Skyrim talk:Blood on the Ice/Archive 3

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I have more than 245 in-game days and Blood on the Ice won't start

I've done (listed in order to completion) the Winterhold quest, almost finished Thieves' guild quests (haven't returned the skeleton key), finished Dark Brotherhood quests, finished Companions quest, finished main quests, and finished the Civil war quest siding with the Imperials.

I have tried many methods suggested by others but still cannot get the Blood on Ice quest to start:

  • I did not kill Nilsine in my Dark Brotherhood quest.
  • I stole the Hjerim key from Tova and got into Hjerim but the quest did not start, even after I've taken the butcher note #1 and the other pamphlets and the mystery amulet inside the house.
  • I was told by the Jarl (Bruulaf?) that I can buy the house and become thane, but Jorleif said it can't be bought yet because something "unpleasant" happened.
  • Susana the Wicked is still alive.
  • Some say visit Wuunferth in the dungeon might trigger the quest, but for me Wuunferth is still the mage and is walking around in the Palace.
  • I tried talking to guards in the graveyard around 2am but none talks about any murder.

I'm at 252 in-game days now, I suspect this is the only reason it won't start?

I've just loaded a save that's at 220 days and not finished the Companions, main, and Civil War quests. Stole Hjerim key and went into the house, but quest did not start even after I picked up the notes and pamphlets and the amulet. — Unsigned comment by 24.4.107.4 (talk) at 23:22 on 30 December 2011

You probably already searched all over this page, but I was thinking that this topic could be helpful? Otherwise, you could be really helpful by loading a very old save and do some checking - especially because the 245-day limit seems odd, and it seems even more odd that the quest breaks if you so much as touches the... Imperials? Stormcloaks? That is one of the things I mentioned in my investigation post just above, and it seems like it is affecting you big time. Good luck! --Krusty 00:31, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
I've read the link you gave me, so basically it means that I'll need to start a new character from scratch, because the quest won't start as long as I'm using the saves from this character? It sucks because I really want to get the house and I've spend the whole day playing the same things over and over again. I might create a new character just for the sake of finding out later.
After reading your comment I went and loaded a save that only had 63 in-game days and with only the Winterhold quests completed. Each of all other quests have less than 5 completed (with zero for the Civil War quests). The Blood on the Ice quest still doesn't start. Here's what I did:
  • Traveled from Riften to Windhelm. Talked to the Shatter-Shields, they were sad because of the lost of their daughter. Torbjorn asked me to get him an amulet of Arkay for his wife.
  • Traveled to somewhere close to Markarth because it's not discovered yet. Went in and did a quest in Hall of the Dead, after that Brother Verlurf(sic?) gave me the amulet.
  • Traveled back to Windhelm. Gave amulet to Torbjorn, now they all just mourn.
  • To complete the 'in and out of Windhelm for 4 times' requirement, I traveled to Morthal, Winterhold, Whiterun, Markarth, each time returned to Windhelm first. I did not fast travel inside Windhelm, always went in and out of the main door. I also talked to people whenever I'm in Windhelm, hoping to have new conversation pop up.
Very frustrating! By the way I'm playing the PS3 version. Also, in all the running around with both my 220- and 63-days save character, I didn't run into Viola and I cannot find her in her house neither. — Unsigned comment by 24.4.107.4 (talk) at 10:11 on 31 December 2011
Sounds like you have a serious problem, as you definitely should meet the requirements for the quest to trigger. Only thing to remember now is to enter through the Windhelm gate at night (2am or something) and then go straight to the graveyard. The war quests tend to be really annoying, as it is really hard to determine how much they actually destroy. This is one of the things I need to test when we reach 2012 in a few minutes - also, if you can't find Viola, I'm not even sure you should bother testing any more. Her being gone/dead/whatever could also cancel the entire quest as far as we know. One question though - did you complete Viola's other quest (the stolen thing you have to put in her dresser)? A few people suggested that as one of the reasons for her disappearance, but I haven't had time to check it out yet. So much to check... --Krusty 10:55, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
On my original 252-days save I definitely saw Viola after I did the quest (planting the stolen ring in her dresser) because I remember talking to her and see if there'll be new conversations after I sneaked the ring in. But I did it pretty early on so I don't know what made her disappear. — Unsigned comment by 24.4.107.4 (talk) at 10:32 on 1 January 2012
I did a lot of research about the 245 day limit. I'm pretty certain it used to fail/break the quest/graveyard trigger and was fixed in 1.1.3. Not sure exactly what it changed to break it. One of the things that were changed by entering windhelm is the graveyard body (d2c9e). Once it broke that way, you couldn't enable the body anymore (body wouldn't show like it does with a fresh save game). So I assume it got deleted (similiar to what you can do with markfordelete). I got the body "undeleted" by manipulating the save game. Afterwards, it showed some text when typing "startquest ms11" (which it didn't before), but the quest wouldn't start anyway. So there are probably more objects/npcs that got changed preventing the graveyard scene (and the internal quest ms11) from triggering. But as I said, since 1.1.3 this doesn't seem to happen anymore (at least by having more than 245 gamedays). However, old save games that were corrupted that way, are still affected. Taurose 18:32, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

() I'm at Level 53, and the quest won't start. I have completed the Main Quest, College of Winterhold, Companions, and Civil War quests (siding with the Imperials), am almost done with the Thieve's Guild, and about halfway through Dark Brotherhood (I did not kill Nilsine Shatter-Shield). I've traveled in and out of Windhelm many times, both fast travel and through the gates, checking the graveyard every time. I have the option to buy Hjerim, but am told there's a problem with it and can't buy it. I tried pickpocketing the key and investigating Hjerim, but the quest still won't start. I've talked to everyone in town, and not killed anyone in Windhelm but Ulfric and Galmar. Viola, Tova, Calixto, Wuunferth, Nilsine and Susanna are all alive. At this point, the Windhelm guards are all gone, so I wouldn't be able to complete the quest even if it started.

