade of the revenant on multiple possible days of the week also says that if there's any regular pattern, it definitely is not every 7 days. --Nephele^Talk 21:52, 4 June 2007 (EDT)

I Agree i had to wait many-a-days after the "presumed" dates —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.1.239.74 (talk • contribs) on 13 August 2007.

I've never had any problems with the Shade. Occurs every eight days, right on time, for me. -- Darkle 14:24, 13 October 2007 (EDT)

The Shade in fact occurs every 8 days. To see if the day in question will have a shade, just use this "formula": (number in passed days - 1)/7. You get a round number, you get a shade. So to one of the comments above, if you're on day 233 you have to wait 6 days because 239 is a shade day(239-1=238, 238/7=34, a round number), as is 231. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.78.245.170 (talk • contribs) on 5 December 2007.

I was just wondering because, like some of you, i turned up at day 201 and it didn't come. And on the page it has a formula [days pass-1]/8. But in the comment above it says [days pass-1]/7. I was wondering which one is correct because I cant afford waiting (im a vampire) and I need a accurate date.Georgeguy 19:23, 1 May 2009 (EDT)

It's every eight days. We make a point of keeping the articles accurate, but we don't go through and fix people's talk page comments. So when there's a difference between the article and the talk page, it's safe to assume the article is correct. Especially when the person who posted the 1/7 formula isn't even consistent about 7 or 8 days.

Furthermore, the information about every eight days is not just based upon checking with one or two characters (or even a dozen characters, given how many different people have checked this). I've also confirmed it by checking the in-game scripts (for my own future reference, script "NecroAnchoriteQuestScript", which sets the variable "halo"). Although the script is a bit tricky, suggesting perhaps that the developers intended to have the revenant occur every 7 days, the actual coding results in the revenant happening once every eight days.

Only two readers in two years reporting a problem suggests to me that there is not a general problem with the equation -- especially given far more readers reporting during the same period that the equation is correct. If there is some type of discrepancy, it seems more likely to be a relatively uncommon glitch. Furthermore, I'd guess that even if your game has glitched, the revenant still occurs once every eight days -- it's just that the start date has been shifted for some unknown reason. Unfortunately, that would imply that it's not possible to say when the revenant will occur in your game. --Nephele^Talk 22:08, 1 May 2009 (EDT)

Thanks for the reply ↑ i tried both equations anyway and neither of them worked, just another glitch i suppose.Georgeguy19:26, 6 May 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Are black soul gems any better than grand soul gems?

Or is there no point in useing them if you can fill the grand ones easily? Are the enchantments stronger?

Black soul gems are the only soul gems able to capture souls of NPC's, the enchantments are worth the same as a grand soul gem with a grand soul Acheeze 02:00, 8 July 2007 (EDT)

More information here. --Rpeh^Talk 14:17, 8 July 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Different Dates?

Do the dates when the purple light comes down at the altar in Dark Fissure change at random? I was playing on the Xbox 360 version and the light appeared on the 11th at 12 a.m. Wasn't it the 1st, 9th, 17th, and so forth?

What do you mean by the "11th"? The numbers provided are not the days of the month. They are the days relative to the start of the game. As stated in the article, you need to look at the "Days Passed" statistic. --Nephele^Talk 01:33, 10 January 2008 (EST)

[edit] Finding Black Soul Gems

(Moved here from Oblivion talk:Vaermina)

Where is a good place to find a BSG? I'm a warrior with not enough mysticism to cast a soul trap spell and am finding it tedious traveling to all the Necromancer hideouts searching for boss chests with random loot. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.52.5.171 (talk • contribs).

If you do not intend to join the Mages Guild, or at least don't think missing out on the Arcane University is a bad thing for your character, then you may want to pickpocket Falcars Key to obtain his Black Soul Gems in the Mages Guild branch in Cheydinhal (I would appreciate it if someone corrected me if I am wrong). - Korunox 20:34, 24 February 2008 (EST)

Falcar's soul gems are named Black Soul Gems, but they actually function as normal grand soul gems not black soul gems (see Cheydinhal Recommendation). So stealing them and risking ruining the Mages Guild quest line isn't really worth the effort. --Nephele^Talk 21:14, 24 February 2008 (EST)

If I'm not mistaken, you can use a soul trap scroll even if you don't have enough Mysticism for anything else, so it might be best to start hunting around for something like that. I don't believe there are any guaranteed BSGs in the game other than Falcar's (which, as previously mentioned, won't work), and I believe one in the altar after you do the Necromancer's Moon quest which, being a Mage's Guild quest, is probably not high on your list of things to do :) --Robin Hood 21:28, 24 February 2008 (EST).

