Oblivion talk:Turning a Blind Eye
Does anyone have any idea why I got this quest last night, when playing a level 15 spellsword who is not (nor has ever been) a member of the Thieves Guild? I was heading to my hovel in the waterfront when Methedrel said "I've been looking for you!", so I stopped and talked to her. The conversation started this quest. — Unsigned comment by Quillan (talk • contribs) on 12. April 2006
 Hint on gaining the stone without fighting (and probably killing) the guard monk
If this is considered helpful, someone with better english than mine might be so nice as to move the useful parts to the main article.
I used the "Flare" spell, but probably any destructive spell and perhaps even bow and arrows could work.
Remember to always sneak during this. When entering the cavern sneak directly right along the wall until you reach position (a) now sneak toward the edge of the upper level (b) and cast "Flare" spells on the stone until the impacts drive the stone from the altar (1) to the floor (2). Now sneak back to the wall (a) and then clockwise along the wall until you reach position (c). Again sneak to the edge (d) and drive the stone from the platform (2) to the ground (3). Return to the wall and follow it to position (e). Now move to the edge where it is broken to a "ramp" leading down. Sneak down, grab the stone and return to the ramp. Near the column you can enter the ramp even when sneaking and so return to (e). Now leave the cavern through the nearby exit.
--The Nerevarine 14:47, 18 April 2006 (EDT)
- Alternatively a moment of invisiblity will help - I managed to just pick it up by approach from point "e" while invisible, pick it up, drink "invisiblity" again and leave.
- --Vook 07:51, 23 April 2006 (EDT)
- Alternatively, telekinesis works great. Use it from near the exit room with the ladder. With a fairly long-range scroll or spell, you should be able to grab the stone without either the guard or the crystal seeing you. I found it easiest to target the stone, cast, lift it straight up to my level, and then walk backwards into the side room. This way you don't have to worry about catching the stone on any floor/ceiling obstacles.
- --MWells 17:52, 08 July 2006 (NZT)
 Hint on the guardians rest room
Don't forget to loot the possesions in the guardians restroom (the small cavern you enter after you gained the stone) before you leave. You can find a parchment document that sheds some light on the background of the Grey Fox. Don't forget to mention the topic about it when you return to him with the stone.
--The Nerevarine 14:47, 18 April 2006 (EDT)
 Easily kill the Guardian...
As an alternative, if you have a very high sneak skill, you can sneak right up behind the Guardian so that he is positioned directly between you and the Crystal. The crystal should start attacking you, but hit the Guardian instead. The Guardian, idiot that he is, won't even notice! At level 19, it only took 3 hits from the crystal to kill the guardian. Looted his body, grabbed my Savilla Stone and ran the heck away! :) — Unsigned comment by Neatchee (talk • contribs) on 11. August 2006
 Moved from main page
The following comments were moved here from the main page because they are written in first person and are more appropriate on the talk page. --Nephele 14:05, 2 December 2006 (EST)
- I managed to fix this glitch by simply restarting the game and loading a save, after talking to the Gray Fox (also I didn't talk to anybody after stealing the stone, I went straight to Gray fox)
- When is it determined what kind of high powered ring/amulet the Blind Monk Prelate is carrying, most say that it is when you enter the carvens, but i've had the same ring three times, from just after you enter the entire crypt (this is important for lvl 20+ players who want to become "immortal" see http://faqs.ign.com/articles/740/740075p1.html for more details)
 360 Glitch
I talked to the baggars after I did the quest and now I don't get a box that should pop up telling me to fence 700 gold, and Amusei doesn't come to send me any messages. Please help. Same thing happened to me, I believe nothing can be done to fix it unless they come out with another patch. I feel your pain man. — Unsigned comment by 184.108.40.206 (talk) on 18. January 2007
- it happend to me to. its wired i used my argonian account and i was able to get to the ultimate heist qquest but on my lvl 25 impearial the same thing happend — Unsigned comment by XI PHLY PHIL IX (talk • contribs) on 4. March 2007
- I believe I encountered this bug a long time ago. When arrested for a murder conducted during a Dark Brotherhood quest, my character finally found Amusei when he joined the lineup of NPCs who showed up outside Castle Leyawiin after my release. — Unsigned comment by 220.127.116.11 (talk) on 3. May 2007
- |:okay, i just want to clarify that the 'beggars' are the people who give you the notes in the imperial city on where to find the gray fox, because i talked with the first one for this mission and the guy for the next mission never ever shows up. i didnt talk to anyone after this mission and still the 700 coin thing doesnt pop up, what gives? — Unsigned comment by 18.104.22.168 (talk) on 27. February 2008
 The guardian and his random ring spawn
- I believe we could either use some investigation or some clarity on this fellow's treasure. He's also listed in the FAQs as a good place to hunt for jewelry in general.