I loaded an old save game to see if I could get it to start. In the save game, I was level 19 and hadn't completed any of the questlines above yet. I fast traveled from four different cities to Windhelm, exiting through the gates each time. After the last fast travel (from Whiterun), I entered the graveyard, and the quest started. --Achariel 23:03, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I was able to get this quest to start by going to Windhelm and entering (in the console) startquest ms11 I was also able to determine using the ck, that you have to have entered Windhelm 4 times for this quest to trigger normally. Also, the quest will not trigger normally unless it is after 1900 (7PM) or before 0700. -- Gard — Unsigned comment by 50.42.55.185 (talk) at 07:17 on 26 February 2012

Quest will not trigger on 360

The quest just will not trigger. I have:

  • Entered Windhelm dozens of times, often at night
  • Not gone on any killing sprees or the like
  • Just passed 250 days
  • Completed the Civil War questline for the Stormcloaks
  • Killed Nilsine Shatter-Shield as per the Dark Brotherhood quest Mourning Never Comes
  • Have completed the Companions quest Take Up Arms, which was suggested here as being a possible problem

No murder scene has ever triggered. Tova Shatter-Shield's body is nowhere to be found. Viola, Calixto, Wuunferth, and whoever else is involved in the quest is still alive and well. And I am completely stuck. Jak Atackka 09:18, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Ditto. On the 360, and can't get it to start. I can't say for sure something's wrong yet, but I've been purposefully trying to activate the quest off and on since December 18th. Minor Edits 10:36, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
Okay, just triggered it (again) - not on 360, but on PS3, but I doubt there's a difference. With a count of 56 in-game days, here's exactly what I did:
  • Talked to the Jarl after Rescue from Fort Neugrad and he offered me a house. Talked to Jorleif who said the thing about unpleasant stuff and all that. Checked cemetery, which was empty.
  • Fast traveled to Whiterun, deselected ALL objectives and quests (no unneeded map markers) and traveled back to Windhelm Stables. Entered the city at 4am.
  • Body and witnesses present in the graveyard. Quest triggered without a problem.
Be back later with a trigger recipe without doing the annoying war quests. --Krusty 11:28, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
By the way, please make sure that the four NPCs needed to to even start the quest are all alive when you attempt to start this: Calixto, Susanna, Silda and Helgird. --Krusty 11:42, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
They're all alive and well. And this is ridiculous that I can't start it, because I've already put 300 hours into my character, I just passed day 260, and I'm not starting all over just so I can get Hjerim. I should add to my list, "Everybody that is at one point or another involved in the quest (besides Tova) is still alive." The quest refuses to trigger, period. I've tried everything. Jak Atackka 23:36, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

() I too can not seem to start the quest; no graveyard scene. I've completed the main quest line, the Stormcloak questline (for the stormcloaks), have not joined the companions and have not joined the Dark Brotherhood (although I have completed Innocence Lost?). I've entered and exited Windhelm many times, always at night, sometimes I fast travel to the stables and run up the bridge and sometimes I go directly to windhelm. The woman who is supposed to be murdered during this quest (I forget her name, the one with the huge rack - something the Wicked?) who works at the inn is still alive. So is everyone else crucial to the quest. Not having access to this house is ruining my game experience, how can I relish in my success as one of the best Stormcloak Officers if I can't even live in the same city as the man I fight for? Brunwulf the Beast-Like 15:01, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Mabye the quest trigger, if you try to buy Hjerim and find the blood there on the floor. This started my quest immediately without ever see the crime scene. Until I buyed the house, i didn't even know there was a victim and a crime scene in windhelm @_@ Paramania 18:18, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Tova Missing

For those who have done the dark brotherhood questline with effect of tova's suicide. The body can be found in the hall of dead. Just look for the one coffin that is now placed in the hall of dead. you can get the key from that coffin. — Unsigned comment by 77.248.195.61 (talk) at 21:46 on 5 January 2012

You're absolutely correct. I'll add that info right away - thanks for pointing that out, it has been a supposed "bug" for the longest time! --Krusty 22:26, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
Um, this is not correct, since i went to The Hall of Dead, searched the coffin (i also killed nilsine for the Dark Brotherhood) and there is no key in it
EDIT: i got the key from tova's body,in house of Clan Shatter-Shield Andibadia 23:51, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Ran into this issue as well. Quest marker insisted that Tova was in the Shatter-Shield house, and was pointing to an empty spot where she would have been standing. Her lifeless body--key included--could be found in the room to the left at the top of the stairs. Reverendgeneral 17:43, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Nilsine and Tova are long since dead, and the quest marker is pointing at the market. Neither body is still in the house, and as far as I can tell Tova's is not in the Hall of the Dead either: Nurelion's is (White Phial key), someone with a key to the stables is (no idea who or why, maybe a dragon got them), and that's it for coffins with keys. Aliana 20:56, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
I'll have to wait until they release the 1.4 for PS3 - until then, I'm not going to touch this quest for another second. Oh, and place this on top of that quest order page of yours! ;) --Krusty 21:23, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
Unfortunately, this is on 1.4 - but I killed Nilsine on 1.3, and it was a very long time ago, so there's a tiny amount of hope that it broke back then but would work now in a fresh game. I did give some thought to putting this as a "To Do ASAP", just so you don't have to backtrack so much if you run into one of the 50 ways it can break, but I thought I'd wait and see how much of it 1.4 fixed first. Incidentally, Calixto froze up in the market, because the only person there at all was Niranye: who's essential, and obviously not who he was expecting to find. It did make him a very nice target though. :P So that's one bug fixed, at least: he loses his essential status at the "right" time now, even if he doesn't manage to kill again. Aliana 03:25, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Another Affected Player (360)

