Skyrim talk:Deceiving the Herd

Glitch With Bound Until Death

I was doing the Dark Brotherhood quest (The one titled) and when I shot the bride with a crossbow I escaped quickly. However I can't be certain as I wasn't paying attention properly but decieving the herd quest started and told me to plant the incriminating letter on the bride. However I am 100% certain I had not started this quest (because I don't like to do it and reload my game when it's given to me so I can have another) and I had no letter to place on the body. I tried to fix it by travelling to a city where I had done this quest and using that incriminating letter however that did not rectify the problem. Fortunately I had saved my game not long before so I have just gone back to that and I'll get another quest from castle Volkhair so it doesn't happen during this quest. But seems as there no way to cancel the castle Volkahair quest it seems as though it is a serious glitch ad should be noted in both respective articles. --SamGhadiali 13:11, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

The same thing happened to me in Markarth during "No One Escapes Cidhna Mine." I had betray Madanach to get both rewards and when I attempted to lay the escaping prisoners I started "Deceiving the Herd" and was directed to put a letter I did not have on the forsworn I had killed. With some ingenuity, I was able to lure them up to the tower and Unrelenting force them to their deaths without triggering the quest. In my next visit to Castle Volkihar, I was given the quest "Deceiving the Herd" in Markarth. My hypothesis is that in the event that the next vampire quest will be "Deceiving the Herd," a kill in the city it is to be set in will prematurely activate it. I see no possible way to remedy this on the X-box 360, but I think it is definately a glitch to be put on the main page. Garland the Elder 09:00, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and added the bug to the page, feel free to tweak as necessary, just remember that each instance of the bug may have small variations, such as the differences between both of yours. ABCface^◥ 09:09, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

I just encountered this myself, and after some testing I found something interesting: If you had Deceiving the Herd active beforehand and THEN kill Vici as part of this quest, you get a fail flag for the high-profile victim objective. ThuumofReason 21:23, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Corpulus Vinius

After wasting half an hour confirming that I was going to have to attack him to get him to leave his inn, I found out that he doesn't count as high profile. He either needs to be removed from the list on the page, or I've encountered some sort of bug.--Playerseekingbugs 05:04, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Jala counts, but isn't on the list.--Playerseekingbugs 05:12, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

I'll delete Corpulus from the page, and add Jala, but feel free to do this yourself in the future. One user added all those names, and someone else has already removed another, so I'm assuming it's not entirely accurate. ABCface^◥ 05:17, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. No offense to whoever was trying to get this page done, but with one person missed and two proving incorrect so far it would seem that wherever they got their info was less reliable than expected. If I get this quest again, I will attempt to manipulate the city chosen by saving prior to talking to the quest-giver. Assuming that works, I'll take advantage of it to test all merchants and court members in each city to see who counts and who doesn't. I suspect that court mages that aren't essential for some reason might count too, though most that I've observed never seem to enter the streets, so they might only fill the high-profile optional objective.--Playerseekingbugs 06:00, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

It would definitely seem that whoever put that list there was wrong about most of it, considering some of the towns they had on there aren't even eligible as the assigned city from Feran. I've removed the ones I know for sure don't count, and added a {{cleanup}} tag to the article. Please edit the article to remove any which are incorrect and add any which need to be added. ABCface^◥ 13:25, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

High profile targets

I have removed Kerah from the list of high profile targets in Markath as I receive a Failed flag on that part of the quest when she is killed. --Trithemius 02:43, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

The captain from Windheld yields the same result as well: Fail. (Captain Lonely-Gale) — Unsigned comment by 188.25.130.161 (talk) at 06:38 on 6 August 2012

It would seem that whoever put that list there was wrong about most of it, considering some of the towns originally entered aren't even eligible as the assigned city from Feran. I've removed the ones I know for sure don't count, and added a {{cleanup}} tag to the article. Please edit the article to remove any which are incorrect and add any which need to be added, rather than listing them here. ABCface^◥ 13:25, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I've removed Calixto Corrium from the high profile list in Windhelm because I received failed flag after killing him in public. Raijin 03:30, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