- For starters, he drops about 5 rings (or more) to every 1 amulet - that's important to know for treasure hunters.
- Further, I have hunted this guy 400 times now (more or less, I'm sure there's at least one error in my record-keeping). I have found 16 different chameleon rings, but not a single chameleon necklace. I have found 9 night eye rings, but not a single night eye necklace. When the necklaces do drop, they seem to be disproportionately necklaces of swords, acrobatics, and "of the sea" (water breathing). I'm not getting hardly any variety at all from his necklace drops.
- If someone who can would investigate his drop tables I think they'd make some discoveries. The math is simply bearing out that there's more to this than the simple explanation we have on this page and on the FAQs page. --Alaston (26. February 2008)
- Let's see... The monk's inventory consists of: 1 White Monk Robe, 1 pair of Sack Cloth Sandals, 1 Akaviri Dai-Katana and one item from the LL2LootJewelryMagic100 leveled list. The gives you one item from another leveled list depending on your level:
Level List Name Rings Amulets + Necklaces %age Ring 1-3 Nothing 4-8 LL1LootJewelryMagic1Base100 102 10 + 13 81.6% 9-12 LL1LootJewelryMagic2Average100 102 10 + 13 81.6% 13 LL1LootJewelryMagic1Base100 102 10 + 13 81.6% 14-17 LL1LootJewelryMagic3Grand100 102 10 + 13 81.6% 18-19 LL1LootJewelryMagic2Average100 102 10 + 13 81.6% 20+ LL1LootJewelryMagicSpecial100 15 2 + 1 83.3%
- Note that level 13 really is unlucky and that levels 18 and 19 give you worse than expected loot too. I'm not going to list all the possible outcomes from that list but columns 3 and 4 simply show the total number of rings or amulets you can obtain - and that took long enough to extract! Then the final column shows the percentage chance that you will end up with a ring. In the final list there are only three non-rings - Acrobat's Amulet, Amulet of Axes and the Necklace of Swords - so you might well end up with one quite often. The reason there are so many rings in the lower level lists is that each "Fortify Attribute" ring appears five times and each "Fortify Skill" one three times.
- Now this amount of detail would be way too much for the article, but I suppose it might be worth mentioning that four times in five you'll end up with a ring. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 05:59, 26 February 2008 (EST)
- Rpeh, thank you for looking into that and extracting that information. I think there's more to it, however. There's a bug here, and I'm certain of it.
- My character is level 40, so the anomalies at levels 13, 18 and 19 don't factor in. I just hunted this guy 91 more times.
- If the treasure calc were correct, I should have gotten about 20 amulets and about 80 rings, give or take. This is in fact what happened; 72 rings and 19 amulets as a matter of fact.
- Here's where it gets interesting. Even though amulets drop at a rate of 1 in 5, guess which Item I got the most of was? I found 5 amulets of reflection, and 4 amulets of the sea. No other item during my hunt dropped 5 times except for the amulet of reflection. This hunt is consistent with my other hunts.
- This tells me that we have a problem here. There is no way that an item that drops 1/5th as often as all others should be the most commonly found item on a given monster. What I believe is happening, and this is what the numbers show, is that when the game is calculating amulets, it is either ENORMOUSLY skewed to bring up Reflection or "Of the Sea" amulets - OR - It's rolling on the table, finding the other amulet types (chameleon, feather, night eye) and then a bug is occurring that makes it not load these items, and it defaults to one of these two types of amulet.