Just wanted to add to this annoying glitch/bug/thing

Myself, my fiance, my best friend and her boyfriend have all been playing this. My fiance and my friends boyfriend have both got this quest to start (both completed the college of winterhold first... while we have not...i don't know if that has any significance??) they are also mastering mage stuff while me and my friend are more for one handed melee? just throwing that in as i'm desperate for answers and since stupid minor things seem to glitch it maybe stupid minor things contribute to it? my fiance also completed this quest before finishing the civil war quest (stormcloaks side), he hadn't started the companions or the dark brother hood or visited Markarth (again don't know if any of that relevant just throwing it in for ideas)

for myself, i've made note of everything and everyone that has to be done/present for this quest to initiate:

1. i've only played 237 game days. 2. calixto, sussana, tova, stable people, viola etc are all still alive. I haven't killed anyone i shouldn't have. 3. i have left and re-entered windhelm more than 4 times, through fast travel, on foot, i've even tried fast traveling to the stables four times and entering that way, always at night and i've always checked the graveyard so there's no way i could have "missed" the scene. 4. i haven't stole or read anything that shouldn't be 5. i tried using the key from Tova,reading the journals and panphlets, nothing happened.

however, i've nearly completed the stormcloaks missions , i've joined and started the dark brother hood (just on the kill nilsine quest, won't be doing that though!) and i've completed the companions, so i don't know if any of that should be affecting me?

My brother just got the game for christmas, i don't think he's been to windhelm yet so i'm going to pester him to see if i can get the quest to start, once i've done that i'll leave a note on everything he'd done/hadn't done before and if the quest actually started :/

on another note, my fiance randomly came across the quest on a random visit to windhelm, he had no idea about glitches or having to enter and leave 4 times so he never took note of that stuff. While i was complaining to my friend about this glitch she told me her boyfriend was desperate for the house and looked up how to get it, saw the 4 visits thing and after countless re-visits (apparently it took a stupid amount of visits) the quest finally activated :S i've given up counting the amount of times i've tried... so i'm beginning to give up hope :( i really want the house as it looks amazing with the armoury , animal head plaques and weapon displays but i really don't want to cheat to get it :/

any thoughts? thanks Khajit girl Vitani 31.53.233.38 23:22, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

There's nothing you can do about it. Either the procedure works or it doesn't, and it's obvious that it often doesn't. I myself have followed the exact listed procedure that others have had success with on three different characters on three different profiles and BOTI still never started for any of them. Clearly some other bug is still a factor, and it won't straighten out unless Bethesda ever patches it (and probably breaks something else in the process). Just shrug it off and move on, don't hold your breath. — Unsigned comment by 206.76.160.254 (talk) at 22:41 on 8 January 2012
- yeah I have another problem the guard disapeared after I started the quest. basically I got the quest, ignored it for a while killed nilsine and finished the imperial side and now th guard is gone. Is there any way to continue the quest! Also to the guy above I had the same problem with my first character there is nothing you can do unless on pc I am on 360 so I had to start a new character and just get the quest before I did anything else, only now the bloody guard dissapeared! Anyway sorry but you're screwed unless you are playing on pc — Unsigned comment by 86.186.243.223 (talk) at 12:22 on 22 February 2012
The guard that you are supposed to return to is a Windhelm guard, and all Windhlem guards are replaced by Imperial soldiers after completing the Battle for Windhelm, so this guard doesn't exist anymore. Returning to a save before the Battle for Windhelm would work. If you don't have a save from before that, it might be possible to go on by entering Hjerim to trigger another stage of the quest, but this quest is really glitchy and that still might not work. To enter Hjerim, you can either pick the lock, or get the key from Tova Shatter-Shield. I would recommend trying the previous save game if you have one, and if not try entering Hjerim to move on to a later quest objective. If those things don't work for you, read the previous posts in this discussion page (and the archive, linked on the top right of page) because a lot of people have had issues with this quest, and various workarounds have been suggested which work for some players depending on what stage of the quest they're in. Good luck! Alphabetface 03:52, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
Until you progress far enough in the quest, the door to Hjerim is locked and requires a key. Sucks for me because Tova Shattershield has completely disappeared from the game. • JATalk 04:34, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
I didn't realize that part, my bad. That does suck. =\ Alphabetface 05:02, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
Hmm, in this conversation, RH stated that the front door to Hjerim will change from a 'key required' lock to a normal 'master' lock when the quest is initiated, whether you own the house or not "the moment the quest starts by any means (Quest Stage 0)" so if he's right and your door still says "key-required" there's still gotta be something else going on. Alphabetface 18:14, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Wuunferth's sleeping habits

