Oblivion talk:Dark Brotherhood

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Archive 1: April 2006 - May 2008

Contents 1 Glitch in abandoned House 2 The Infamy Route 3 Scheduled For Execution in Bastion 4 Cleaning up the List 5 H. P. Lovecraft easter egg? 6 Advancement 7 Mages Hoods are NOT weightless 8 Free Houses

[edit] Glitch in abandoned House

I noticed that the icons for the members respective chests did not have a red steal icon so I stole items, then got kicked out for stealing. Did anyone else find this or can confirm? --Piercethetruth 22:22, 23 November 2007 (EST)

The same thing (lack of red icons) happened to me. In addition, the two chests that I investigated opened right up without the need for picking or a spell even though they were locked. When I took items from the first chest, the Khajit character nearby said it was no concern of his, and I was not expelled, but when I took items from the second chest, I finally was expelled. TeeJay 22:32, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

I am experiencing a quite weird bug in the abandoned house. I can't seem to able to open the door to the sanctuary. I haven't done the quest before so I don't know if there should be a dialogue before I enter or something(or an npc standing by the door) but the door simply won't interact. I used tcl to try and open it from inside but nothing different happened. I also deactivated all mods yet still, the door won't take me to the sanctuary.

Anyone have a clue? 84.254.18.200 09:42, 27 August 2008 (EDT)Mandalore313

[edit] The Infamy Route

I've noticed that in the discussion of the DB, people seem to be uncomfortable with murder... So, I have a suggestion: create a character that is designed for infamy. Make this the character that goes through the DB quests with gusto. That way, since this is designed to be a RP game, you can have a squeaky clean character and a nasty scumbag character. Make 'squeakers' do everything and anything that gives fame points, and make 'scumbagie' do all the fun things you couldn't do as 'squeakers'. Voila, your moral problem is solved, after all, it's all RP, isn't it?

Or, if you want to really mess with people's heads, first check out all the things you can do to gather infamy. Next, do all of those horrible infamy point gathering deeds. And finally, become a pilgrim and lo! Your sins are forgiven, you are freed from all of the infamy points you have gathered. -Annacecilia 01:58, 14 February 2008 (EST)

[edit] Scheduled For Execution in Bastion

Is it true you can run across one of the prison guards in the Bastion? I've never seen him myself. If yes, does he carry a key to get to Valen's cell? If yes, what hours is he in the bastion? --LordDagon 13:14, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

There's a Dungeon Key and the key to Valen's cell on a stool if you turn left when you come out of your old cell. The best part: they don't count as stolen. --Debatra 17:02, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Cleaning up the List

With regard to the cleanup tag, I think the following should come off the list. Please let me know what you think.

Glarthir

It's trickier to get the message here than to just complete the quest.

Faustina Cartia

Ditto. Usually, she attacks you and it doesn't count as murder.

Falcar

I'm not sure this is true. Certainly when I've attacked Falcar in this way it hasn't counted as murder.

Odiil Brothers

Reduces your reward. Enough said.

Honditar

There are only two advanced trainers in Athletics - do you really want to kill one off when there are easier targets?

The comment about the abandoned shack

This will get you kicked out of the Thieves Guild.

The comment about a small village

Far too unspecific and yet obvious.

The comment about random paths

Ditto.

The comment about some enemy NPCs

Unhelpful in the extreme.

The beggars

Can upset the Speechcraft quest as well as various Thieves Guild quests.

The comment about the console

Just shouldn't be on here - it's not a grame-breaking bug.

That's still going to leave a big ol' list. Anybody got any others they think should come off - or do people think some of this list should stay on? –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:21, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

Personally, I'd be in favour of even more extreme deletions. In my opinion, anyone who is needed for any quest or who provides a service should not be on the list. The targets should also be targets in guaranteed locations (e.g., Orc Adventurers with a 25% chance of appearing don't count). In my opinion, a recommended list should be limited to people who are easily available to anyone playing the game, no matter what stage of the game they are at. People who you could walk out of the sewers, immediately go find and kill if you wanted, without any future implications for any quests. Telling a player to complete half of the Fighters Guild quests or the entire Arena questline just to kill a target for the Dark Brotherhood is ridiculous; telling a player to reach level 15 before finding a target is pointless; telling a player that they should have done a quest his/her character completed months ago differently is even more unhelpful.