- There's something else going on in this treasure table, and I'm positive about it. This hunt's findings were consistent with all others. It may not be easy to see or find, but it IS there. This defies the laws of mathematics and probablities, even in a computer video game.
- I'm willing to bet that I could take ten people and have them each hunt this monster 500 times just as I have, and at the end of the day of the 5000 items we had, NONE would be an amulet of feather, an amulet of night eye, an amulet of chameleon, and perhaps others. I'm willing to bet that one of our most frequently found items overall would be an amulet of reflection despite that an amulet only drops 1 in every five times the man is hunted, giving any given ring a 5 to 1 advantage for being chosen as loot.
- Something else is at work here - and I'm wondering if it's something restricted to this monster or if it's a game-wide issue with the treasure table.
- Have ANY of you EVER found an amulet of chameleon, feather or night eye in random loot? --Alaston (26. February 2008}}
- I found the problem. It is not a coding problem however, it's a game-design problem. There is in fact, no such thing as an amulet of feather, night-eye, or chameleon. These items can ONLY be made by the player. What that means to the treasure table above, as there seems to be a FAR greater variety of rings than amulets in the game's random treasure system is something that might be worth looking at. But I stand corrected, it is not a bug. It is bad game development.
- I think this is pretty darned important to mention on the FAQs page where it lists this guy as a treasure hunter's mark for amulets and rings, as most physical characters are going to be hunting him for amulets that do not exist. Likewise, it might be worth mentioning on his page itself where it also talks about him being a boon for jewelry. All three pages list this guy as a great source for jewelry in general. A small reminder to players that are reading these entries that there are a lot more types of rings than amulets might be in order so that I can perhaps be the last player to waste three days hunting someone for an item that does not exist in the treasure tables. --Alaston (26. February 2008}}
One correction to rpeh's tables: the LL2LootJewelryMagic100 leveled list has the "all levels" flag checked. That means that any level you are equally likely to receive items from the 8 previous levels (see Leveled Lists). So it's not that level 13 and level 18-19 are unlucky; the lower level lists are repeated at those levels so that they don't disappear from list. To try to revamp the table to reflect what happens:
|Level||List Name||Rings||Amulets + Necklaces||%age Ring|
|4-8||LL1LootJewelryMagic1Base100||102||10 + 13||81.6%|
|204||20 + 26||81.6%|
|306||30 + 39||81.6%|
|321||32 + 41||82.0%|
The level 20+ list will apply at all higher levels (the low-level jewelry does not drop out even at very high levels). And one final detail: the game first determines which sublist to use, then determines which item will appear from the list. Therefore at high levels there is a 25% chance of getting an item from the "special" list even though that list has fewer total items than the lower level lists.
As for the question of what particular items will show up, and the lack of certain types of amulets.... I personally don't think that's something that needs to be pointed out here. The basic upshot of the leveled lists is that you have a chance of finding any of the items of jewelry listed at Generic Magic Apparel and Magic Items. The FAQs page, for example, already provide links to those lists. And that information is equally true of absolutely any random jewelry that you obtain anywhere in the game: the items you will find are always limited to what exists in those lists. Compared to 1000+ chests in 300+ dungeons, the only thing that is different about the prelate is that he has a 100% chance of carrying a piece of jewelry. Chests only 5-20% chances of containing a piece of jewelry.