I have removed Ghorza gra-Bagol form the High Profile list in Markarth: I receive the fail flag for the high profile target when she's killed. — Unsigned comment by 93.44.104.169 (talk) at 16:39 on 12 August 2012

I added Ogmund to the Markarth high profile list because after completing the quest, after killing the selected NPC, I received a complete flag. Raijin 02:25, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

(←) In Markarth, if you manage to get Ondolemar or any of his guards out in the street, they count as high profile targets, but will fail the "wear Dawnguard armor" optional objective. Buggy, buggy quest. — Unsigned comment by 116.49.141.177 (talk) at 05:56 on 2 October 2012‎

Removed Bothela from the Markarth list. Just killed her and failed the high profile option. — Unsigned comment by 116.49.141.177 (talk) at 06:22 on 2 October 2012‎

Just to be certain, did you kill her on the streets or in her shop? — ABCface^◥ 06:25, 2 October 2012 (GMT)

In the streets, it gave me the public/Dawnguard armor optional objection, but not the high profile one. On a related note, managed to get Ondolemar to give me the public/Dawnguard armor objective, just had to cut his throat with a guard watching (apparently all other attempts only counted as "assaults", was being fined 40 gold instead of 1000). — Unsigned comment by 116.49.141.177 (talk) at 11:11 on 2 October 2012‎

Bothela's a real oddball. If I killed her in the streets with nobody watching, she counted as a high-profile target, but of course, I failed the part about being seen killing her. If I killed her in the streets with someone watching, the being seen requirement was passed, but the high-profile requirement inexplicably failed. I never did figure out why. I'd be curious to know if anybody else sees this behaviour. – Robin Hood↝talk 04:47, 3 October 2012 (GMT)

(←) For riften Asbjorn Fire-Tamer is considered high profile but it might only be after Balimund is killed and takes over the shop. I don't know for sure though since Balimund is already dead in my game so i can't test that. I would also take a guess that Balimund is high profile as well, why would his son be but not him, but can't verify for the same reason that he is already dead in my game. I would edit it myself but i have no idea what i am doing. First time ever even attempting to edit a wiki. — Unsigned comment by 174.79.147.111 (talk) at 02:54 on 19 October 2012‎

I killed Mikael while he was sleeping in his bed, wearing the armor, and with another person in the next room. He died on the third hit, but the quest did not update and I could not leave the Incriminating Note. I don't think he's flagged as a High Profile Target in-game coding. — Unsigned comment by Candle (talk • contribs) at 02:07 on 28 April 2013

You have to murder the victim publicly in the streets in order for it to count. — ABCface^◥ 13:39, 28 April 2013 (GMT)

Possible Glitch with Ebony Blade

I'm not sure what proper procedure so I'll just describe the issue I had.

While completing the quest I decided that it would be a good opportunity to add kills to the Ebony Blade. I befriended Marise Aravel and killed her, satisfying Decevining the Herd requirements. It did not count as completed however. After killing Madesi it counted as objectives complete. After reloading this persisted, and if I only killed Madesi then the quest would also count as advanced.

A similar thing happened when in Windhelm I tried to kill Jora; but I'm not sure if she satisfies Ebony Blade requirements. --Droviin 00:13, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Exact same thing happened to me- when I used the ebony blade to kill a friend in Whiterun, it wouldn't register as completed. I had to kill someone neutral in order for the quest to proceed. Tested with Idolaf Battleborn; killing him before having the 'Graymane or Battleborn?'conversation let the quest proceed, killing him after answering 'Battleborn' and raising his disposition did not. I'm adding it to the bugs section. Rouxez 16:10, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Query?

