Oblivion talk:Whodunit?

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Quite possibly one of the most fun quests in the game :). -Fenir

• Having done all the fighters, mages and thieves guild quests, this is by far the most entertaining (and replayable) quest I've had yet. Don't tell Matilde you're an assassin at the start, it ruins the fun of hearing her banal empty platitudes before you sheathe your weapon (thus raising your personality) and hearing what she really thinks of the others.

- The only problem I had with this quest was that after talking to all the guests, I found them rather likeable and felt bad killing them.  :)

Contents 1 Deleted Text 2 No combustion 3 Fancy wiki stuff! 4 Never detected except when using magic 5 glitch? 6 Game bug? 7 Summitmist Manor 8 Easy Kill? 9 If only the rest of the game was as well-scripted as this... 10 Blind, deaf and dumb? 11 Hostile Magic 12 Does Frenzy work?

[edit] Deleted Text

I have moved the following notes from the main page because they were written in first-person. They need to be rewritten according to the Style Guide before being moved back to the main page. --Nephele 23:28, 21 November 2006 (EST)

• Once you kill a guest, all the surviving guests will immediately know he's dead, even if they don't know you killed him. It's as if you announce you've found the body when you meet them, even though you have no dialog option for that. Thus, the surviving guests begin acting out their innate suspicions noted above. This means that once you get the ball rolling, they'll all be dead in a couple of minutes. I killed Neville while we were alone on the 3rd floor and everybody else was eating dinner on the 2nd. As soon as I came back downstairs, the remaining guests jumped up in a panic, screaming and shouting at each other. At this point, Dovesi killed Nels, then went chameleon and ran to bed on the 3rd floor. I took that opportunity to kill her. When I tried to talk to Primo afterwards, he launched into a rant (without me being able to say anything) about how Matilde had to be the killer, then turned and killed her. Then he let down his guard thinking it was all over, so I killed him.
• For some reason, Neville attacked attacked me as soon as he'd finished his scripted chat to Nels. At first i though it was some glitch (i did have my weapon out), so i reloded the autosave, but he attacked me again. I didnt pull a weapon out, but just blocked him until he died from reflect damage. The only other glitch that has occured on my save is that i had the gray cowl on during the sanguine quest, so my infamy is around 120. -Darkar
• A possible glitch, for me anyway, was after i talked to the doorman Fafnir, and he gave me the key, was that the door would not activate and let me in. I think the only possible fix is to use the console (setstage dark08whodunit 30) or to reload to a previous save, although this didnt work for me.

[edit] No combustion

In this page, it says that Nels (the drunk nord guy) died on a combustion shock, thats not true. He is actually murthered by the dark elf Dovesi, I saw her on the first floor getting invisible or at least using the magic chameleon (but a very powerful) and then going upsters and... SUPRISE, Nels just fell away and reast in drunk peace. Later, I played again, so I could see her better, and in that same floor she did the spell upon her, and she killed Nels, but also she killed Primo. So you have your hands clean and your objective moving.

A Problem - She was next to nels at the time and did not attack. Other guests accounted for - out of line of fire (detect life on constantly - showed no invisiblity). Also strange launching of Nels vertically is extremely odd as well as the behavoir of the guests (actions disrupted - they all simultaneously went to bed early and changed beds often) after it. In the round I played, no guest tried to kill another. I cannot recreate the event - never happened again the same. My conclusion: a bug or glitch. User:Redgeneral

In reply to this comment, Nels' vertical launching was probably due to the fact that he has 1 HP, and so any damage causes bodies to ascend rapidly. --Merco 16:34, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Fancy wiki stuff!

How do you do the fancy, big, bold description on a page? I can't figure out the markup code! Verin Sedai 22:58, 21 January 2007 (EST)

It's done by the quest header template. The text of Oblivion:Whodunit?/Description is automatically included on Oblivion:Whodunit? when you add the "{{Quest Header ... }}" code on the page. You might want to take a look at UESPWiki:Style Guide/Quest Layout for more information about the overall quest format, also Template:Quest Header for what the various options are within the quest header. Feel free to ask if you have any more questions! --Nephele 23:17, 21 January 2007 (EST)

I personally recommend that you talk to one of the mentors here and they should be able to help teach you the "Fancy wiki stuff". --Darth NANAME 20:39, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for trying to help answer Verin Sedai's question. But your answer might have been a bit more useful if the original question hadn't been asked 15 months ago. And your feedback might also have been more useful if the question hadn't already been answered. Sorry my answer was obviously so inadequate that you thought Verin needed more help. Maybe I need to go ask a mentor to teach me some of the "fancy wiki stuff" ;) --Nephele^Talk 21:09, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

Checking timestamps is for posers. :D--Darth NANAME 21:20, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Never detected except when using magic

Has anyone actually been "identified" as the assassin and lost the bonus, without using hostile magic? All 5 targets have only one hit point and die in a single hit regardless of how you attack. Even killing someone with a torch out, 100 points of Light, and not sneaking, in front of all four of the other guests won't set off any alarms. Even if everyone's disposition to you is 0 and they attack you as a result of your kill, you still don't get "identified" and lose the bonus. The only way I've managed to lose the bonus is to use hostile magic instead of a melee/bow attack.