The vast majority of players are unlikely to pay such close attention to the item they receive. I'd guess most will at most just use this exploit to get a new item. Others will use this exploit to find one particular item that they've heard about, such as the Necklace of Swords or Ring of Perfection. As for the few who do choose to use it as extensively as you have, I'd recommend that those players do a bit of research first. It doesn't seem that hard to look at Oblivion:Generic Magic Apparel#Chameleon and see what rings and amulets are listed there. Furthermore, I doubt that it is in any way possible to summarize the contents of Generic Magic Apparel and Magic Items in a way that will satisfy every single reader. You may be interested in Feather, Chameleon, and Night-Eye; another reader will want to know about Fortify Attribute; another reader will want to know about Shield; etc. Some readers will want to know the exact magnitudes of the enchantments; some won't care. Some will want to know whether the enchantment can be found on armor instead of jewelry. Or even whether it exists on clothing. The only way to answer everybody's possible questions is for everybody to look over the complete lists. If someone did want to compile summaries for each effect, those summaries would belong on the individual effect pages (e.g., at Chameleon or Feather), rather than on a quest page such as this one, since the summary is equally applicable to every piece of random loot anywhere in the game. --NepheleTalk 12:02, 26 February 2008 (EST)
- Wow. I guess there's always room to learn from the
master. mistress.expert! :) –Rpeh•T•C•E• 12:09, 26 February 2008 (EST)
- "It doesn't seem that hard to look at Oblivion:Generic Magic Apparel#Chameleon and see what rings and amulets are listed there."
- Nephele, I think you're missing the point. The site frequently touts this particular monster/boss as one to get jewelry from, and as was apparent from the thread I made on the Oblivion boards themselves, a great many people overlook or are unaware that the amulets have a much more limited degree of variety to them. Yes, if they think "Oh, the amulets might be different than the rings" then yes, they might think to look at the lists. In most games however that's not the case, and it's not the "instinctive" thing to do. A wiki's job is to provide helpful information and this is certainly at least as helpful as some of the other things I see posted on this wiki. It's a common oversight (as evident by the many people who encouraged me to hunt this monster to find an amulet of night-eye on the boards) and therefore is something I would think the wiki would address if it genuinely wanted to help inform players. I'm going to add it to the articles for this particular boss now as a small note. Maybe you'll see fit to leave it. Maybe not too.
- Edited in one comment, the same comment was already present on the second page. The third page, found at Temple of the Ancestor Moths I can't edit.
- --Alaston (27. February 2007}}
- My problem with your edit is that this article is a quest page. Its purpose is to tell readers how to complete a Thieves Guild quest. It's worth mentioning that along the way you'll encounter an exploit--but the exploit is not part of the quest. You can go kill the Prelate at any time, and as many times as you want to, before, during or after the quest. You can also complete the Thieves Guild quest without even killing the Prelate. Therefore, this quest page should not be the primary source of information about this exploit; it should mention it and provide a link to a single central place where all of the details about the exploit can be provided. Yes, the wiki's job is to provide information. But it's better to collect the information in a single place, so only one place has to be updated instead of three or four different articles.
- And I don't know why you say you can't edit Temple of the Ancestor Moths. That article has no protection of any type and can be edited by anyone, even anonymous editors. --NepheleTalk 01:00, 27 February 2008 (EST)
 Can you get back into this place after the quest?
After you complete the quest can you come back in and kill the guardian some more for more loot? DragonFlame 12:38, 27 December 2007 (EST)
- Yes. --NepheleTalk 13:44, 27 December 2007 (EST)
- I just found that out and was coming to delete thats question, but thanks anyway ^^ DragonFlame 15:40, 27 December 2007 (EST)
 Clean Up
Tried to Clean article up, the map i found was quite un-needed, as just running with any sort of speed allows you to grab the stone and get out easly. Just wondering if i missed anything ^.^ — Unsigned comment by D521 (talk • contribs) on 22. February 2008
- I've decided to just move the map link here. If someone thinks that the map is useful, then that person is free to do the work necessary to make the map suitable for the site, in particular by uploading it properly to the site so it can be shown as a thumbnail image. So here's the infamous link:
- Personally, I think the suggestions associated with the map were a bit overly complicated to be useful to the vast majority of readers. I've done a bit more polishing of the section, and I've deleted the cleanup tag. --NepheleTalk 20:53, 23 February 2008 (EST)
 Dark Welkynd Stones
(moved from the article)
- [darqueman66 tried this approach but it didn't work. I stood still but the Dark Welkynd Stone kept firing. I was forced to make a run for it, which took several tries.] — Unsigned comment by Darqueman66 (talk • contribs) on 28. February 2008
(second addition moved from article)
- [darqueman66 tried this approach but it didn't work. I tried standing still but the Dark Welkynd Stone kept hitting me. I killed The Blind Moth Priest and tried the following: I tried a weak fireball spell but it either wasn't strong enough or the fireball technique doesn't work either. I also tried a 50ft telekinesis spell that I created to remove the stone which didn't work even though I was standing right under it. I finally decided that taking the Dark Welkynd Stone wasn't worth the effort and decided to settle for completing the quest. I made a run for it and grabbed Savilla's Stone]. — Unsigned comment by Darqueman66 (talk • contribs) on 28. February 2008
I'm just full of mistakes this week ;)
Although really it's a mistake that was already there; I just made it stand out more when I revamped this section. I also wondered about it at the time, but when I checked Oblivion:Traps#Dark Welkynd Stone, the notes say that "some stones will power down if the player stops moving." So I assumed that this was one of those stones...