Alternatively, find someone who sells a low-level Mysticism spell like Minor Life Detection and start casting a lot of those to raise your Mysticism. At the lower levels, it goes up pretty quickly. --Robin Hood 21:32, 24 February 2008 (EST)

Also, searching boss chests for loot will not work, because necromancer boss chests do not contain Black Soul Gems. Only necromancer bosses, not their chests, have a chance of containing a Black Soul Gem. The article has been updated to hopefully make that point more clear. --Nephele^Talk 21:34, 24 February 2008 (EST)

It also depends what you need a Black Soul Gem for. For enchanting objects, black souls are no more effective than grand souls, which are much easier to come by. For Vaermina's quest and for Necromancer's Moon, of course you need a genuine Black Soul Gem, but those are about the only time you do. (Also, the information about Soul Trap scrolls and Mysticism skill is not relevant to this discussion, because the original poster was looking for a soul gem, not an actual soul. You can use an empty one for the quest.) --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 22:06, 24 February 2008 (EST)

Ummm, except that you need a soul trap spell to create a Black Soul Gem at a necromancer altar. So how to get a soul trap spell is somewhat relevant ;) --Nephele^Talk 22:12, 24 February 2008 (EST)

is the any place where a BSG is like in a display case other than in the mages guild quest, because i've completed it and now i can't find any, if the arent do you know of anywhere i can get a soul trap scroll? 90.204.75.110 09:48, 24 March 2008 (EDT)James F90.204.75.110 09:48, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

All that is answered on the page. I don't think I understand you though... Why is a soul trap scroll a substitute for a Black Soul Gem? –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 10:00, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

so you can make one at the necromancer alters, i don't want to sound stupid but i cant find the info on this page about where to buy a scroll90.204.75.110 10:11, 24 March 2008 (EDT)James F90.204.75.110 10:11, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

Ah I see. Well there's a link here, which tells you more and also links to locations for scrolls and spells. You're better off learning the Soul Trap spell yourself or you'll end up spending hundreds on scrolls. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 10:50, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

Also, there's only a single guaranteed Soul Trap scroll (found north of Fort Nikel). Any other Soul Trap scrolls you find are randomly generated, including any scrolls you purchase from merchants. So it's hard to provide a page telling readers where to buy a scroll, because there are no guaranteed locations. --Nephele^Talk 12:40, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Umbra Sword

Would the sword 'umbra' count if you hit the alter with the grand gem inside? Caboose 14:54, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

The altars do not react to handheld weapons, only spells and arrows. Volanaro 14:56, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Application

I've made a small app for calculating when the next Shade occurs, doesnt look very pretty but is quite useful. I'll put it on rapidshare for the time being, but if someone would put it on a more permenant file host, we could put it in the article for the use of anyone who cared to use it.

http://rapidshare.com/files/116068024/SoRCalc.exe.html NIL 12:17, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

I would suggest posting it to The Elder Scrolls Nexus. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 14:03, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Hearthfire?

I thought it was Heartfire. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 122.109.32.113 (talk • contribs).

Nope. Definitely Hearthfire. It's sometimes spelled as two words. See this. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 00:55, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

no... my game says it's Heartfire too, not Hearthfire. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.249.109.183 (talk • contribs) on 21 December 2008.

The name of the month is set by the GMST variable sMonthHeartFire. In the US edition, that variable is set to "Heartfire" (true with or without SI; with or without patches installed). It's possible that the UK edition changed the month's name; nevertheless, based on our spelling guidelines, the article should use the US spelling. --Nephele^Talk 13:53, 1 January 2009 (EST)

[edit] Black Soul Gem Grand Unable To Enchant With

I have been to multiple enchanting ultars one in travens office and one at the arcane chorinasium(sp?) Ithink thats the place anyway, i have 3 with greater and 1 with grand and the grand isn't even showing up in the item list for gems to enchant with. I am trying to enchant a dremora mace any ideas what is going on here?

Could be a quest item, but the most probable answer is a bug. i would just get a grand or black soul gem and capture another soul.Georgeguy 19:28, 1 May 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Black Soul Gem for Enchanting

Does a Black Soul Gem enchant higher than a Grand Soul Gem? I've trapped many human NPC and the soul level is always grand, isn't there a black level soul?

75.108.133.63 00:11, 6 October 2008 (EDT)gold

No, a BSG also holds a Grand soul - the only difference is you can harvest them from NPCs. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 01:06, 6 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Reorganise page?

A minor point, but would it not make sense to put the "Shade of the Revenant" section first, i.e. to set up the background and history, and explain when the ritual can be performed, and then put the Procedure section next, to go into the detail as to what is required?

I read the first section and then came on to the Shade of the Revenant section, expecting something different (such as another way to create a BSG), but then noticed that it was effectively repeating aspects of the first section, talking about the purple light shining down on the altar etc.--90.215.29.168 18:30, 8 January 2009 (EST)

[edit] Item ID

Why isn't that info on this page?

+1 DynV 18:23, 27 February 2009 (EST)

Try this. That info should probably be on this page somewhere, though... --GuildKnight^Talk2me 04:29, 28 February 2009 (EST)

[edit] New picture?

The picture of the black soul gem is a good one, but having it against such a bright background could make almost any soul gem seem dark. Just a thought to maybe show a picture of a black soul gem next to a grand one, just to be sure that the reader sees the difference. And maybe in a more brightly-lit area, without so much contrast. But that's just me being picky. Chunk of Ham 03:51, 22 March 2009 (EDT)

[edit] not working?

