Skyrim talk:Destruction

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Archive 1: Nov. 2011 - Jan. 2012
Archive 2: Feb. 2012 - Jul. 2012

Error on Cloak spells.

The page says Fire/Frost/Shock Cloak spells do Fire/Frost/Shock Cloak 10pts for 60 seconds which sounds like the spells do 10pts/s instead of 8 as in the description. In fact, the Fire/Frost/Shock Cloak effect of the spell is cast on self and it applies a secondary spell on target, which is called FlameCloakDmg, FrostCloakDmg and LightningCloakDmg. All these 3 spells are identical to Flames, Frostbite and Spark and properly have MagicDamageFire, MagicDamageFrost and MagicDamageShock keyword so they are affected by the Augmented Flames/Frost/Lightning perks. The Bugs section says otherwise.

I did a test to see if the perks truly affected the cloak spells: I spawned a Wolf with no resistance, set its health to 1000 and cast Frost Cloak spells twice on Adept difficulty:

- The 1st time without Augmented Frost: after 60 seconds, the Wolf received 487.55 damage (8*60= 480=> the Frost Cloak does 8pts/s as in the description)

- The 2nd time with both Augmented Frost: after 60 seconds, the Wolf received 725.92 damage (8*1.5*60= 720)

In short, the Cloak spells do 8 pts/second and are affected by Augmented Flames/Frost/Lightning perks. The Bug section is wrong and the information on the Spell table is misleading.117.5.243.19 13:01, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

I have Augmented Flames 1, and I see on my Magic menu that Flames has been upped to 10 points per second, but Flame Cloak is still listed as doing only 8. Anyone know why this is so? 76.185.41.201 21:45, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

For those interested; this is because most magic effects have a description like: "Does <mag> damage to foe". And the game automatically fills in the <mag> and updates it. However, the maginitude of cloak spells is their area of effect. As has been pointed out, the "cloak" itself casts another SEPERATE spell on foes who enter their area of effect. So the magnitude of the cloak magic effect is not true to the actual damage of the effect. To get around this, the magic effect of a cloak spell is "Does <8> points of damage to foe". This makes the 8 big and colourful as spell magnitudes are, but it will never be anything other than 8. 90.206.126.74 19:04, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

>>>Q: Are the cloak spells therefore also exempt from being nerfed by Expert or Master level difficulty, since they aren't technically an "attack"? 76.185.41.201 06:15, 20 December 2012 (GMT)

Augment blah blah work for cloak spells, tested on stormcloaks (i'm with imperial), takes 18 seconds-ish to kill one with fire cloak, takes 13ish to kill one with storm cloak with 2 ranks in augment lightnings. also confirmed dual casting does not increase damage (still take 13ish seconds to kill one stormcloak) Dawn (talk) 03:08, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

also confirmed augments don't work for rune spells, same setup, fire runes kill slightly faster (burn effect) than 2 rank augments lightning runes Dawn (talk) 03:12, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

Blizzard spell

Does blizzard do any damage at all? I just see it make a little hurricane picking up small objects and swirling them around me while hurting me a bit and enemys not at all. — Unsigned comment by 24.128.66.131 (talk) at 05:08 on 26 June 2012

Yes, it does. However, it takes your own resistance into calculation then applies the damage to enemies (a bug due to the conflict between the 2 magic effects assigned to it). That means if you have high magic/frost resistance or worse, both, Blizzard will be very pathetic.117.5.17.11 17:21, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Is that true on all platforms? — Unsigned comment by 69.123.223.32 (talk) at 17:34 on 17 July 2012

If this is true, then someone with access to the CK should check the two different magic effects and add it as a bug..--81.225.78.221 13:20, 22 February 2013 (GMT)

Jumping in forges to raise destruction.