However, I'm not seeing the where the scripts check that the player stops moving. The closest I'm seeing is that one type of stone is triggered when you're within a distance of 1400, but only fires if you're within a distance of 700. So if you stopped moving as soon as the stone activated, it presumably wouldn't fire at you... but if you waited until you were close to the target to stop moving, freezing wouldn't help you at all. The one in this quest isn't even one of those types of stone, though.
Also, come to think of it, the information contradicts other information in the article and my own experience. Specifically, the article suggests that you can kill the prelate by sneaking up behind him and standing there while the dark welkynd stone fires at you (hitting him since he's in the way). And I remember using that trick while I was doing this quest. It worked quite well, and I just stood still the whole time.
 What Beggars???
"If you talk to the beggars after returning the stone to the Gray Fox, rather than before, Amusei may never come for the next quest and you may not be able to do quests for the Thieves Guild ever again." To whom does this refer?```` — Unsigned comment by 22.214.171.124 (talk) on 7. May 2008
- I would be interested to know also--which beggars in which city--the bug section is the only time that beggars are mentioned. Is this the answer? Travb 09:49, 19 October 2008 (EDT)
 Can't complete quest, quest journal entries out of order
I finished the quest, with this journal entry: :
- The Gray Fox has rewarded me for my efforts. He was fairly mysterious about why he needed the stone. He asked me to be available for when he next calls for me.
But the quest journal entries is out of order, this is the last entry:
- The Monks of the Ancestor Moths read the Elder Scrolls. Apparenlty this makes them blind. When they retire, they are sent to live in an undergound temple. They are all masters of fighting in the dark.
Does this mean I have a bug?
 Quest Arrow
I just did this quest, and once I entered the catacombs, the quest arrow pointed back outside. When I went back outside, there was no quest arrow. The arrow only correctly pointed to the stone once I entered the final room. Everything updated fine and the quest completed, but the entire time that I was inside the catacombs (but not in the final room), the quest arrow was not functioning properly. Is this a bug? -Daft 05:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
- I can't seem to remember anything buggy with the quest arrow (or I didn't notice) while I did this quest, but that was long ago, so I might be mistaken. Wolok gro-Barok 09:59, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 Brother Holger
- Well, instead of having him point you to the catacombs, go there by yourself. There might not be a quest marker though. --SerCenKing Talk 15:20, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 Helvius Cecia's house
So I got the quest from Methredhel (had to actually pay her a visit in her house to get it, she didn't come to me) and travelled to Bruma. Helvius Cecia told me that the Gray Fox was inside and not to keep him waiting, but once I entered the house, the Fox wasn't there. I've searched the house several times, but the Gray Fox simply isn't there. I have no chance of progressing the quest further. Is this a new bug? (P.S.: I'm playing this on the 360.) Sirslaughter 23:39, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
 Hevius Cecicas house
that idiot to fox wasent there help please searched like 16 times and tryed unoffical patch and nonthing works!! please help im playing on pc — Unsigned comment by 126.96.36.199 (talk) on 2 March 2010
- Has Methredhel come up to you and told you to go to Helvius' house? Have you fenced 600 gold? If the answer is no this is probably why. Otherwise, just type setstage TG08Blind 1 in the console and then enter the catacombs. The quest should then update without having to talk to the Gray Fox. --SerCenKing Talk 19:18, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