oops - second door on the right, not left, but anyway: I don't know if it's only while the quest is active (or at a specific stage), but that's where you'll find him at night: fast asleep ?on what's usually Jorleif's bed? Aliana 23:13, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Hey Ali. After a bit of testing, it seems like his broken sleep package (12x4) is the same whether the quest runs or not. Wuunferth is obviously bugged but not in a ‘quest-related’ way. His problem is that he will not sleep as long as Jorleif and his 22x7 sleep package is around, because the only bedroll will be occupied. Bug should be added to Wuunferth’s page though. --Krusty 08:32, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Yeah - I thought about this a bit more, and I expect it'll turn out to be something like Jorleif's sleep package is disabled during the quest, which would free the bed up for Wuunferth. Hopefully the CK will be out soon and we can just look this sort of thing up. Aliana 09:12, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Jep, from stage 41 onwards, Jorleif stops sleeping and Wuunferth uses his bed. Aliana 12:45, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

unlisted glitch

so I accused the mage, left the city for the 3 days and came back in to find the second body had dropped and a guard standing next to her. BUT, there is no quest update and all he says to me is, wait I know you. There's nothing about it mentioned here or anywhere that I can find. I'm just not sure how to solve this one98.71.107.189 21:23, 17 January 2012 (UTC)miah

Solved it myself. If you have an outstanding bounty in the city it will not let you talk to the guard and advance the quest. So I just got myself caught picking a pocket, paid off all my fines and it then let me talk to him98.71.107.189 21:30, 17 January 2012 (UTC)miah
Should be noted that in order to solve *this* issue, paying off the bounty at the thieves guild discount didn't work. I had to pay off the full amount (and give up whatever stolen items I had on me)--Bensherman01 20:36, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Triggering MS11

This might answer some questions: I located an old save that was ready to trigger this quest. It is lvl12 on the roof of the college. getstage ms11 returns 0. Upon fast travelling to Windhelm getstage ms11 returns 1, and the murder scene is present. I reloaded and discovered that getstage would immediately return 1 if I fast travelled to Windhelm Stables, or the Palace of the Kings. If i went straight to Kynesgrove getstage still returned 0, BUT.... and this is the kicker... if I go north from Kynesgrove to Windhelm Stables getstage returns 1 at the top of the ridge before you get there. The stables are visible in the distance, but still quite a way off. Approaching from Anga's Mill stage 1 of MS11 is triggered crossing the last bridge approaching Windhelm.

I also checked the variable MS11EnteringWindhelmCount and discovered that MS11 would not trigger if it was set to 1 or 2, but would again trigger if this was set to 3 or greater before traveling to Windhelm. The time thing turns out to be 7pm to 7am.

So the quest is triggered the when you enter the Windhelm AREA between 7pm and 7am after having visited the area at least 3 times before. This means the current description appears substantially correct, however entering through the main gate is not relevant.

It also means that the graveyard scene could be triggered by someone entering the area surrounding Windhelm at night without ever having entered the town itself or even the stables. As a lot of people (myself included) seem to have "lost" this quest I can only guess that if it is triggered but not acted upon, it could be wiped out by other quests; obviously the Dark Brotherhood quests that kill NPCs involved in MS11, and possibly others that use Windhelm as a stage.

A possible fix for this quest becoming lost might be to find out the ID of the guard who starts the mission and place him next to the player.

--ItMustBeLove — Unsigned comment by 220.236.232.188 (talk) at 16:25 on 29 January 2012 ItMustBeLove 02:01, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

  • Okay, so does anyone have a clue as to how to get this quest to trigger? I have tried everything suggested above to the best of my abilities (on Xbox), but it just WILL NOT TRIGGER! I have completed the Civil War quest line fighting for the Imperials, if that helps at all. Any suggestions that might get this ball rolling are greatly welcomed. Thank you. You'd think that by now Bethesda would know better than to make quests that are so easily, an seemingly unavoidably, broken.--Slim Jim 01:12, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Digging around in the CK almost confirms that trigger. The key is entering the Windhelm Area (WindhelmLocation) at least 3 times from a location not being Windhelm and not having the keyword LocTypeDwelling set (by fast travel or on foot). Then entering the Windhelm location a 4th time from such a location, with the time being between 7pm and 7am (at arrival). Now the quest is trigggered, to get it in the questlog one must go to the graveyard and speak with the guard. Personally I test-triggered the quest with a new character by fast travelling repeatedly between the Alchemist's Shack and Windhelm. --Alfwyn 19:55, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Slightly different version of the glitch?

My problem is that Susanna the Wicked is dead in the graveyard, the townsfolk are standing about, but there's no Guard around. I've tried leaving and reentering, fast travelling to different holds then reentering multiple time at night etc, but nothing helps. As far as I can remember this was the scene even when I first entered Windhelm - there was already the murder scene in the graveyard - just no Guard to talk to! Has anyone else had this particular version of the glitch? I've just updated to 1.4 and no change. I guess I'll have to resort to console command tomfoolery? — Unsigned comment by 87.194.201.204 (talk) at 23:12 on 1 February 2012

I had the exact same problem. My quest finally started as I first visit Hjerim (the house for sale in Windhelm) and discover the blood on the floor. Maybe this helps for you as well. AFAIK there is no console command to start a particular quest, so hope this will fix it for you. Ah, and I updated to patch 1.4 too (PC). Paramania 13:01, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Viola Missing.