Confirming it still works in version 1.6.89.0.6, I just tested it. The page previously claimed it to be fixed in 1.4. Dkamm65 08:01, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, although it at least had a Verification Needed tag slapped on it, indicating that it needed confirmation. I've also confirmed it, so clearly it was wrong. I updated the wording slightly, since just jumping in once only increases Destruction by a small amount. – Robin Hood↝talk 18:25, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

I just added the verification tag again. I believe this bug was fixed in the official 1.9 patch. Dbbolton (talk) 16:41, 15 June 2013 (GMT)

The only change made by any patch was the v1.2 of the USKP. The official patch has never gone near this "issue". Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 17:08, 15 June 2013 (GMT)

Enemy Destruction damage scaling

It appears enemies' Destruction spell damage increases with level or skill, unlike the player character's. I have heard several testimonies, and have more than one of my own, that points towards this being the case. For one example: when fighting an Arch Necromancer in the quest "The Black Star", my character died in a single hit from an Ice Storm spell. Ice Storm, with both Augmented perks, deals a maximum of 60 damage. Dual cast, a maximum of 132. And yet, my character, who was at full health (with no frost or magic resistance), which was 230 health points, died in a single hit. Does anybody know if enemy Destruction magic does indeed scale? -- Ninety — Unsigned comment by 200.74.52.63 (talk) at 20:19 on 24 July 2012

They don't cast the same spells as the player, have different perks and also there is the matter of difficulty level. 90.206.126.67 13:29, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

The spells look the same. Is there anywhere to see the stats of these spells and perks? And I was playing on Adept, for reference. — Unsigned comment by 200.74.52.63 (talk) at 01:53 on 29 July 2012

I can make a spell that uses the Fire Storm visual effect to mass reanimate corpses, heal nearby machines and instantly kill myself. Similarly I can make one that simply deals 1 damage to all foes around me. A spell's visual effect is not important for determining effects and spell magnitudes. You could consider using the CK? 90.206.126.74 19:09, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Also, as per the original point, Ice Storm fires a projectile that can keep applying its effect as long as you stay inside it. If the spell staggered you (knocking you backwards), or you were just moving in away that kept you in its area of effect, then it could of struck you twice. That would be 264 damage if dual cast, and that's not including any weird perks/abilities/stronger version of the spell that particular actor may have had. 90.206.126.74 19:13, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

It didn't, but I see the point. I'm playing on console, however, so asking around is my only means of getting information. The Ice Storm isn't the only example, however, since I'd been one-shot by Chain Lightning before. Thanks, anyway. — Unsigned comment by 190.101.97.40 (talk) at 03:29 on 14 August 2012

Enemy Mages use the exact same spells as the player, saying they don't is extremely bad information. The higher level you character goes the stronger the enemy Mages get and the better their spells get, until eventually, you start facing Arch Cryomancers, Pyromancers etc who use every spell up to Expert level. The Arch Pyromancers/Cryomancers/Electromancers are also given both the augmented perks for their chosen branch of destruction magic. 86.25.220.28

Ice Storm appears to have a bug where it will instantly kill a player if they are caught by the outer edge of the spell. This is repeatable with any NPC who casts the spell, but particularly noticeable with Malkoran. Standing still and taking the full brunt of Ice Storm will do considerable damage, but trying to avoid it and being caught by the very edge will almost always instantly kill a player, regardless of their health. — Unsigned comment by ‎ 98.194.185.178 (talk) at 02:45 on 31 March 2013

Rune Spell on NPC not causing bounty - moved from article, needs verification.

If you cast a rune, leave the area, and then return, the symbol for the spell will have disappeared and it will not have been triggered by any patrolling NPC's. However, when an NPC walks over where you initially cast the spell while you are present, the rune will trigger and the NPC will turn hostile but it will not count as a crime and other NPC's will treat it as a brawl. (tested with Farengar on PS3).

This is unusual enough that it should be verified before being added to the article. --Xyzzy^Talk 17:14, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I would try this,but my skill with Destruction is pitiful,so I might not be able to cast a rune.--Skyrimplayer 17:35, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm the guy who posted it originally. I'll be more specific about what I did. I cast a rune in front of Farengar's bed in Dragonsreach, hoping that I could kill him when he went to bed. However, I waited several hours and he did not go to sleep, so I left. When I came back (some time later, I think) he was sleeping, had not triggered the rune, and the rune was gone. When I ineracted with him he woke up, got out of bed and triggered the rune. He then attacked me but no guards came to his assistance and I killed him. --Anil 17:57, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Was this a one-off occurrence, or can you recreate it with Farengar again, or another NPC? It may have just been a glitch. It should be reproducible before we add it to the article. --Xyzzy^Talk 00:47, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Further research with the same character. Someone else should test this as well, but it does not appear to be a real glitch. The rune disappearing seems to be some sort of a texture loading glitch, where the game loads the visual for the rune underneath the floor, as it doesn't do that on all surfaces. I was able to get one activation on Danica Pure-Spring and attack her a second time in front of a guard, but I couldn't kill her because she is essential at this point in the game. All the other times only work if I'm not seen when the rune is activated, but that is nothing new. The game will not treat the attacks as assault, but if you kill someone in front of others, you still get a murder bounty.--Anil 20:03, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Looks like I'm going to be training,so I can check this.--Skyrimplayer 20:08, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Augmented Flames/Frost/Shock Bug