Hey im having the same problem. i was told to go see the Gray Fox in Bruma @ Hevius's House. the quest marker is IN the house. i go downstairs to where it is green and no gray fox, just an empty effin room! :( i even tried going to the temple and talking to the monks to see if thatd activate the next part of the quest. nothing...even went all thru the catacombs and everything, nothing. guardian has random magicalal loot, but not the quest item!!! :'( also FYI ive fenced well over $13,000 in case u wanna comment back saying thats what id need to do...cuz its not! but GF is invisible n i cant talk to him no matter where i look in that house in bruma. i even tried the small UPSTAIRS. nothing. can someone please help ? lmao! also if u wanna send an email about this or whatever, my addy is firstname.lastname@example.org if anyone wants to let me know what i either missed or still have to do to continue this quest thatd be great n thx. Bahamut
VERY WEIRD!! I experienced the same thing. I repeatedly loaded a save game and the GF finally did appear. He said something to the effect of us needing to talk. He then walked out of the house. While I followed him I reverse pick pocketed a mages hood into his inventory. He left Bruma, donning the mages hood as he exited the gates. (I then pick pocketed the Gray Cowl). He walked all the way to Cheydinhal and entered Ganredhel's house where there was another Gray Fox, wearing the Gray Cowl and dressed differently. Sniffles 00:00, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
 So can you kill someone or not?
He says to not shed innocent blood, but you still can kill the guardians. So does that mean you can kill them or not. Its kind of confusing on my part. Just need a clearance on that subject. Thanks. TheImperialBloodBrother 00:24, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
- Yes you can kill the guardians, just not Brother Hjar,Brother Holger or Brother Hridi. Just as it says under the Blood Price section of the article. - 188.8.131.52 04:25, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
"Methredhel will appear in your room and possibly scare you." Um, what? Is that a joke? 184.108.40.206 13:31, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
- Even if it was, it wasn't exactly funny. I've removed it. --SerCenKing Talk 13:53, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
I have the first bug mentioned in this page "This quest can be accidentally triggered by visiting the Temple of the Ancestor Moths, see the bugs section for details. If so, Methredhel will give you a message starting this quest the next time you talk to her -- even if you have not yet joined the Thieves Guild."(I'm not of the thives guild but I have the mission to join) and even though I talk to him he doesn't give me the mission. Does anyone knows what do I have to do for him to give me the mission?--220.127.116.11 15:30, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 Monk to Rat
I feel that this glitch is very unlikely
- Occasionally, you can see a monk walking down a hallway who will then randomly dissapear for a split second and reappear as a rat.
 Moved note.
- Details of the relationship between the monks, blind priests and Ancestor Moths can be found in the book Pension of the Ancestor Moth, found in the Chapel and the Monk's Quarters.
If we should note this , we should put it on the Moths page , shouldn't they ? JackTurbo95 18:38, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 No fast travel
I just did this quest and everything went normally accept for one thing. it tells me there are enemies nearby every whenever i try to fast travel even when no one is around i have no bounty on my head so the guards cant be the problem. i dont understand what is going on please help!
 Getting The Stone From The Testing Hall
I received the stone from the testing hall and im trying to complete the quest but it wont let me, help please!
 Methendrels journey....
ok. well i didnt realise it could mess up her finding me by doing other quests so i did a few while waiting for her. the quest marker is on orris my current fence so i thought if i fenced more she would come, now ive fence like 4000 and its still on him, so i go to the waterfront and wait (after i read the notes and bugs for the quest) well ive waited for a solid in-game month and a half and that didnt work, shes not home at any hour of the day, and ive slept in my imperial city home for an added 2 weeks straight. im seriously upset about this. where could she possibly be? anyone know? any tips? please??
- Ok instead of going to jail i just paid the fine and it worked on the very first try. I've read on various blogs that going to jail made her appear but not (more specifically) paying the fine(I went to jail and served time about 15 times on a different save file trying to get her to appear and nothing happened). PS3 Version.