Oblivion talk:Staves

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Contents 1 Page Rename? 2 Mage's Staff and leveled damage 3 When is the magnitude fixed? 4 Centered tables? 5 Charges 6 Concerning value of staves 7 Staff of Banishment discussion 8 Page missed 9 Staff of Nenalata; No duration for Drain Willpower effect? 10 Test Staff 11 Leveling.. 12 Stolen Staffs

[edit] Page Rename?

I think this page should be renamed, as it only talks about Mage's Staves, and as far as I know there isn't a page that talks about other magical staves. Apotheosis, Hrormir's Icestaff, and a bunch of quest-specific ones should be on there. Or should they just go to the Unique Items page instead? (Either in the Weapons section, or make a new section just for staves.) Discuss. -- TheRealLurlock 20:02, 3 June 2006 (EDT)

I agree - this page should be named "Mage's Staff" or something in that manner, and the other unique quest-related staves should go into Unique Items. I know this is also a unique quest-related staff, but since it is so special, and since there is so much info about it, I think it deserves its own page. --MiSP 13:57, 4 June 2006 (EDT)

I had to actually go back and check my original plan to answer this one :-). The original concept I had was that all staves would be recorded on the Oblivion:Staves page, including unique and leveled ones, otherwise they would be included as a subcategory on all the other pages, including all this page's content rolled into the Magic Items page. --Thehankerchief 19:22, 4 June 2006 (EDT)

Hmm, makes sense. But what can one do when the same information is needed (e.g. the specs of a staff) at many pages? Is it possible to change information one place, and have it be automatically changed on other pages? I assume templates won't do when the information in many pages actually is a part of a table... --MiSP 13:24, 6 June 2006 (EDT)

I don't undertsant where you want to duplicate information. Maybe I didn't explain it clearly enough, but the options I gave didn't involve duplication. Either 1. All staves (random, unique, leveled, etc..) are on this Oblivion:Staves page or 2. This page doesn't exist, and staves are covered as subcategories on the existing pages.

Hmm, OK, I see now. :-) But if this staff should be rolled into the Magic Items page, then shouldn't that logically also count for all magic items, including enchanted weapons? ...No wait, the staffs only deal magical damage. Is that it? Please tell me I finally understood something. :-) --MiSP 06:09, 10 June 2006 (EDT)

Let's just do my original plan. Put all staves on this Oblivion:Staves page, no matter if they are random, unique or whatever. There is only one leveled staff, and it is currently on the leveled items page. I don't care really where that one item is located, or if its info is duplicated. --Thehankerchief 19:35, 10 June 2006 (EDT)

Correction, there are three levelled staves. I put them all up on the bottom. Will do unique and/or random staves later if I feel like it, but the random staves section is going to be pretty big. You sure you don't want to have that on its own page? -- TheRealLurlock 22:10, 10 June 2006 (EDT)

Ah, you're right I forgot about the other 2 leveled staves. As long as we don't make a giant list of every staff object, it should be fine. There are good ways to consolidate the random items. There are 209 Staves in the game. 36 are the mages guild reward staves. 16 are the leveled staves. About 138 are random magic staves, which are mostly denoted by the fact that their enchantment is called "EnStaff?????", like "EnStaffParalyzeAreaGreater". This makes cataloguing these items much simpler. As a bonus, the staves have the Greater/Lesser descriptor prefix attached to their names. If you go to the Magic Items page, you can see how I greatly reduced the list of enchanted rings by specifying the enchantment table and describing most rings as Lesser/Normal/Greater of Whatever. That should be the best way to handle random items simply because they usually share such uniformity. --Thehankerchief 17:56, 11 June 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Mage's Staff and leveled damage

If the damage done by Mage's Staff varies depending on level, wouldn't it be better to wait until level 15 to get most damage? It seems like if you join the Mages' Guild right away, you'll get a staff that becomes unusable pretty quick...

Following this line of thought, you should spend first 20 levels doing nothing but raiding random non-quest dungeons because quests give best rewards later. If you play with the difficulty somewhat up (like a the OOO mod) every help in early stages of game becomes invaluable, and later you can get enough of powerful items from random encounters or open extra routes to get them (enchanting, spellmaking) anyway. Even if the staff becomes obsolete 3 levels later, it will be invaluable during these 3 levels. As opposed to when obtained much, much later.

Also, under Illusion and Mysticism, the Magnitude needs to be filled in (the only thing explained is the level classification).