So, I started the quest but now I can't find Viola. I have completed the stormcloak's quest, but that is it. I have already went inside the house, got the journals and the strange amulet. Then i went over to The Butcher, Caxicmo or what not, sold the amulet, but now i can't find Viola. There is no marker pointing to her, just the go talk to the steward. Any help? am I missing something. — Unsigned comment by 99.41.246.93 (talk) at 00:22 on 2 February 2012

Viola had a house somewhere in the town. In the night she should be there. Also she's hanging around in candlehearth hall frequently, especially after around 8 PM (+/- 3 hours, not sure), if i remember correctly. And... do you play on PC? There is a console command to teleport NPCs to your position, if you too lazy to search. Additionally, talk to Viola could be an optional step through the questline, so no pointer is showing. I think i read it somewhere. Paramania 13:07, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

More 360 Issues

I am also at a loss on how to get this quest to start. I have completed the story line, maxed out skills, at level 81 (Oghma Infinium/bookshelf glitch exploited), over 200 days passed (not sure the exact count), character has the beast blood, Stormcloak quest line completed, just now looking for the Staff of Magnus for the College of Winterhold and have become a Nightingale and head of the Thieves Guild. I've only been given the first 3 contracts for the Brotherhood so far and have only killed the man outside the sawmill near Windhelm. This quest would not trigger even before I maxed my character out. After a few times of being told that the house was for sale, but unavailible, I pickpocketed the key from the housecarl and entered the house. I've retrieved the amulet, the journels, and the papers from the house. I went as far as to replace the house key in Ulfric's housecarl's pocket. I have started a new parallel game using an Orc just so I can experiment with this touchy story line, but would love to trigger and complete it with my initial game. Going to try replacing all items where they should be and run from the sawmill into town as I have fast traveled to the stables many times, often at night and walked through the main gate. Even took the time to buy a horse and ride across the hold lines into the pale and back to try and trigger the quest. 360 is currently not connected to the internet and has had no Skyrim patch updates downloaded. — Unsigned comment by 209.173.184.161 (talk) at 04:53 on 2 February 2012

Moved from article

This sounds reasonable, but needs more testing before it goes on the article - and an explanation whether or not it was achieved using the 1.4 patch.

Note: Entering Windhelm 4x's is not required. Upon entering the city and hearing the locals talk about the murders, locate Captain Lonely Gale in the streets or Candlehearth(night). Speak to him about the killer then exit Windhelm and re-enter via main gate around 2am and head to graveyard. Susanna should be there.( This tested on all my 4 characters).

--Krusty 21:44, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Tried this on my character. Unfortunately did not work despite reloading saves before the Dark Brotherhood questline. getstage MS11 always returns 0. --24.141.114.185 20:23, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Skyrim: Blood on the Ice - Broken

(PS3 system) So I bought Hjerim in Windhelm and then started blood on the ice quest. Now the next steps in the quest are to get assistance from Jaerliff and investigate with Viola, both of which I have already done. The quest markers keep pointing to these people but there are no conversation choices from them for this quests. Also I cannot buy any decorations for the house (no options from the steward). Not sure what to do. --71.202.245.15 03:06, 4 February 2012 (UTC)Tiggs

Do you have the "Beware the Butcher" notes in your inventory? I was stuck at the same point you are - with the same problems - until I went back and picked up those notes. The dialogue options were available the next time I talked to Jaerliff (PS3 173.93.179.116 22:18, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
My problem is that I've already visited the city a number of times and the quest never activates. This situation existed for a while and is preventing me from buying the house in Windhelm. I then found the woman who committed suicide who had a key to the house on her remains. Once I entered the house I saw many investigation targets but could activate none of them. What to do? 129.10.198.45 16:03, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
Hmm, this is a new one. Your best bet (I know this theory was killed elsewhere,but it doesn't hurt to try) is to enter Windhelm through the main gate at night and check the cemetery. IF you are able to enter Hjerim, then the quest should (somehow) have triggered. Otherwise, you have found yet another bug to our collection! --Krusty 20:52, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Unkillable Calixto "fix"

I updated the bugs-section on the page with a link to a "fix" I made for this quest. It allows you to kill Calixto without requiring you to own the house or whatever. — Unsigned comment by 84.107.250.98 (talk) at 20:48 on 9 February 2012

1.4 patch doesn't fix the trigger (360)(PS3)

I just downloaded the 1.4 patch for 360, and no matter what I do the quest still will not trigger. Is this true for anyone still? — Unsigned comment by 24.8.70.94 (talk) at 21:50 on 9 February 2012

