Oblivion talk:M'raaj-Dar

Changed Top Header

I changed the top header so that it's neutral grey, makes more sense, I think. Trying to think about how the red and green text you have on the other spell pages would fit in here, since the spell names are links, and therefore blue. Might be possible to work around that... --TheRealLurlock 22:06, 3 July 2006 (EDT)

Spoiler

• "Ironically, as soon as you get the quest to kill him he becomes friendly to you." - This was a very nice and unexpected spoiler, thank you very much. --194.251.240.113 08:56, 14 September 2007 (EDT)

Well, we try our best. You're welcome. =P --Saruuk 09:15, 14 September 2007 (EDT)

The whole site is full of spoilers. It is quite Ironic that you rant about a site that you use. Thanks. --Playjex 08:59, 14 September 2007 (EDT)

The Unwelcome Guest

The underlying magnitude of this spell is 12pts, which should translate to "very easy" lock; yet it's been reported that it is actually an "open easy lock" spell. I'll doublecheck the points/lock difficulty conversion, but in the meantime can anyone else confirm how this spell works? --Nephele 16:36, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

Where exactly is the cut-off between "very easy" and "easy"? It's not commonly known that many locks are leveled, and there are more degrees of "locked-ness" than just Very Easy, Easy, Average, Hard, and Very Hard. The value can scale from 1 to 99 (100 needs a key), so it may be possible that SOME easy locks can be opened with this spell, but not others. Since I think this is the only purchasable Open spell that isn't at one of the set values, it would probably straddle that gap in that way. --TheRealLurlock 17:07, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

For the record, the standard "Open Very Easy Lock" spell has a magnitude of 7pts. So presumably, somewhere between 7 and 12, a lock could be opened with this spell but not the standard one. However, the standard "Open Easy Lock" spell is 20pts, so this is sort of just below half-way between them. It would be best termed as "Open Very Easy and a Half Lock". Still not sure where the cut-off point is, but it's clearly different for the number of tumblers in a lock than it is for the magnitude of the Open spell. --TheRealLurlock 18:21, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

I like this idea. So presumably, there's some type of equation that sets the difficulty of all the levelled locks you encounter. For example, say the equation is difficulty=3xlevel. In that case, when you go from level 2 to level 3 most of the locks would turn into "easy locks". However, The Unwelcome Guest would still work because its magnitude is 12. At level 5, The Unwelcome Guest would cease to work, even though the locks still say that they are "easy locks", because now their magnitude is 15, and therefore too difficult for this spell. Again, I just made up the equation I used here so I could provide an example. But the general idea would explain what the magnitudes of open/lock spells really mean. --Nephele 18:41, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

One more question: could someone actually check how this spell is described in game? I haven't done the dark brotherhood quests yet, so I haven't seen it in game. Regardless of the behind-the-scene mechanics of how it works, the effect description provided on this page should be set to match the description used in the game. In other words, in the game does it say "open easy lock" or "open very easy lock" next to the spell's name? --Nephele 19:03, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

For the record, it says "Open Easy Lock", but my guess is that it will not work on ALL Easy Locks, only on the "easier" Easy Locks. For this reason, I think that every Open spell whenever listed should have the numeric value written as well, because there IS a difference, and the standard Open Easy Lock spell will probably open doors that this will not. --TheRealLurlock 19:16, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

At the same time, I decided to answer my own question, and joined the DB. It is actually called "Open Easy Lock on Touch", which also makes it the only on-touch open spell available in the game, and in turn explains why its magicka cost is cheaper than expected. --Nephele 19:20, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

And as for the description of the spell, the listings on Oblivion:Spells and Oblivion:List of Spells by Effect do include the point values for each open spell.--Nephele 19:22, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

Hmm, that's odd. Looking at in the Construction Set, it's listed as "On Target", with a casting cost of 15, not 10. Additionally, you actually CAN'T make an Open spell be "On Touch". Just try it. It won't let you. Even if you start with another effect, set it to Touch, and change it back to Open, it will always choose Target for the Open effect. I wonder if it's just a matter of the CS and the game not interpreting it the same way... --TheRealLurlock 21:58, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

It appears that one of the addons or patches changes this spell to be on Target as that is what is now showing for the spell's tooltip. I've got the Frostcrag, Mehrunes Razor, Knights of the Nine, Orrery, Shivering Isles, Spells Tome, Thieves Den, and the Vile Lair addons (plus the associated Unofficial patches for them) and 1 player addon called True Retroactive Health. I have the Horse Armor and Stronghold addons installed but not active.--Ewolfg1 (talk) 07:44, 10 December 2014 (GMT)

Investing in M'rraj-Dar

I just joined the DB and was buying his items, and realized I wasn't able to invest in his store. Anyone else notice this? And yes I DO have the skill perk. --Piercethetruth 22:04, 23 November 2007 (EST)

Correct. It is not possible to invest in M'raaj-Dar. He is one of five merchants in the game who do not have the investment dialogue, although it was overlooked until now because M'raaj-Dar was also missing from the Merchants page used to check availability of investing. --Nephele^Talk 02:38, 6 December 2007 (EST)

bug?

i'm on ps3 goty and 2 of my characters have joined db and neither of them have been able to buy/sell any items from md; i can do spells just fine but somewhy i don't get a barter icon.