Is there any reason to go for the optional objectives in this? I kinda pride myself on never getting caught committing a crime. Is there some better/unique reward for killing a high profile target (most of whom I don't want to kill anyway when there are countless random guards to choose from)? And while I can pay off the guards easily enough, I just prefer to avoid the hassle. — Unsigned comment by BunBun299 (talk • contribs) at 14:14 on 8 August 2012

As far as I have noticed, no. I wouldn't recommend doing this quest because all you get is a blood potion and you have to kill somebody in a city which really adds up after a while. RIM 14:29, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

So, follow up question, is there a way to not get this quest to come up, or cancel it if it does? Also, when it does come up, if I just kill a city guard, do they respawn? I feel only slightly bad about killing respawning NPCs. — Unsigned comment by BunBun299 (talk • contribs) at 00:53 on 9 August 2012

As long as you have a save from before taking the quest, you can avoid it. Simply talk to a different questgiver in the castle. I've found that sometimes when Fura or Vingalmo tell me to speak with Feran, I can reload and they'll send me to the other instead (this works for all three, if you want to avoid any one of them... I was avoiding Vingalmo's quests because he kept giving me the exact same New Allegiances quest for someone I had already turned). So you can definitely avoid quests from Feran altogether (sure on this one), or you might be able to get a different quest from him when you're sent to him a separate time (this one I'm not as sure about, since every time I went back to Vingalmo he gave me the exact same one, ignoring the others he can give).

As for the city guards, they should respawn. So that's another way to go if you still want to complete it successfully.

Also, according to the quest stages in game data, there is a way to "fail" the quest (which technically completes the quest by removing it from your active quest log), but someone with the CK would be more able to figure out exactly what would result in the quest being marked as failed, since there's no related details listed in CSList. ABCface^◥ 01:06, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

If you kill someone who is not a high profile target it fails. Also a guard is not considered a high profile target. — Kimi the Elf ^{(talk | contribs)} 01:45, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Does the whole thing fail, or just the optional objective? One of the notes on the page implies that killing a guard completes the quest, so if it fails more than just that one objective, that should be specified. ABCface^◥ 02:57, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

(←) The objective fails. — Kimi the Elf ^{(talk | contribs)} 03:00, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I reanimate my first "Deceiving the Herd" victim and kill it within the required city to satisfy the optional objective. I got the idea when I failed the quest due to killing a dead thrall. Eclecnec (talk) 21:11, 27 January 2013 (GMT)

Killing Weylin fails the quest

Killing Weylin (The Forsworn Conspiracy murderer), planting Incriminating Letter on him and then using area transition will fail this quest completely. I reckon it's because Weylin's corpse will disappear from the game as soon as you exit Markarth worldspace (to Understone Keep or to Skyrim). 84.251.33.3 07:20, 11 August 2012 (UTC)JT

Dawnguard hitsquad:What the hell is their problem?

I've not talked to any dawnguard hunters since I recieved the first quest so Theyn don't know im a vampire. For some strange reason however, As I enter Riften to perform this quest (fully clad in Dawnguard armor, not even wearing pendants, rings or anything else) I get ATTACKED by a group of the vampire hunters. anyone else got this or has any explanation towards this?

ALso: Im NOT on stage 4 vampirism, and I havent been caught feeding or has anyone seen me as vampire lord. — Unsigned comment by 186.185.52.224 (talk) at 21:33 on August 13, 2012

It's a random event that can happen anytime after you become a Vampire Lord regardless of who knows what. Vely^►t►e 02:19, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

I have an additional question regarding these scouts. Does anyone know how many attack at a time (for example, is it always two, or three, or what)?--Vulpa 15:32, 28 December 2012 (GMT)

Looks like DLC1WE08 always creates one melee (1 hand) and two archers, all just called "Dawnguard". --Alfwyn (talk) 17:56, 28 December 2012 (GMT)