Is this on a new character, or one you were using before the patch? Alphabetface 04:16, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Yes this is a pre-patch character, however, I have noticed the other patch fixes are working, all except the Blood in the Ice trigger — Unsigned comment by 24.8.70.94 (talk) at 22:51 on 10 February 2012
Still wont trigger on the PS3 either! Kinda lame because I don't want to start a new character. I tried everything stealing the key to the house and reading the fliers and everything still won't trigger! — Unsigned comment by 71.59.242.217 (talk) at 18:37 on 10 February 2012
It's possible that because it was broken before you started playing, the fix only works if you haven't triggered it yet. Sorry. I'm in the same boat as you, except I can't even get the key because Tova Shatter-Shield's body has completely disappeared from the game (and yes, I've checked the Catacombs). • JATalk 18:43, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
The only thing that happened after the 1.4 patch is I walked into Windhelm and there was a dead body on the stair steps by "The Palace of Kings" And their was guards around the body the dead body was a guy forgot the name but the guard asked me if I knew anything about the death and I said no because that was my only option, And the guard asked me to report anything to the Guard Captain and nothing popped up or anything so I'm completely stumped, I think that was another glitch. — Unsigned comment by 71.59.242.217 (talk) at 19:22 on 10 February 2012
I just downloaded patch 1.4 for 360, and entered Windhelm at around 3:00 p.m. The scene still did not trigger. It was a pre-patch character, which may have something to do with it. Hope Bethesda creates a more thorough patch for this bug. — Unsigned comment by NightLord47 (talkcontribs) at 03:40 on 11 February 2012
it still doesn't trigger with me im on ps3 pre pached save. but i did start a new game..and still had troubles triggering, though it did trigger when i got the key from that girl and got into hjeirm on the new game. the murder scene still did not activate on the new game.Gutarjunky 04:49, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

() UNCONFIRMED FIX (XBOX 360)

OK, finally triggered BOTI properly. Post 1.4, with a pre 1.4 character. XBOX 360. My Character completed Civil War questline siding with Stormcloaks(thus visiting Windhelm and surrounding areas an uncountless amount of times). Killed Dark Bro.hood rather than becoming a part of them. Tried to buy house, but Jorlief just said something bad happened and it was unavailable. ALL characters related to this quest (i.e. Viola, Tova, Nelsine...etc.. were ALIVE) Tried to force trigger using multiple suggestions posted on basically every wiki site and forums on this subject. Still did NOT trigger. Downloaded patch 1.4. Still no good, using every method available again in force triggering. I stayed in Windhelm and saved, hoping that eventually Bethesda would come out with a better fix. Then I cleared my chaches of all my memory storages and old patches on my XBOX AND deleted 1.4 from the save files. Tried to play my character but could not. "This save file requires and updated Skyrim to play." Something along those lines. So I redownloaded patch 1.4. Loaded. I fast traveled out of Windhelm to Whiterune(about 2 am when I fast traveled out) In Whiterun, I waited 4 hrs, from 11:30 am or so, so it was 3 pm, then fast traveled to Windhelm(about 11:30 PM when I arrived) the actual city, rounded the corner to graveyard and lo and behold, at my abbated breath, there was the trigger scene with the Stormcloak guard. I will post when I complete quest or if I come up with any bugs along the way. Sorry if this was a long post, but I know details matter, however insignificate. The main thing I can suggest is to clear your cache from your memorie(s) AND delete the 1.4 patch from your save file(10mb) then redownload again. If there are others with similiar circumstances and can confirm it would be good to know for others. It is just what worked for me. Justxjayx 00:14, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

i tried something similar i can tell you that it has nothing to do with the update cache but maybe it has to do with the game storage but did not try it exactly how you did it not exactly like that, ill try itGutarjunky 09:15, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
Completed quest with only one minor insignificant glitch: body of Susanna (trigger scene) was not on the stone grave and Helgin was standing in her torso, literally, merely cosmetic. Other than that no bugs or glitches, (sold amulet to Calixto, confronted Wuurnreth without going to Jorlief, waited till 1:30 am to kill Calixto in Marketplace before he killed his next victim). Bought the house, cleaned it up, and bought decorations all at once, cleaning it up first. House plaques, mannequines, and display cases all function properly except that Stormcloaks Officers Headpiece does not appear on mannequine. Everything else went smoothly as I followed the walkthrough to the t.Justxjayx 23:26, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
Similar as above, had a pre-patch 1.4 character and Blood on the Ice was NOT triggering. Before I patched the game I saved in Whiterun, quit the game, then I cleared my Xbox 360's cash, then downloaded patch 1.4, loaded my game, fast travelled to Windhelm stables, waited 'till 2:00AM went inside the city and to the graveyard and they where all there and the guard talked to me and I began the quest. Hope this helps others. — Unsigned comment by 74.127.253.205 (talk) at 18:19 on February 29, 2012

This quest is bugged beyond repair for me. Calixto still unkillable and can't catch him.

I've read all the various versions of bugs here, including the section on Calixto being unkillable. Nothing seems to apply to my game. I tried this quest numerous ways (selling the amulet/not selling it, confronting the wizard/not confronting the wizard, grabbing only one clue/grabbing all clues [ex:amulet], etc). No matter how I collect clues (or which ones I grab), Viola only gives one response: talk to Jorleif. When I confront the wizard, I get a quest update to do the patrol, but it *immediately* updates to "catch the killer". The female victims mentioned in the above sections are alive and well (I haven't even touched Dark Brotherhood yet). When I leave the palace after confronting the wizard (and automatic update to "catch the killer"), I see a quest marker moving--every single time, Calixto runs to Heijrim and hides there where he cannot be killed by me or my follower. Ironically, I never had an issue getting the quest to trigger. I just can't finish the stupid thing. I give up. 8.20.205.156 04:32, 11 February 2012 (UTC)PoliNut

Clarification: quest automatically updates to "catch the killer" IMMEDIATELY after EITHER confronting the wizard OR talking to the wizard in jail. I tried both methods, and both ways Calixto is unkillable. If I try to get him before he goes into Heijrim (sp?), it's considered murder. If I wait, well, see above. He never EVER attempts to kill anyone. Here's to hoping the devs actually fix this quest sometime in the next few months. 8.20.205.156 23:51, 11 February 2012 (UTC)PoliNut