Me neither! what the hell? This guy is already dead, now I learn that he was supposed to sell stuff? He never sold anything to me! No barter icon, just spells! crap! WRFan 14:57, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh, for God's sake! He does sell items, but the barter icon is where usually the dispo button is located, so I overlooked it! So I simply went back to the sanctuary, and resurrected this guy through the console, bought the items, then killed him again through the console. lol. WRFan 15:41, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Foul Smelling Ape..

This is something he says when when you finish talking to him the times when he hates you. Even though I play an Argonian, he still calls me this. It's sort of comedic, but is worth mentioning? I'm just curious. Music is Life. Life is Fun. Listen to Ska! 17:27, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

He'll call any non-Khajiit the same thing. I don't think he's studied Darwin, so doesn't seem to care if the player may have actually derived from apes or not. As for whether it's worth mentioning, my vote would be "probably not", but there's been some suggestion of including unique dialogue in character descriptions, so perhaps if such a section is later added, it would make sense. For right now, I think it would probably be too weak to stand on its own in the article. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 15:50, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

What does he say if you are a Khajiit? Ghworg 21:44, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

"Away from me, housecat! Look at that fur. What a disgrace..." –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 02:40, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

Lol. Zander 10:56, 6 October 2008 (EDT)

items

i was buying from him the other day and i noticed that the items he sells both non random and random respawn do you think this should be mentioned — Unsigned comment by 92.234.125.230 (talk) on 13 April 2009

That's a good spot. I'll add it to the article. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 10:30, 13 April 2009 (EDT)

where is his vendor chest?

where is his Vendor Chest, is it the one in the living quarters? — Unsigned comment by Repeater (talk • contribs) on 18 April 2009

It's a few feet behind the wall near Ocheeva's bed. Most vendor chests are in inaccessible locations and this is a typical example. You can get to it on the PC using the tcl console code. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:22, 18 April 2009 (EDT)

Purchasing items not possible

I'm on the Purification quest and he's become friendly with me. Now, I need to buy his stuff before killing him as article says, but for some reason none of his icons, including the "barter"-icon is "clickable". So I basically can't buy things from him. Why? I'm on Xbox 360 by the way. Thanks! SwedishBerzerker at youtube.com 10:25, 26 May 2009 (EDT) EDIT: Sorry, I have now read the article more throroughly. SwedishBerzerker at youtube.com 06:01, 27 May 2009 (EDT)

Should it be mentioned, that after the Purification Quest you can still buy most of the items from the female DB Murderer that appears in the DB Sanctuary living quarters when you complete the quest line? 68.97.176.224 18:32, 24 June 2009 (UTC)\

Are you sure about that? I've had countless past games where all the female murderer would sell me were the spells. 24.233.128.66 15:26, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Black winter

It seems that this spell is acually cheaper than the equivalent one at the enchanting altar. WIth 100 illusion and 40 destruction, black winter costs 40 magicka, while an equivalent spell costs 75.— Unsigned comment by 91.109.166.198 (talk) on 25 Aug 2009

Your numbers seem a little off. Are you saying that his spell is actually cheaper? If so, can you provide solid numbers for the spell costs? Thanks! –Elliot ^talk 01:15, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Dialogue Question

I see that rpeh has just checked the dialogue for M'raaj; I've read it through and it seems fine. However, I'm pretty sure that if you asked about rumors he would say something along the lines of: "I heard the sanctuary's newest addition is an idiot" Also, we could include what he says when leaving conversation, which differs if you're khajiit or not, which was something like "foul-smelling ape" or "look at that fur". --SerCenKing ^Talk 17:02, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Yep, you can actually find all that dialogue in an older version of the page. I just didn't include it in the new version since I thought it wasn't too relevant, but I'm okay if you add it back again. I mean, it's not like the page would be too affected. Oh, and about he rumors, it seems that the KotN affects these fellows as well, since M'raaj-Dar would only talk about the Anvil Chapel Attack when asked about rumors. I'm suspecting that Gogron is affected too, since in the older version it stated that Gogron said that he had Telaendril's garments to prove their relation. However, I never found any piece of dialogue while writting them, except the rumors section, which again, got substituted by the standard KotN rumors. We could use a little revision from the CS here :P --S'drassa ^•T2M 19:21, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

There's actually quite a lot more dialogue but most of it is quest-related, barter-related, greeting-related or otherwise not too important - bar two or three that maybe should go on.