Does the soul trap effect need to be on target to work? I've been using an "On Touch" effect wondering whats going on, any ideas? please help. Also I think i'm doing it on the right date, does it happen when my thing says "Days Passed: 161" if not, can someone direct me to when the next one will happen?

With some people (like me) the shade of revelant(sp?) comes at different days. This hasn't been confirmed but I am too waiting on an eighth day and nothing happens. Try this formula {(days passed-1)/7}(if its a whole number the shades on that day) and tell me is it works.

and no it doesn't have to be a target spellGeorgeguy 19:34, 1 May 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Create Infinite Black Soul Gems

(Following moved here from Oblivion:Glitches/Proposed)

First make sure that you are familiar with the normal process of creating black soul gems from grand soul gems. See [1].

Put a stack of grand soul gems into the shrine. Do a Soul trap spell (your choice) on the shrine exactly one less time than there are grand soul gems in the stack. Then pull out the new black soul gems PLUS your original grand soul gems. Important that you remove all your original grand soul gems otherwise the next soul trap spell will give you one additional black soul gem and erase your original stack of grand soul gems as would normally be expected. Repeat as often as you want until the day is over. It is ok to use the same stack of grand soul gems over and over just so long as you remove them and then reinsert them. Also, it is ok to use fewer than the maximum number of soul trap spells but the above explanation is optimal.

For Example, if you put in a stack of 10 grand soul gems. Then cast the soul trap spell of your choice on the alter 9 times. Then open the shrine and pull out the 9 black soul gems and your original 10 grand soul gems. Repeat. Each repetition will produce 9 more black soul gems without destroying your original grand soul gems.

Notes:

- Must follow the normal rules for when the shrine can be used.

- Must follow the normal rules for the type of grand soul gems used.

- Must be a "stack" of grand soul gems of at least 2 but preferably more.

I have had this happen twice now on my original XBOX 360 version. I started off with seven full black soul gems in my inventory as separate items. Somewhere in the process of the sins of the father quest they became stacked. From that point on every NPC I soul trapped was trapped in a black soul gem and I didn't lose any of the original full gems.

[edit] Different start date for the shade of the revenant?

As mentioned here, There may be an uncommon glitch to do with the start date of the Shade of the Revenant. I'm just testing now to determine whether or not it's happening every 7 days for me, or if it's happening every 8 days, but the cycle started later than it should've. The first time I witnessed the Shade, 85 days had passed. (85-1)/7=12, so that makes sense. But i'm just checking when the Shade occurs next. PS3 version. Okay, I waited 7 days, and it didn't occur. I'm guessing that means that the cycle started later than usual. Waiting one more day... Yep, the cycle started 1 day late. The fact that the day divided perfectly by 7 was pure coincidence. So this is an uncommon glitch that makes the cycle start 1 day late, but it still occurs every 8 days after that. Should this be added to the page?Flyingsandwich 04:17, 8 May 2009 (EDT)

Oops, forgot to sign there. Also, I just thought I should add the formula for if the glitch happened.

Where D=days passed stat, and R is any round number: if (D+3)/8=R then Shade=trueFlyingsandwich 04:17, 8 May 2009 (EDT)

I don't think that the change in the start day is standard in the glitch, I just saw the shade on day 132 that doesn't fit any of the formulas—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 190.162.64.74 (talk • contribs) on 5 July 2009.

This has been marked as a question that needs to be answered. I'm pretty sure that serving time in jail upsets the Shade of the Revenant dates. I went to the altar on Day 97 and the purple light didn't show up, so I waited two days and the light appeared on day 99 instead. I then went back to the original save on day 97 and caused some mayhem in Skingrad, earning me two days in jail. When I returned to the altar on Day 99 again, the purple light once more failed to appear. I waited two days again, and the Shade appeared on Day 101. Before this experiment, I had served some jail time before, which I believe screwed it up in the first place. Can anyone else confirm? 68.219.245.122 03:09, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

That's an interesting suggestion that definitely warrants further investigation. I've added the Good Question tag for now. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 07:15, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay, you're definitely right. I got sent to jail for one day and it didn't affect the next Shade, but then I got myself a bounty of 2160 and went to jail for 21 days. I was expecting the next Shade to be on Frostfall 6 (day 41) but it didn't come until Frostall 10 (day 45). It needs some more testing to see exactly how the effect occurs. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 08:01, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Date help!

Im on the 128th day and whens the next Shade? --69.66.129.100 15:47, 10 August 2009 (UTC)mikespartan101

Tomorrow. But see the previous section. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 16:14, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

And one more thing I read the instructions and I waited on a day that is divisible by 8. Help please! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.66.129.100 (talk • contribs) on 10 August 2009.

1) The Day MINUS 1 must be divisible by eight, which is why I said "Tomorrow". But read the previous section. If you've been to prison it could be any time. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 17:10, 10 August 2009 (UTC)