1.4 observations

I think it is safe to say that this quest is not really fixed yet - unless it is supposed to be like this. I played through it yesterday (installed the patch on a character that never entered Windhelm before) and triggering it still seems to be a mystery. From the previous patch (and all the tests I did on the bugs) I had a lot of tricks up my sleeve and back then, I was able to trigger it on all attempts. With the 1.4, however, I couldn’t. First, second and third visits at night didn’t come up with any scene in the cemetery and my tricks didn’t work any longer – then again, maybe they never did. I ended up traveling back and forth and lost count – and then it finally triggered. Rest of the quest seemed like always, with the usual bugs and twists. Don’t really know what to say except that I hope the CK can help with how it is actually triggered, so we can get a bullet-proof method. Other than that, it seems like the walkthrough is still reliable. I hope. --Krusty 08:12, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

CK info for starting MS11

The trigger for this qeust is in the associated quest MS11Kicker, which says the following:

EnterWindhelmCount.SetValueInt(EnterWindhelmCount.GetValueInt() + 1)
Debug.Trace("MS11: Counting entrance to Windhelm -- " + EnterWindhelmCount.GetValueInt())
if ((EnterWindhelmCount.GetValueInt() >= 4))
if ( (GameHour.GetValueInt() >= 19) || (GameHour.GetValueInt() < 7) )
Debug.Trace("MS11: Kicking quest start on Windhelm entrance #" + EnterWindhelmCount.GetValueInt())
MS11.Start()
endif
endif
if (MS11.GetStageDone(100) && !MS11.GetStageDone(105))
if (GameDaysPassed.Value > FollowupStartDay.Value)
MS11.SetStage(105)
endif
endif
Stop()

So the quest will start when EnterWindhelmCount (which is actually the global variable MS11EnterWindhelmCount) is 4 or more, and it is between 19:00 and 07:00.

The second if block is the check for the 'extra' murder after you've accused Wuunferth. Here, FollowupStartDay is the global variable MS11FollowupStartDay, which is set to GameDaysPassed.Value + 3 when Wuunferth is arrested; therefore the 'extra' murder will take place four days after accusing Wuunferth.

As for when MS11Kicker is triggered, it's set as a Change Location Event and is attached to the SM Event Node MS11WindhelmEntranceCounting. This appears to be triggered when your new location is WindhelmLocation and your old location is not WindhelmLocation and is not a LocTypeDwelling.

WindhelmLocation is a Location that is centred on the XMarker #0002A975, positioned just north of Candlehearth Hall. It includes all of the exterior cells in WindhelmWorld (the city worldspace) as well as the docks, the four bridge locations, and the five locations used for the Imperial Camp during the Civil War quest, all of which are in the Tamriel worldspace. It does not appear to contain cell #0000B51E, which is the Wilderness cell containing the road junction just south of the bridge into Windhelm, but it does contain the small bridge just west of that junction (heading towards Anga's mill, Uttering Hills, etc.), as that is in WindhelmBridge02. This probably explains why the counter goes up rather rapidly if you wander around outside of Windhelm.

--Gaebrial 18:23, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

I found the strange amulit that i found in the house in windhelm but then it dissaper out of my items — Unsigned comment by 71.136.36.136 (talk) at 15:54 on 15 February 2012

FIXED. if you are willing to go back to an earlyer save : /

this is an email i got from bethesda support. i had emailed them a few hours after the patch came out and i just got the email now. i tried what they told me to do and it worked. i have to make up for 50-60 hours of gameplay from starting from an earlier save (that i had saved onto a flash drive.) but it does work

Hi, If your quest is not triggering, or you are stuck in a glitch that was to be fixed with the latest patch, it's possible you may need to start from an earlier save point, then save again and continue up to the quest that was giving you issues.

The patch does not fix past saves, only new saves. Every older save is associated with the older patch, and every new save is associated with the latest patch. Gutarjunky 20:01, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Can't Start "Blood on the Ice"!

Post moved here from [[Talk:Blood on the Ice]]

I have tried -everything- I read to try to start "Blood on the Ice" so I could purchase Hjerim and become Thane, and nothing is triggering the quest. I do have "Season Unending" open b/c I have a problem with it as well (can't talk to Tullius about the conference after already talking to Ulfric). I also have killed Nilsine for Dark Brotherhood. I found Tova's body in her house and got the Key, so entered Hjerim and found the pamphlets, journals, and amulet. Several things in the house are labeled "Target: InvestigateTarget", which is obviously a bug. Quest does not start no matter what. I tried talking to each Helgrid, Jorlief, Viola, and Wuunferth, and none have any dialog option about the murders. Are there any more patches for this quest on the way? Anything else I can try to trigger the quest? Very frustrated.

On a different save, I followed through the Civil War on the Imperials side (joining was the only way I could talk to Tullius about the conference), and afterwords talked to Jorlief and said I wanted to purchase the house (only speech option), but he just said there were some unpleasantries in the house and it's not available yet.

