Tamriel talk:Orc

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[edit] Orsimer or Orc?

This page has been recently moved from Tamriel:Orc to Tamriel:Orsimer to reflect the fact, I beleive, that the Orcs were once called Orsimer. Even though this was the ancient name for the Orcs, they are currently known as Orcs, with very little reference to the ancient name in the games (at least in Morrowind:Morrowind). Therefore, I would suggest moving this page back to Tamriel:Orc to make a clear connection between the games and this wiki. --DrPhoton 11:04, 2 July 2006 (EDT)

There is a redirect, and the first sentence states that Orsimer are more commonly known as Orc, so it seems like anyone looking for information on Orcs should end up here and not be confused. Although in Oblivion:Oblivion as well Orc is used almost exclusively, I don't see any harm in having this page called Orsimer.--Nephele 11:22, 2 July 2006 (EDT)

Given the lack of response, except Nephele's, who doesn't have a strong opinion, I have decided to move this page back to Tamriel:Orc. As stated above, this move was done to reflect the fact that this race is almost exclusively known as Orc throughout the games, and the term Orsimer only appears in books, such as The True Nature of Orcs. --DrPhoton 08:17, 13 July 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Orc back to Orsimer

I would like to change the article heading of "Orc" back to "Orsimer". This would better suit their placement in the category of "Mer", and is - in fact - their proper name. As we refer to every other species of elf under their proper name, I see no reason to refrain from doing so in this case. Any objections? -- Booyah boy 01:02, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

This page has already been renamed, then reversed once, as documented in the above discussion and on the page's history. I really think a strong consensus is needed before the page gets renamed yet again. I don't personally have a strong preference either way, I just don't want to see the page renamed every month. --Nephele 02:11, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

Aye, I looked over the history ere posting my comments (hence the "back to Orsimer"), and still emphatically support a page name of Tamriel:Orsimer. The title of Orsimer is the proper name, the term "Orc" being that which other races call them (for instance, the Dwemer are often called Dwarves, however, the correct name remains Dwemer, hence the article is entitled such; in another example, the currency of the Third Empire may colloquially be known as a drake, and yet were an article written concerning such it would be given the proper name of septim). Ultimately, it is a matter not of preference, but of accuracy. -- Booyah boy 04:20, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

Though I see why you wnat to change this back to Orsimer, I repeat again that this race is known almost exclusively as Orc in the game, except for a couple of books where the word Orsimer appears. So I think this article should remain as it is, so that people can find it easily (they'll be looking for Orc, not Orsimer) and for consistency with the rest of the wiki (where they are referred to as Orcs). --DrPhoton 06:49, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

I will admit that the title of "Orc" is that most commonly used in-game, however, so too (to repeat my analogy) is the currency referred to as "drakes" and "gold", yet it remains (properly) a "septim". Insofar as the ability to locate the article is concerned, I see no reason a redirect (or whatever else is necessary) could not be instituted to lead those searching for "orc" to the Orsimer page; furthermore, reading the first line of the current article would dispel any confusion as to the articles premise, and the article I am preparing to overwrite such also includes the information that the "Orsimer" are commonly known as "Orcs". Coupled together, I cannot help but maintain that - for the sake of accuracy, if nothing else - the article ought to be entitled Tamriel:Orsimer. -- Booyah boy 07:09, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

My take on it is that "Orsimer" is a dead word. Nobody uses it anymore. Unlike "Altmer", "Bosmer", and "Dunmer", which are very much still in use (despite the increasing prevalence of "High Elf", "Wood Elf", and "Dark Elf"), Orcs are almost exclusively referred to as "Orcs", and every source that uses the term "Orsimer" is very old and out-dated. Likewise, "septims" are still commonly used, even if "drakes" or "gold" are more common. "Orsimer" is not. I can only think of a couple of books where the word is mentionned at all. Plus, it literally translates to "Pariah People", hardly a flattering term or a name to be proud of. It's almost an epithet, I'd think. Basically saying "you are the people who are shunned". No Orc would want to be thought of in that way. Like the 'N'-word. Not something you go around saying in public. --TheRealLurlock 09:40, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

My original reason for the naming of the page as Orsimer was for standardisation. Trying to have all races (and similar types of pages) use their original form was simply an attempt at creating a standard. Having a link from Orc (and similar pages having links from High Elf, etc) would continue the standard without causing any confusion. This wiki attempts to be an encyclopaedia, and as such the orginal form of a name should be the "main" one, with all other derivatives pointing back to it. What a word translates too is irrelevant, and I suspect that Orc elders would prefer to be known by their ancient and original race name of Orsimer. — Endareth^Talk 21:21, 3 December 2006 (EST)

"Plus, it literally translates to "Pariah People", hardly a flattering term or a name to be proud of. It's almost an epithet, I'd think. Basically saying "you are the people who are shunned". No Orc would want to be thought of in that way." - Old comment, I know, but - why not? They worship Malacath, after all. Badge of honour! -SFC

O comeon I didn't even know they were called orcs intell know muchless that they were mer just say they are mer and orismer on the article but not the title please. And there's probebly a reason poeple call them Orcs probly because Orismer is more of a curse of a name and calling them that risks you being assulted. Some dude

My vote is for the page to remain at 'Orc'. If it's standardisation we are talking about, in virtually all cases the standard name for something on this site is what it is called in the game(s). In this case, the games almost universally refer to this race as 'Orcs'.--Gaebrial 15:46, 25 October 2007 (EDT)

I think the fact that the debate had gone 10 months without being progressed indicates that keeping things as they are was already the preferred option. I would to suggest that our anonymous friend at 71.105.88.130 looks at dates before posting! I'd normally make a comment about the spelling too, but in this case I think it's too far gone for any help to make much of a difference. --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 05:20, 26 October 2007 (EDT)

You can carrect my spelling if you went to. some dude