Instead, there could easily be a blanket statement at the beginning. For example, "Almost any named NPC could be killed if you chose. Several quests involve killing NPCs, any of whom could be used as a target to gain entrance to the Dark Brotherhood. Also, after most quests are completed, people involved in the quest could become valid targets with no subsequent consequences."

By those criteria, the current list becomes very short:

• The Mythic Dawn sleeper agents
• The Skooma Den inhabitants
• Wilhelm the Worm
• Alval Uvani
• Dorian

Although that list is short, it is also more than adequate. It includes people in a range of different cities across Cyrodiil. Most of them can be found in non-public locations (for example, their houses) where they can murdered without a bounty. Many are low-level; others are leveled. So even level one characters could find a low-health target in this list. In other words, if someone is really having a hard time finding a possible target, this list will give them some solid, guaranteed choices. It won't cover everyone's personal favorite targets, but the purpose of the wiki is not to list personal favorites. --Nephele^Talk 13:12, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

I completely agree, although I'd keep The Gray Prince on the list since he's somebody most players will kill anyway. I'd left the list long before as I imagined a big discussion about it. In the absence of any opinions to the contrary, I'll make the change later today. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 02:58, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

[edit] H. P. Lovecraft easter egg?

"The faction gets its name from a short story entitled "The Dark Brotherhood," which was a collaboration between H. P. Lovecraft and August Derleth. In fact, the entire game of Oblivion features references to Lovecraft's fiction peppered throughout."

I move this from the main article, because 1) Can this be proven? and 2) Does it really belong on this page anyways? It seems more like somehitng that would be put on the Easter Eggs page.. Darkle 18:59, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

Lovecraft did write something called "The Dark Brotherhood", and Oblivion does have a few other Lovecraft references(A Shadow over Hackdirt/Innsmouth, etc). Definatley an egg. --Debatra 20:44, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

Alright, thanks. I was mostly just wondering if it was in the right place. Should this be mentioned on the Easter Eggs page then as well? Darkle 20:50, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

I've added it to both pages. Hard to believe that after all this time, people are still finding out new things like this, eh? --Debatra 20:51, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

Yeah I noticed you did right after I asked.. and I'm sure there's still plenty more to find out there too, even after the 2 years it's been out for. Darkle 20:56, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

I'm a little dubious over the veracity of such a claim, mainly because the name is a simple sentence consisting of 2 words; it could merely be coincidence. However, I've encountered difficulty challenging such a claim, generally because I can't find a synopsis of the Lovecraft story anywhere, nor a copy at any of the nearby libraries. If anyone has any further connections between the Lovecraft story and the Dark Brotherhood, then by all means, it's a valid easter egg. Until then I maintain that it's pure coincidence and move for the respective note to be removed from the article. --Saruuk 22:08, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

"The Dark Brotherhood" was also the name given to the cabal of villains in Mark Frost's The List of Seven. You have to admit: it's not a particularly imaginative title for an evil organization. —Dark Spark 01:41, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

After this was added to the page, I thought it probably would've been a good idea to look up Lovecraft's book.. But I ran into the same problem as you, Saruuk. There seems to be no summary of it anywhere. If anyone could provide information as to what it's about, that'd be great. Until then, should we take it back off the page? We'd need to move it off the Easter Egg page too, if we do. Darkle 23:37, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

I've taken the note off. Can we confine this kind of speculation to the talk pages or the Easter Egg page, please? –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 00:50, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Advancement

Shouldn't there be an Advancement section like the other guild page have? I don't know which quests you gain ranks on, so if someone who knows could help out, we could put an advancement table on this page. Daedryon^{•T•C•E•} 05:08, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