Any help or pointers greatly appreciated. Thanks. — Unsigned comment by Gwaelaurien (talkcontribs) on 19 February 2012

I got the glitch where the guard isn't at the murder scene. I got the quest to fix by picking the lock on Hjerim and investigating the house. Seems to have works the rest of the way. Lord Eydvar 03:27, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
Gwaelaurien: I don't understand the people who say they picked the lock to Hjerim, as it always says "this lock cannot be picked, requires key". I tried from my earliest save of all, the only difference being that I'd already talked to Aventus Arentino. I started two NEW games, and they both got this quest started and done, no problem! In both new games I did this quest BEFORE talking to Aventus, and it worked. — Unsigned comment by Gwaelaurien (talkcontribs) at 05:09 on 25 February 2012
First off IDK why you mention Aventus Arentino since he has no relation to this quest whatsoever. As for the picking the lock, its either caused by one of the newer patches or programmed to happen if you take the city during the Imperial Legion quests. Because as of when I usually do the quest the lock is a Master Level not a Requires Key. Therefore you can bypass the issue by picking the lock and entering the house which jumps the quest to that point. Lord EydvarTalk 15:25, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Previous Save Didn't Matter

Post moved here from [[Talk:Blood on the Ice]]

I tried out a previous save, probably 40 levels ago, before I had joined the Dark Brotherhood and killed Nilsine. I got the SAME results trying to start this quest! I waited til midnight and went to the graveyard: empty. I pickpocketed the key to Hjerim from Tova and entered, got all the pamphlets, journals, amulet. No quest started, and still said "InvestigateTarget" everywhere. — Unsigned comment by Gwaelaurien (talkcontribs) at 11:39 on 20 February 2012

Quest won't continue

I started this quest, but then walked away and began to work with the imperials on those quests. After the imperials captured Windhelm I went to return to the quest. It says to return to the guard but the arrow just points to the ground in the graveyard. Anyone encounter the same problem? If so can you help me? — Unsigned comment by 68.236.149.107 (talk) at 01:52 on 21 February 2012

The guard that you are supposed to return to is a Windhelm guard, and all Windhlem guards are replaced by Imperial soldiers after completing the Battle for Windhelm. The quest marker arrow points to the ground because this guard doesn't exist anymore. Returning to a save before the Battle for Windhelm would work. If you don't have a save from before that, it might be possible to go on by entering Hjerim, but this quest is really glitchy and that still might not work. To enter Hjerim, you can either pick the lock, or get the key from Tova Shatter-Shield. I would recommend trying the previous save game if you have one, then entering Hjerim to move on to a later quest objective. If those things don't work for you, read the previous posts in this discussion page (and the archive, linked on the top right of page) because a lot of people have had issues with this quest, and various workarounds have been suggested which work for some players depending on what stage of the quest they're in. Good luck! Alphabetface 02:47, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

No Viola

Quest started for me just fine. Talked to Jarleif, then back to crime scene guard, then to Hall of Dead lady, then traced blood trail to Hjerim, then to Jarleif again; who told me to go to Tova, went to Tova, got key to Hjerim, got journals and butcher postings and amulet, went to Jarleif who told me to go to Calixto and Viola.....Here is where I'm having trouble. I can go to Calixto and sell amulet just fine, AND he DOES have an arrow above his head. However, there is no arrow marker for Viola and she is NOWHERE to be found. Not in house, not in Hall of Dead. Anyone else? I feel like my glitch is unique because quest triggered just fine and I progressed smoothly until THIS point. Help.

forgot to sign69.242.140.8 13:43, 26 February 2012 (UTC)Jeffythegreat

Did I Screw Myself Up?

- This is the one mission I've wanted to play half as badly as the Dark Brotherhood story! And it won't start! Here's my situation; I'm a 26 Imperial Warrior, no sides in the Civil War, finished the Dark Brotherhood quests. I have been to Windhelm at least 40 TIMES, in and out without fast travel (unless Windhelm Stables counts...) and still nothing. I've offed Nilsene, taken Tova's key to Hjerim, and found both Butcher's Journals. So my question is... Well, look at the title. — Unsigned comment by 208.72.174.167 (talk) at 03:00 on 27 February 2012

Clues inside Hjerim can't be found

This is a bug I haven't seen discussed, so I thought I'll share:

The death of Susanna the Wicked triggered. Followed the leads as per the description up to the point where you must enter Hjerim and look for clues. However, once inside Hjerim, nothing in there can be interacted with. The article suggests ignoring some mead and following the blood trail to a chest in the southeast of the house to find the pamphlets. I can see no mead, no blood, and no chest anywhere inside. There are two wardrobes in the west of the ground floor and a night table-like piece of furniture between them with a pile of paper slips inside it. However, neither of these can be interacted with in any way: moving close and positioning the cursor does NOT cause the word "cupboard" or "pamphlet" to pop up, pressing the mouse button does NOT open/pick up the thing, and a click-drag does NOT move the leaflets around.

This is with version 1.4.21.0.4 of the game (PC). Neither the Imperial Legion nor the Stromcloak questlines have been initiated. One thing that might be relevant is that earlier on I've burgled the House of Curiosities on a lark and found a Butcher's Journal - but it did not seem to initiate any quests, at least nothing appeared in the quest browser.

Has this particular bug been reported before? Is there a known fix? — Unsigned comment by 212.40.116.165 (talk) at 00:47 on 1 March 2012

EDIT: Okay, further investigation found that this is NOT a problem inherent in the game, but the result of a mod interfering with the mission. So, I guess, problem wasn't a genuine problem, after all. — Unsigned comment by 212.40.116.165 (talk) at 21:13 on 1 March 2012


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