"Magical Staffs are always enchanted" - well, duh ;) --FMan 18:25, 1 May 2006 (EDT)

Corrected it now. =) --MiSP 12:26, 2 May 2006 (EDT)

That magnitude data is in the construction set, but I can't dig it out right now. Posting from work. Quillan^Talk 13:23, 2 May 2006 (EDT)

Just out of curiosity... Can the Unfinished Staff be enchanted? Don't remember if it's actually a staff (ie. equippable), did that quest a very long time ago Lisan al Gaib 10:09, 16 January 2007 (EST)

It's equippable and can be enchanted. I guess it'll screw up the quest if you enchant it and rename it, though.Tentacle 14:51, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Update - the staff has an odd quirk, being that if you attack someone with it (after you've enchanted it) it's not registered as an assault. You still get a bounty for killing people with it though.

If you ever wanted to enchant your own Mage's staff, you could use one of the duplication cheats to duplicate the "Unfinished Staff" and continue the Mage's Guild Quest Line. I haven't tried this, I'm just suggesting it so it might not work.

[edit] When is the magnitude fixed?

This page is shaping up nicely, but it still needs some work. One thing is the columns I've added, and another thing is when the magnitude of the effect is fixed; is it calculated from your level when you hand in the unfinished staff, or your level when you enchant it? My guess is the last one, but I can't confirm it. --MiSP 18:23, 3 May 2006 (EDT)

The only way I can think of to confirm is to save the game before handing in, when you are level 4, 9 or 14. Pick it up before you gain a level and note the stats. Reload, gain a level, then pick it up and see if it's different. I tend to think it's the moment you open the cupboard to get the finished staff, but I haven't checked. Quillan^Talk 18:38, 3 May 2006 (EDT)

Definitive answer - Well, I tested it earlier. I ran three test handins. In all three I was level 14 when I handed in the unfinished staff, requesting a silence staff each time. In the first test I was level 14 when I picked it up. In the second test I was still level 14 but ready for level 15 (only needing 1 hour of rest) when I picked it up. In both of these cases I got the level 10-14 staff. In the third test I had already advanced to level 15 when I went back to pick it up, and I got the level 15 staff instead. Quillan^Talk 21:46, 5 May 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Centered tables?

The centered tables look a little... out of place. Sure, aligned to the left it did not look that good, but now it's just wierd. --MiSP 04:39, 4 May 2006 (EDT)

OK, I'll just make them equal in size and get rid of centering. User MXI 04:43, 4 May 2006 (EDT)

Is there any rationale for having all these tables so narrow? It's kind of irritating to only have word per line in the effect descriptions, when the tables could just be full page width. --Nephele 11:17, 2 August 2006 (EDT)

I assume you're referring to the Mages Staves? I figure since all of the staves in a given chart have the same effect, just differing potency/duration, it's just redundant to have the effect listed 4 times in each chart. I don't know. Might make sense to spell everything out just to be consistant with the other item pages. But it's hardly a critical issue. You can figure out everything you need to know from the page as is... --TheRealLurlock 13:04, 2 August 2006 (EDT)

I didn't mean the content of the tables, but the format: all of the tables specify width=30%. At least in IE (and I'm pretty sure in mozilla too), that makes the tables all ridiculously narrow. For the Staff of Indarys, for example, the effects are written out with one word on each line, so each entry is eight lines tall instead of just two lines. It makes the tables unnecessarily awkward to read. --Nephele 13:13, 2 August 2006 (EDT)

This is not happening here, maybe just an IE thing. However, the last change you made was not a good one. The "Other" section now forces everything to be in one line, making the chart twice the width of the page, so you have to scroll right to read it. I don't think any page should ever require horizontal scrolling. --TheRealLurlock 15:11, 2 August 2006 (EDT)

Ugh, trying to get pages to look right in all the different browsers is really annoying. On IE, it's wrapping the text in the notes part of the table to fit the specified column width.... I took out the line breaks that were in there because then it was putting in double line breaks all over the place. I'm about to go to the office, where I can check the appearance in a few different browsers simultaneously; I'll try to play with things there and see if there's some way to make all the browsers happy. --Nephele 15:20, 2 August 2006 (EDT)

Heh. You should probably get Firefox at home anyhow. Trust me, you'll never look back. But, yeah, it's good to keep a copy of IE around, because we can't guarantee that nobody is using it. --TheRealLurlock 15:36, 2 August 2006 (EDT)

OK, should look better now. The culprit was the "style:nowrap" tag which, you guessed it, turned off wrapping. So this page now looks acceptable in two versions of mozilla I've got here at work (one firefox, one older). Now having spent my entire day staring at these tables, I'm questioning whether everything should be center-aligned. Yep, I never know when to say enough's enough. So I might still fiddle some more. --Nephele 16:34, 2 August 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Charges

Well, so far everything confirmed has been 40 uses. I expect all of them will turn out the same. Should we go ahead and fill in the missing data with those values, or leave them as question marks until they are confirmed? Quillan^Talk 14:00, 6 May 2006 (EDT)

I'd say we leave them as question marks until properly confirmed. --MiSP 09:40, 7 May 2006 (EDT)