Thanks for answering. But there now seems to be a naming inconsistency. Everywhere I've looked (other pages here and the CS), they are called "Dawnguard Scouts". But in-game (if that's where you checked) they are just "Dawnguard"? Suffice it to say I'm slightly confused. :/ --Vulpa 18:05, 28 December 2012 (GMT)

I think "Dawnguard scouts" are only the ones you find near Volkihar Castle sneaking around. The rest are just "Dawnguard". --Iconoclasta (talk) 10:08, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

Crossbow

The article says you are given dawnguard armor as well as a crossbow, but I only recieved armor, no crossbow. I just thought I would mention it here instead of editing the article because Im not sure if this is the norm, or if maybe its some random little glitch that I didnt recieve a crossbow. Can anyone confirm? 71.181.54.110 22:59, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Same on 360 you get full suit heavy dawnguard armor but no crossbow or bolts. I don't think it's a glitch I think that's what it gives you. As it says in the talk further up someone who seems to have been rather wrong on a lot of the stuff wrote most of the page originally. So I'm thinking that that's just another incorrect part. Can anyone confirm for PC/PS3? Lord Eydvar^Talk 18:47, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Actually, it was me that put the info about the crossbow in, not the editor that put in all the incorrect high profile victim info. And I'm thinking it was a mistake on my part-- maybe I already had a crossbow in my inventory (from one of those scouts that attack you on the island outside the keep, I would guess) and just thought that Feran had given me that as well as the armor? I'm not entirely sure, as that was nearly a month ago at this point. I guess we should leave the {{VN}} tag up on the page and if anyone else can confirm that they didn't get a crossbow, we can remove it. Sorry for the trouble! ABCface^◥ 19:44, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Ah its no big deal ABCface, just needed noting that at the moment you don't seem to get a crossbow. Once it's confirmed as either a glitch or correct someone can remove the VN note. Lord Eydvar^Talk 20:31, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi All! I came across your talk page while looking up info on this particular quest and I thought it might be helpful to add an additional confirmation on the "no crossbow subject". I just started this quest not 10 mins ago and I can confirm at least on the PC version that I did not receive a crossbow. I received the full set of DG armour but I did not receive a crossbow. :) - Eglyntine -- "Fairness Is An Illusion We Do Not Provide Here..." - NLM - -- 03:59, 5 September 2012 (EDT)

Thanks for the info! In that case, it was a mistake on my part when writing the walkthrough; I'll go ahead and remove that part from the page. — ABCface^◥ 08:48, 5 September 2012 (EDT)

Glitch After Installing Dragonborn DLC

Immediately after installing the Dragonborn DLC and while some way through the Dawnguard DLC I entered Riften and was attacked by the Cultists which begins the Dragonborn main quest. After killing them I received the Deceiving the Herd quest, telling me to plant the Incriminating Letter on the Cultist Adept. I went to Feran Sadri to try and receive the quest but only had the option of bartering with him. I fixed this by pickpocking the letter from him, planting it and returning to complete the quest - obviously missing a few optional parts but the quest can at least be cleared. I thought I'd post this in case anyone else has this problem. — Unsigned comment by OmegaPoint (talk • contribs) at 22:22 on 11 December 2012‎

This is a known bug, listed at the top of the Bugs section on this article. Thanks for the extra info on solving the issue. — ABCface^◥ 22:30, 11 December 2012 (GMT)

High profile.

I have been sent to Raven Rock with this radiant quest. I choose Garyn Lenth and received credit for the high profile option. Incidently, Mogrul did NOT result in credit for the high profile option during a separate attempt. — Unsigned comment by 24.63.215.237 (talk) at 01:11 on 22 January 2013

Added. — ABCface^◥ 03:58, 22 January 2013 (GMT)

High Profile Targets 2

digging into scripts,

Scripts\Source\Dawnguard\DLC1RV03KillActorMonitorScript.psc:

...
if DLC1Radiant.IsHighProfileTarget(akVictim)
        Debug.Trace(self + "IS high profile target")
        HighProfileTarget = 1
else
        Debug.Trace(self + "is NOT high profile target")
        HighProfileTarget = 0
endif
...