Ideally, yes. But there are a few problems with the DB, namely that promotions can happen at different places depending on the results of quests. For information on which quests lead to promotions, look at the Reward param of each quest; they should be listed there. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 05:53, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Mages Hoods are NOT weightless

they're not! D: is there any hood that IS weightless? or headgear? i ask because if there is, that section needs to be fixed, otherwise removed. 172.129.42.113 23:40, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

Mages' Hoods seem to be weightless. Are you sure you have a Mage's Hood? I think there are other hoods that aren't zero-weight. —SolarEquinox 00:13, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

They are indeed weightless. A full list of zero-weight items can be found here. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 00:42, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Free Houses

(moved from the article)

• A few of your target's houses become available to you after the targets are dead. Entering the houses is usually not considered trespassing, and taking any items inside usually isn't considered stealing. This makes them great for extra storage, and they are free. Also, some of the houses are next door to the houses for sale (e.g. Summitmist Manor is across the street from Rosethorn Hall), so they aren't hard to find.

I've moved this because it's really not helpful as it stands. For a start, which houses? Then what does "usually" mean? Lastly, is there any house that's genuinely hard to find? As it stands this comment simply isn't helpful enough to warrant inclusion. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 11:36, 16 November 2008 (EST)

**Possible spoilers alert!**

- First quest - A Watery Grave. You have to kill the captain of the Marie Elena pirate ship. The ship is docked in the Waterfront, fairly close to the Waterfront shack, the House for Sale in the Imperial City.

- Second quest - Accidents Happen. Baenlin's house is right next to the Bruma House for Sale.

- Third quest - Scheduled for Execution. Valen Dreth has no house, so this one probably doesn't count.

- Fourth quest - The Assassinated Man. Francois Motierre's house is next door to Arborwatch, the Chorrol House for Sale.

- Fifth quest - The Lonely Wanderer. Faelian lives at the Tiber Septim hotel in the Talos Plaza district of the Imperial City, too far away from the Waterfront shack, so this is another exception.

- Sixth quest - Bad Medicine. It could be argued that Roderick's 'home' is Fort Sutch, so this is another example of a 'house' that isn't close to a house for sale.

- Seventh quest - Whodunit?. Summitmist Manor is almost directly across the road from Rosethorn Hall, the House for Sale in Skingrad.

- Eighth quest - Permanent Retirement. As far as I know, Adamus Phillida has no house either.

- Ninth quest - The Purification. The Cheydinhal Sanctuary is the home of the Dark Brotherhood members, and it's isn't really that close to the Cheydinhal House for Sale.

- Tenth quest - Affairs of a Wizard. Leafrot Cave, the location of the quest, is where Celedaen resides, far from any civilization.

- Eleventh quest - Next of Kin. Applewatch isn't near any House for Sale, being a farm. Matthias Draconis lives in the Talos Plaza district of the Imperial City, not particularly near the Waterfront shack. Caelia Draconis, as far as I am aware, lives at the Three Sisters Inn in Leyawiin, which is next to the Leyawiin House for Sale, but is not lootable since it is an inn, and not Caelia's personal house. Andreas Draconis lives at the Drunken Dragon Inn, which isn't near any House for Sale. Sibylla Draconis lives in Muck Valley Cavern, which is also too far from any House for Sale.

- Twelfth quest - Broken Vows. J'Ghasta's house is fairly close to the Bruma House for Sale, being just down the road.

- Thirteenth quest - Final Justice. Shaleez appears to have no home other than the Flooded Mine, which isn't particularly near any settlements.

- Fourteenth quest - A Matter of Honor. Alval Uvani's rented property in Leyawiin is a short walk away from the House for Sale in Leyawiin.

- Fifteenth quest - The Coldest Sleep. Havilstein Hoar-Blood lives at Gnoll Mountain in the Jerall Mountains, far from any settlement.

- Sixteenth quest - A Kiss Before Dying. Ungolim's house is on one side of Bravil, and the House for Sale is on the other side, across the river.

- Optional quest - Th Renegade Shadowscale. Scar-Tail's camp is not near any settlements with a House for Sale.

Any quests after this do not target NPCs with houses, as far as I am aware. Hopefully this clears things up a little! --Lady Azura 19:27, 16 November 2008 (EST)