I have Aug flames and frost at 2 but in my magic menu the spells flame and frostbite do not match. Flames reporting 27 damage while frostbite is showing 12. I can't seem to find any information online about this, can anyone confirm? I'm on PS3 if that is of any importance.67.160.149.107 10:37, 26 November 2012 (GMT)

Do you have the illusion perk Aspect of Terror? Because Fire spells all have an illusion part cause of the fire perk that makes enemies flee, and as a result gain ~10pts of damage to their stats. Lord Eydvar ^{Talk|Contribs} 10:38, 26 November 2012 (GMT)

Yes in fact I do. But shouldn't flames do 22 damage as a result?67.160.149.107 10:46, 26 November 2012 (GMT)

Yeah idk the 27, if you have the Word meditation thing from Paarthurnax that boosts fire it might be doing that, but it shouldn't usually show in the stats unless they patched it to do that. Lord Eydvar ^{Talk|Contribs} 10:48, 26 November 2012 (GMT)

I do not have the meditation from Paarthurnax. Perhaps it is a bug as I had thought then and I will have to deal with it. I'll have to see if how sparks turns out once I've gotten the perks for shock. 67.160.149.107 10:51, 26 November 2012 (GMT)

(←) I got the 27 figured out. The +10 from that illusion perk is to BASE Damage. Meaning you're +50% from Aug Flames is off of 18 NOT 8. 18+50%=27. Lord Eydvar ^{Talk|Contribs} 11:02, 26 November 2012 (GMT)

Yes, that is why my Fireball does 75 damage and Incinerate does 105 damage.

86.25.220.28

Disintegrate percentage

The page says 15%, which is not symmetrical with the other perks. Plus, the effect magnitude on spells is 200 pts for 1 sec, which suggests 20% (think .1% per point in the effect magnitude). Anyone confirm or deny the 15%? (Thelee (talk) 21:49, 3 December 2012 (GMT))

If you look up a spell like lightning bolt (I guess you did that), you see the "Disintegrate: Health" Effect. Editing it, we learn it uses the effect PerkDisintegrateFFAimed. Looking that up, there is a condition "Health < 0.15" which is the 15%. Similar for other spells. --Alfwyn (talk) 22:22, 3 December 2012 (GMT)

Increase in the Power of Enchantments

Tonight, I played through the same short section of Dragonborn with two different characters- one, a pure magicka-based character whose main focus is Destruction (lvl 100) and who has no investment in the Two-Handed Weapons skill, and very little in the Enchantment skill; and the other, a Two-Handed, Heavy-Armor Character with full investments in both of those skills AND in Enchanting, but next to none in Destruction. When I discovered the item "Champions Cudgel" in Fort Frostmoth, I saw two different levels of the same enchantment based on the two characters. The Destruction-based character received a copy of the enchantment that displayed a staggering 70 points of damage for each element, while the Weapons-based character only saw a meager 26. Am I correct to assume that the Destruction skill also influences the power of item enchantments? I can't find anything about that on the wiki but it seems very obvious, for I've noticed some curiously powerful weapon enchantments on a character that doesn't have any weapon or Enchanting perks. Lucipet (talk) 07:59, 8 December 2012 (GMT)

Sorry, I realized how it works- the Augmented Flames, Shock, and Freeze perks not only increase the strength of spells in their respective elemental categories, but also increase any enchantments of the same type. This should be added to the article, at least after it's been confirmed (though it makes a lot of sense so I doubt this was a glitch). Lucipet (talk) 08:09, 8 December 2012 (GMT)

Wall Spells and XP?