Scripts\Source\Dawnguard\DLC1RadiantScript.psc:

...
bool Function IsHighProfileTarget(ObjectReference akVictim)
        Actor Victim = akVictim as Actor
        return IsActorInFactionInFormlist(Victim, DLC1RadiantHighProfileFactions)
EndFunction
...

So, we basically just have to find out which NPCs are in "DLC1RadiantHighProfileFactions" in Creation Kit (or TES5Edit? cuz CK always crash for me...), this should be easier than "f5 -> murder -> check quest descriptions -> f9".

However, "DLC1RadiantHighProfileFactions (020050C3)" is not a normal faction (like "JobHousecarlFaction" or "JobInnkeeperFaction"), it's a FormID List of factions:

• GovRuling "Ruling Government" [FACT:0003662A]
• CompanionsCirclePlusKodlak [FACT:00109C71]
• CWFieldCoFaction [FACT:000C4A99]
• GovExiled "Exiled Government" [FACT:00036629]
• JobBardFaction [FACT:00053514]
• JobBlacksmithFaction [FACT:0005091D]
• JobCourtWizardFaction [FACT:0005091E]
• JobHousecarlFaction [FACT:0005091F]
• JobInnkeeperFaction [FACT:0005091B]
• JobJusticiar [FACT:0005CCAE]
• JobMerchantFaction [FACT:00051596]
• JobPriestFaction [FACT:0005159A]

I'm trying to write a TES5Edit script to extract these information for me, but I'm zero experience in pascal programming so that may take some time.

Palatis (talk) 00:08, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

The papurys script also show that it's checking for the keyword "DLC1RV03HunterGarb [KYWD:020050C8]" to be considered "disguised," and the only equipments has that specific keyword are:

• 020050C6: DLC1ArmorHunterCuirass (Dawnguard Armor)
• 0200F3F7: DLC1ArmorDawnguardCuirassHeavy1 (Dawnguard Heavy Armor)
• 0200F3FA: DLC1ArmorDawnguardCuirassHeavy2 (Dawnguard Heavy Armor)
• 0200F3FB: DLC1ArmorDawnguardCuirassLight1 (Dawnguard Armor)
• 0200F402: DLC1ArmorDawnguardCuirassLight2 (Dawnguard Armor)
• 0200F404: DLC1ArmorDawnguardCuirassLight3 (Dawnguard Armor)

--- Yes, you only have to wear the body armor, not any other parts (helmet, gloves, nor boots).

Palatis (talk) 00:26, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

Okay I have a raw list on pastebin: [Skyrim High Profile NPCs], someone got time to file them into their cities? XD

Palatis (talk) 00:35, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

That's a lot of work, the same list cane be found here. Unless there is something to exempt people from the quest this is a less informative, though tidier layout, but will require going through who is where. Unless someone else has nothing to do for a while, I may try to do this, though obviously some will only be killable at certain times, and I'll try to mark as many as I can. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 00:54, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

Here we go. I sandboxed it, as it still needs filtering for permanently essential characters, but feel free to work on it from there. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 22:10, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

Didn't consider armor

I got the request to go to Riften so I decided to kill Grelka because she's rude. I was wearing all the Dawnguard Armor that Feran gave me and even killed her with a Dawnguard battle axe and shield. When I returned to him he thanked me for killing a high-ranking person, but said I should have worn the armor and that the letter would have to do. Thing is, to avoid the 1000 kill-on-sight bounty I just cast Frenzy on her to get her to attack me and I'd only get an 80 bounty. I got caught after she died and I placed the letter on her and just decided to pay off the 80 gold. I DID perform the killing blow because the journal updated and even said I killed her wearing the dawnguard armor and that all the optional conditions were satisfied. Is this some hidden problem with magically inciting to riot? 130.184.79.91 21:53, 19 April 2013 (GMT)