As far as I can tell the whole Assassination Methods and Notes sections can be replaced with simply, "Don't use magic."--Deathbane27 23:16, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

I definitely had the message about being detected pop up. But come to think of it, I'm pretty sure it was after casting a soul trap spell each time, because that's the only odd thing I would have been experimenting with (trying to fill those black soul gems!) So that is consistent with what you're saying. --Nephele^Talk 23:42, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

I wonder if the contrary is true? As in, if you get somebody completely alone, and cast a spell strong enough to kill them in one hit, do you automatically get detected even though there's no witnesses? That would kind of suck for heavy magic-using characters doing this quest... --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 00:53, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

Yes, you do get identified, even if it's a 0-second duration damage spell and the target is the last guest remaining. As far as I've been able to determine, the only way a hostile spell won't make you lose the bonus is if the target is already attacking you (last one left, low disposition, and you talk to them, for example). --Deathbane27 01:03, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

I've given the article an overhaul based on this. Added a section about the poor AI and removed all the info that was redundant as a result, but left in the entries that are deviously evil or just plain amusing. Did it all in one edit in case it needs to be reverted (if it turns out detection actually works in a specific patch version or something).

It IS a very fun quest to role-play (repeatedly), it's just a shame it requires no finesse. --Deathbane27 01:34, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

Not if you're 100% chameleon. Staff of corruption also doesn't seem to work when player has 100% chameleon (dup disappears right away)

It is a great shame this quest is so easy, when there's so much fun to be had. Robed Dawnbringer 04:41, 5 January 2008 (EST)

[edit] glitch?

i had 2 more of the people to kill when i had to stop playing so i decided to quickly kill the other 2 for fun. i stood behind one of the two when they were both speaking in sneak mode. then i attacked and one of them died and the other didnt even notice! i just killed the other and got the bonus still

The section "Never detected except when using magic" above pretty much answers your query. --Rpeh^Talk 05:17, 1 July 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Game bug?

Has anyone else had the problem of simply not being able to enter the house? I've tried it several times (and I mean, including quitting the game and reloading repeatedly), plus varying things (i.e. removing all clothing etc which the game indicates is a give-away to your identity, such as armour and weapons), I tried finding an alternative entrance round the back, and right now I'm contemplating trying to find what the map is called, then using the console to load it, thus forcing my way in (haven't actually tried doing this yet though). But whatever I do, I can't open the door for love nor money.

I had a similar problem before, where I couldn't enter the Dark Brotherhood's sanctuary - I went up to the door, pressed use, and though it made the sound of recognising that you're using something, it wouldn't open the door. A quit/reload fixed that, but in this case, it's not helping at all, neither is the game making the customary "use" sound when I press the key. That happened every time I tried to use the door from the "abandoned house" side, and still does to this day (though now I can avoid it via the well secret entrance).

I should point out that I have some plugins installed. However, only one affects Skingrad, that one is inside a house and not outside where it might affect this door anyway, and I've tried disabling it and nothing happened. Also, I had the problem entering the Dark Brotherhood sanctuary before I ever installed any files for Oblivion, which makes me think even more that it's a game bug.

If anyone could tell me how to fix this, or even just whether you've ever heard of this problem, it would help a lot. ^{—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.159.86.10 (talk • contribs).}

Is the doorman (Fafnir) standing outside the door, and the problem is that after talking to him you can't open the door? Or is the problem that Fafnir is not appearing for some reason?

If Fafnir is there, is it possible that this is just one symptom of the animation bug that can appear after a large number of hours of gameplay with a single character? For example, do you have 200+ hours of playtime with this one character? --Nephele^Talk 21:15, 3 July 2007 (EDT)

Fafnir has spoken to me and given me the key. And this is a relatively new character. I played once, found I was struggling on the missions (I tend to rush straight in and ignore building my character first, so I had a level 3-4 character rushing half-way through the main storyline), but restarted and am working this guy through the game with a more balanced build, starting with the guilds, DB first of all. I think I have about 8 hours gametime with him, nowhere near 200 hours anyway. ^{—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.159.86.10 (talk • contribs).}

I finally remembered to look into this some more and unfortunately couldn't really figure out what would cause this. The key is really just decorative. But the same script that gives you the key also unlocks the front door (using the command SummitmistExDoor1.Unlock). So when you get the key, the door should be unlocked automatically.

I'm assuming that the last quest update that you got was:

I have spoken with Fafnir, the doorman, who appears to be a fellow member of the Dark Brotherhood. He has provided me with the key to Summitmist Manor, which I am to use only after all the guests lie dead. I should now proceed inside and meet the other guests.