Hey, um... The amount of charge on each of the staves is easily accessed in the Construction Set. I don't think we need to see them in-game to believe it. Might as well fill it in. (Using the numbers from the CS is certainly more valid than just assuming they'll all be 40 uses, though I'd say at this point it's quite likely they will be.) -- TheRealLurlock 22:56, 11 June 2006 (EDT)

Then you can fill it in, can't you? :-) --MiSP 05:45, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

Sure, will do. Just didn't want to upset anyone since there was an open question on the subject. -- TheRealLurlock 18:36, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

And sure enough, they do all have 40 uses - with one exception, the second Dispel staff. I'm almost certain it's a bug, and I put a disclaimer there to indicate that. So for future reference, if you want a Dispel staff, don't get it at level 5-9. Incidentally, if anybody knows a good reliable way to calculate the values, please do so. Not just on the Mage's Staves, but on all the other staves I added lower down. I never quite figured out how that works. -- TheRealLurlock 18:47, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Concerning value of staves

Is the value of the staves their base value? Remember to multiply the value so that you get 100 %. If you sell an item at 50 % value (haggle) for 500 gold, its base value is 1000 gold. --MiSP 11:51, 2 June 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Staff of Banishment discussion

I did some quick research, and found some info in the editor when searching for "Banishment".

Fist off, you have the weapon (image), Staff of Banishment. There is no script assigned to it, but it has an enchantment, EnStaffBanishment. The enchantment (image) lists three effects: Invisibility, Paralyze and Banishment. The Banishment effect does not have a script assigned to it (it is listed as Banishment : NONE), images of the effect item here and here. Lastly, there is the script, image can be found here. It's fairly straightforward, except that I don't know what the SetGhost command does. I assume it is something along the lines of Invisibility and Paralyze combined.

I really don't know why they put an effect in there that is neither assigned to any script nor any normal effect. Even stranger is it that there actually exists a script obviously meant for it. A bug, perhaps? (I'm running the 1.1.511 patch).

Any thoughts? --MiSP 04:42, 26 August 2006 (EDT)

It seems, that Banishment enchantment turns person into a ghost for a limited amount of time. For example of ghost, four ghost blades in the main storyline quest at Sancre Tor. (Blood Of The Divines). Or, as a more colorful example, Erandur-Vangaril lich at the end of Lost Boy Cavern. Unless you visit him at 23+ level, he is ghost, which means he can`t be fought. According to what experimentation could be performed, ghosts are corporeal, and can not be attacked. (Do not confuse with monster ghosts. Those with SetGhost 1 are completely impervious to anything, it seems. Perhaps, a fall into "bottomless" ravine can be still fatal, but that`s it, as far as it looks like, now.)

Alice Shade

Banishment turns a person into a ghost that can't be fought? you mean a different kind of ghost as opposed to normal ghost that cannot be slain? --Brightone 06:06, 7 October 2006 (EDT)

Anyone familiar with Dungeon's and Dragons would recognise what this is trying to achieve instantly =p - Banishment in that sense sends the subject to another plane (Usually to their home plane as per the spell of the same name) either temporarily or permanently. A look in the toolset shows Banishment itself is a custom spell with no script, either by accident or design. But the invisibility and paralyse effect from the staff is obviously to give the *illusion* that the target creature is displaced (banished) elsewhere for a duration, since paralysed and invisible it's as good as gone to the observer.

The banishment script is more likely a simple error or oversight... maybe the staff was never finished and only snuck into the final game by mistake? The ghost command would also render the target invunerable, so if the player tried attack the visible target they would do no damage either (because for gameplay purposes there target isn't actually there, it's banished) --Ryuujin 20:23, 7 October 2006 (EDT)

Prephaps it means banish daedra like Mehrunes Razor does. --Anvil 16:45, 22 December 2006 (EDT)

Someone (with better CS skills than I have) Ought to set the effect to run the aforementioned script, then give themselves the staff in-game using player.additem whatever, and try it out. That'd probably be the best way to figure out what it does. 24.137.65.32 15:45, 31 January 2007 (EST)

Having played with the staff a little the only effect I have noticed myself is that the target becomes lootable as if being pickpocketed, even when you're not in stealth, for the duration of the effect. - Irbeth

Check the Staff of Sheogorath Script; the "staff of banishment"'s banishment script might have the same effect. -Aeroice 20:57, 31 May 2007 (EDT)

I think the ghost command was meant to make the character uninteractable. This link wasn't established when the staff was being created, and the banishment enchantment did nothing. Also, Irbeth, any humanoid can be looted while they're paralyzed or knocked down. Shadownet Ninja 00:22, 25 August 2007 (EDT)