How does a 'Wall Spell' give Experience? (Wall of Flames, for instance). Is experience given when the spell is cast and hits an acceptable target, and if so, which one? There are technically two targets: Your enemy, and THE GROUND. As you may know, wall spells can't be cast unless there is a floor/wall to cast it against. So, which is it? Piffinatour (talk) 01:36, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

When you hit enemies, similar to Flames, Frostbite, Spark. You notice the burst of flames appears under your target when you cast Flames, Firebolt, Incinerate,... at them? The "Wall" are technically those burst, it just use different visual effects, last longer and deals more damage. So if you can't gain EXP by pointing Flames at the ground, you can't with Wall spells either. 117.5.17.225 08:48, 22 February 2013 (GMT)

spell casting speed

i think we should add that most spells have a casting speed of 1 somewhere (or 3 for ritual spells). It'd be useful for someone comparing damage to weapons and bows 50.99.131.242 18:48, 24 February 2013 (GMT)

omg is true :\

jumping up and down on a forge does slightly slightly increase destruction skill. I feel so insulted something this stupid is true. Can we remove that note anyways since it's just plain stupid and very impractical? Dawn (talk) 17:54, 2 March 2013 (GMT)

It's a quirk of the game that many players would be interested in knowing, so I say no. We can't just remove info because we dislike it. Vely^►t►e 20:23, 2 March 2013 (GMT)

And I just tried it. It's obscenely slow and hardly reliable for a few free levels in destruction. But if someone wants to mash "Y" (And the PC variant) for a few hours, let them.-Zydrate[][] 00:38, 6 April 2013 (GMT)

The perk Impact may not work for some enemies?

I was in the quest Ill Met by Moonlight and I was eagar to stop Sinding from killing any hunter. But it is impossible to do so as the perk Impact stops working. I have troubles defeating him even I let that idea of saving the hunters go. Is anyone also experiencing this? -Joshua.yathin.yu (talk) 18:30, 27 March 2013 (GMT)

I haven't experienced this, but if it occurs with enemies other than Sinding, it might be worth noting on this page instead of Sinding's. I checked the CSList entry for Sinding and for the Impact perk, but didn't see anything that would explain why it didn't affect him. --Xyzzy ^Talk 03:36, 6 April 2013 (GMT)

If I recall correctly, when in werewolf form you do not suffer from knockback, perhaps Sinding also benefits from this ability?75.76.58.46 20:54, 7 May 2013 (GMT)

You may be right. According to CSList, werewolves are immune to paralysis, which may include staggering. I'm not sure about that, however, because dragons are also immune to paralysis, and you can definitely stagger them with the impact perk. --Xyzzy ^Talk 00:19, 8 May 2013 (GMT)

Disintegrate Spell: Dragons

In a fight with a Dragon, the Disintegrate spell procc'd and turned the dragon to ashes. Leaving no ashes to be looted, but still granting me a soul to absorb.

I suppose this is where I decide to stop using shock damage on dragons, and use the appropriate fire/frost magic if I want to loot the bones/scales for money. — Unsigned comment by 174.92.84.14 (talk) at 19:03 on 29 March 2013‎

Magic damage in legendary difficulty?

Since high end magic spells only do about 100 damage would this not gimp magic users into doing next to nothing damage if on legendary you only do 25% damage and since you can level infinitly normal enimies could have up to 1-2k health? If bows, one handed and 2 handed weapons can do anywere from 100-500 damage should they not increase damage from destruction spells so its even? — Unsigned comment by 109.149.79.243 (talk) at 22:58 on 5 April 2013

It does seem to reduce destructions viability at very high levels, but Bethesda have deemed that they do not need to raise the damage output yet. Weapons will only do a maximum of less than 200 without exploiting the restoration glitch btw. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 23:03, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

It can easily go way higher without drinking single fortify restoration potion with right gear and perks which almost every warrior skill oriented player has. Ofc. In some situations you need help of enchanting and alchemy but as far as I know both are legit skills. Only daggers can't reach more than 200 because Fortify One-handed enchants doesn't seem to work on them John3 (talk) 12:47, 12 April 2013 (GMT)

Patch info - moved from article

With Patch 1.9 This is no longer the case. With Patch 1.9 XP is based on the damage done by the spell. Magicka efficient spells net the most experience so spells like Flames, Frostbite and Sparks garner more XP then higher spells like Incenerate or Icy Spear.

I'm moving this here because I checked the fixes listed on the Patch page and didn't see this one. Also, it doesn't really make sense. If XP gain is based on damage dealt, more powerful spells that inflict greater damage would garner more XP than lower power, magicka-efficient spells. --Xyzzy ^Talk 01:19, 14 May 2013 (GMT)