If, however, you've already received the following quest update, then that would be one explanation for the problem. The next update is:

I have arrived at Summitmist Manor. I must now kill the unlucky guests -- Matilde, Dovesi, Primo, Neville and Nels. If I can eliminate each guest secretly, without any witnesses, I will receive my reward and a very valuable reward. If I am discovered, the contract will be complete, but any bonus will be forfeit.

At that point, another script locks the door again. But you shouldn't receive that quest update until you get inside the house.

In any case, given that you're on the PC, I'd suggest trying in the console to use the command SummitmistExDoor1.Unlock, and seeing whether that fixes the problem. --Nephele^Talk 00:01, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

I have exactly the same problem, there is simply no way for me to do the quest as the door will not open. It makes no noise, it just doesn't open. The code you gave doesn't work either, is there any other way? I would enjoy doing the quest...

I've had the same problem and used coc SkingradSummitmistManorBasement to place myself in the basement of Summitmist Manor, then left the basement. Everything carried on as normal. For some reason, placing myself straight on the ground floor didn't work. --Rpeh^Talk 07:56, 30 August 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Summitmist Manor

Any word on using the newly vacant Summitmist Manor as a house? If the crates and chests are safe, this would be one of the best quest rewards in the game. It is located directly across the street from Rosethorn Hall, and has equal size and storage. -Motoma

No, unfortunenately most containers are not safe in Summistmist Manor. The only containers that don't respawn their inventory (i.e. they are safe) are the two locked chects upstairs, and the chest Neville gets his equipment from. Also a few containers in the basement don't respawn as well, but it is not easy to identify them among the other containers. --Timenn 12:14, 8 July 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Easy Kill?

Instead of raising their disposition to the max, I decided to lower it. However, when I got to zero and exited the menu, the selected guest would start to attack me. I could kill him/her without being detected. I guess that would be an easy way to complete the mission. Just lower their disposition and watch as the remaining guests kill him/her. --Vesna 8:27, 3 September 2007

[edit] If only the rest of the game was as well-scripted as this...

Ive replayed this quest many times trying to get every bit of dialog from the characters. Its taking a bit of time, as the number of dead and the dispositions of the characters towards one another affects what they say. I havent even tried this mission with a low disposition. Definitely one of the more entertaining missions. I only wish Bethesda would have paid more voice actors and made the rest of the game dialog as unique and entertaining as this quest.

[edit] Blind, deaf and dumb?

Why does the section "Blind, Deaf and Dumb (Yet very talkative) state that any weapon hit will not be detected? If that were true there wouldn't be much meaning to this quest. Plus, I have attacked someone while another person was watching and it forfeit my bonus, so I'm just wondering if this should be changed to reflect the facts more accurately.

[edit] Hostile Magic

The latest edit to the article changed "Use of any hostile magic will void the bonus, even if you and your target are alone on the map (i.e., in the basement) or the target is the last one remaining. The only time it is safe to use hostile magic is if someone is already attacking you." to "Use of any hostile magic will void the bonus has been disproved, using an invisibility spell, then casting a hostile magic, while the target is alone, will not result in losing the bonus." while not providing any information as to how it had been disproved and under what circumstances. I'm going to change it back and VN the paragraph in question instead. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 14:08, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

I remember an instance where I used magic. Using the basic flare spell from the start of the game, I killed Dovesi Dran. I still got the bonus. I attacked from behind, I think it depends on what type of spell you use, so if you use damage per second, even for one second, an alarm will be raised, unlike using damage on hit spells.-Puddle 07:02, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

Can you try to recreate that please? I just spent an hour - literally - using touch spells and target spells; shop-bought spells and created spells; 100% chameleon or invisibility and 100% visibility; alone with the target and in front of everybody else. I could find no situation in which I got away with casting a spell. Conversely, walking up to an NPC in conversation with another and chopping them in half with a claymore never caused me to be detected. Believe me, after an hour of testing this, there was quite a lot of satisfaction in hacking everybody to bits! In short, if there's no definite contradiction with details inside a week, I'm taking the VN back off the note. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:51, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

My guess is it may have to do with what version of the game you are running. You may want to try the old version by re-installing the game and then the newest update to see if it will change the outcome Dr. Kilereren 14:11, 7 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Does Frenzy work?

The article suggests using Frenzy to get the guests to kill each other. But the guests are members of the "Doomed House Guests" faction, which gives them a Disposition boost of 100 torwards each other. Because of this, I really can't see how they would ever attack each other. I did cast a Frenzy spell once, and I only ever managed to get the guests to attack me. Nifhelton 13:06, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

Their dispositions may change over the course of the quest, which causes them to attack eachother based on who they suspect. If this is the case, check the individual's aggression to see how strong the Frenzy spell would need to be for them to attack anyone they don't like. Dr. Kilereren 14:15, 7 July 2008 (EDT)