It seems quite straightforward to me: the developers wanted to make a "banishment" spell for the Staff, but the only way they found was a mix of Invisibility (so it'd disappear) and paralyse (so it'd stay still and harmless until visible). I think they intended to make it show only "Banishment", but mustn't have found a way or just forgot about it... That's my best guess, but I think they could just have mixed those two spells into a scripted one, don't know if it'd work, tough. ^{—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.154.199.127 (talk • contribs).}

Ok, I didn't really find it hard to figure out what the Staff of Banishment does. It says that it casts Invisibility, Paralysis, and Banishment. What the staff does is it temporarily "Banishes" someone from existence. They cannot be seen, they cannot move, and they cannot be touched. It can also be used for protection (even though friendly NPC's will find this to be an assault). Plus, the paralysis effect lets you take any un-equipped items from the person you hit with the staff. ^{—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.108.252.47 (talk • contribs).}

[edit] Page missed

Page is not loading after my last edit. Help :( ^{—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Den (talk • contribs).}

It loaded for me. :| --Aristeo 16:13, 23 October 2006 (EDT)

--Den 03:46, 23 October 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Staff of Nenalata; No duration for Drain Willpower effect?

I just noticed how the Drain Willpower effects of the Staff of Nenalata have no duration. This checks with the data from the Construction Set. Doesn't this mean that the effect has no impact at all? I think a note should be placed for this staff explaining readers that the Drain Willpower effect has no meaning at all without a duration. --Timenn < talk > 08:20, 16 December 2007 (EST)

Good point. Given that a few people have now confirmed that zero duration weapon enchantments do absolutely nothing (at least for effects require a duration), it would probably be useful to go through and add some type of note to all the weapons that have zero duration enchantments. See for example Oblivion Talk:Leveled Items#Shadowhunt or Oblivion Talk:Mace of Molag Bal. --Nephele^Talk 12:45, 16 December 2007 (EST)

[edit] Test Staff

In the Testing Hall, there is an item called 'Test Staff', which seems to be the texture for all staves that aren't unique designs. I was just wondering if this item had a console code, and if it could be enchanted, because that would be a most excellent way of making your own staves. Thanks.

There's TestStaff (00015f2d) and TestStaff03 (0009d9da). I don't know for sure that either can be enchanted but there's no obvious reason why it shouldn't be possible. The other option would be the Unfinished Staff from the Mages Guild quests (000355a6); it has a health of 900 so should produce better finished products. —Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:53, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Excellent - thanks for those, I'll give them a go. I presume their healths are both 100? I've read about the 900 health of the unfinished staff, but it looks a little crummy; like someone has cut the branches off the top and shoved a rubber band around it ;)

Yup - both the test staves are health 100. —Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:45, 2 January 2008 (EST)

I've had a play around with this, and the results are frustratingly close to being awesome. Both these test staves (the unfinished one doesn't show up on the list) can be enchanted. The maximum in terms of power they can be enchanted with is 114 points of Destruction magic. So more than the best staves in the game, including Apotheosis. However, it's all for nothing, because the enchantment only works in a 'touch' capacity. In other words, the lightning/fireball/whatever other spell you use won't fly out of the end of the staff. There's no opportunity to select a 'target' option either, unless I'm missing something. Alas - thought I was onto something there for a moment :)

Still, 114 points of destruction magic is very powerful, even if you have to use it at close range.--Willyhead 16:36, 2 January 2008 (EST)

[edit] Leveling..

If you use a stave repeately will you get any skill points?

Good question. You won't get any blunt or blade points but I suppose you might get magic skill points. Maybe somebody could check. I'd do it myself but my game is guaranteed to crash if I try that... –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 02:50, 11 February 2008 (EST)

No. I cleared entire planes of Oblivion with a shock staff and did not earn any destruction points.

[edit] Stolen Staffs

I found all the goblin totem staffs and droped then all in cloud ruler temple hoping the goblins might come and attack, so to make a war, but i went to bruma and when i came back they were gone. I later saw, walking around Cyrodiil people with goblin totem staffs on there back, i found people in the impierial city, anvil and bravil and i was just wondering how did they get them? ^{—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Marleysexton (talk • contribs).}

Maybe a traveling merchant came in, took all of the staves, and sold them to random people in the entire game. This is just a guess, because I have encountered traveling merchants when traveling around the map. ^{—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.108.252.47 (talk • contribs).}

There are no traveling merchants unless you use a mod. I imagine that is what happened here, because otherwise contact between CRT and the rest of the world is minimal. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:48, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Actually there is one traveling merchant in the game (as far as I know). He is part of the Dark Brotherhood Quest Line. It is when you get a dead drop to kill a Dark Elf that is a Master in Destruction Magic. ^{—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.108.252.47 (talk • contribs).}

That's Alval Uvani, and he's not a merchant. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 00:26, 30 June 2008 (EDT)