• Just take your trinkets and go!
• You've got yourself a deal, idiot. Now I can sell it for 5 times its worth.
• You ripped me off blind. I hope you're happy with yourself
• Ha! You've got to be kidding me.
• By Sithis, I don't have all day! Hurry it up!
• I have it on good authority that the newest addition to the Brotherhood is an annoying whelp unworthy of licking my boots. How's that for gossip?
• The Black Hand is trying to keep it very hush hush, but one of their own has been assassinated! It would seem the Brotherhood has been infiltrated.
• Foul-smelling ape...
• Away from me, housecat! Look at that fur. What a disgrace...
• Until we meet again, my dear friend!
• Get away from me....
• Ah, there you are! It's good to see you again! No, really, I mean it!
• Ooh, a secret assignment, you say? Come on, can't you give your old pal Mraaj-Dar a hint? Who do you have to kill? Anyone I know? Ha ha ha ha!

That's the rest of it. With hindsight, the two rumors ("I have it on good authority..." and "The Black Hand is trying to ...") should probably go on. Maybe the three greetings... I'll let you all decide. rpeh •T•C•E• 19:47, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Persuasion Issue

I don't think this qualifies as a bug. It's very plainly obvious that M'raaj-Dar hates the player, period. So it wouldn't make the least bit of sense to be able to persuade him. I think that bug should be removed. Arthmoor 01:52, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree that it's not clearly a bug, but it's probably important to note, so I moved it up to the Notes section. – Robin Hood↝talk 17:52, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Atypical items in merchant inventory equals game freeze

After starting The Purification quest line, I noticed M'raaj-Dar began offering a few items for sale they he normally doesn't, such as food (apples, meat) & non-magical clothing (black wide pants). Whenever I tried to buy such items, the game froze up. Anyone else encounter this? I was still able to purchase the weapons he offered.--149.160.118.185 14:29, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

There is no way that these items could just randomly appear in his inventory without mod issues or a faulty disc... --DKong27 ^{Talk Cont} 18:30, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

The only mods I have are KotN & SI (360).--149.160.118.185 18:28, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

M'raaj Dar's "Stock/Inventory"

I need to know if M'raaj Dar sells more than his high level spells, enchanted items,etc. It is funny when I duplicate my enchanted items to sell to him because it looks like it is his when sold. What i mean is, when i sell him the items, they go straight to his inventory, and because they are enchanted it looks like they were his and not mine. But that aside, does he make his smaller selection worth while, because if his inventory cannot respawn, then he would have nothing but your random items that you sold......just let me know. His page doesnt seem to show this or have a section labeled a possible "Inventory". It does show what he sells though, and it seems like enchanted arrows (most likely leveled items) are his thing.

LukaSlayer13 19:20, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Where did his items go?

I can bring up the shop and spell lists, but the shop has several missing items -- it has none of the armors! The first time i went it did, and then never again. Whyfor? :( 74.128.56.194 15:23, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

I have this problem also, I'm trying to get the Eye Of Sithis. It was originally there the first time I looked at his stock. I've reset his inventory several times and all the times he has no armour at all. I'm using the unofficial patches, latest official patch and official mods (nothing else). --89.240.251.197 17:09, 1 January 2013 (GMT)

Figured out what's causing this for me. This seems to be caused by the unofficial patch. When M'raaj-Dar is in the main part of the Sanctuary he will sell the special items. When he is in the living quarters he will only show the other items.--89.240.251.197 18:23, 1 January 2013 (GMT)

I confirmed this bug in-game and added it to the article. The training room is also affected, so you need to catch him walking between those two areas in order to buy the items. —Legoless (talk) 17:27, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

the edit by Nicholasemjohnson

There is nothing wrong with his editing of the text. In fact his version is more detailed than the previous version (so I really don't understand how you think it's better than his addition to it?). By undoing his edit all you have done is created unnecessary revisions of that page (which are compounded even further by me changing it back and adding this note to the talk page to explain why I undid the undo. Just because you can undo someone's changes doesn't mean you should. If you really do feel the old text was better, I'd love to hear why you think it's better than the text he added.--Ewolfg1 (talk) 15:45, 24 January 2015 (GMT)

I reverted the edit in question because it struck me as a bit informal for an encyclopedia article. The job of articles is to describe characters and events in the game objectively, not to provide commentary. Ironic though the situation may be, adding commentary like that makes the tone of the passage less formal, which goes against what we typically try to do with these articles. Zul se onikaan^{Laan tinvaak} 22:16, 27 January 2015 (GMT)

He didn't provide any commentary and this isn't an encyclopedia it's a wiki. What he did do is specify when the character has a "change of heart" towards the player. If it reeeeeeeally bothers you that he included the word "ironic" then simply remove it, but don't go around disrespecting a person's time and effort by undo'ing their entire contribution just because you disagree with the wording of 1 small part of it.--Ewolfg1 (talk) 03:38, 28 January 2015 (GMT)

According to the style guide, UESPWiki content should be written in a style appropriate for an encyclopedia. The way Forfeit edited the page is a much more appropriate way of phrasing it, as it provides information without commentating. As you yourself said, this is a wiki, which means that anyone can edit it, but we still have policies and guidelines that dictate a preferred style. If edits are made that don't conform to that style, the expectation is that they will either be reverted or altered so that the proper style is followed. Zul se onikaan^{Laan tinvaak} 03:45, 28 January 2015 (GMT)