Tes4Mod:Mod Ideas/Combat Improvements

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This article provides Combat Improvements ideas, as part of the Gameplay section of the Mod Ideas article.

Contents 1 Spell Realism 2 Armor Realism 3 Friendly Fire 4 Horseback Combat and Magic 5 Archery 6 Kick 7 More realistic swordplay 8 Spears and Javelins 9 Grappling hooks 10 Shield Bashing 11 Deadlocks 12 BlackJacking 13 Power Attack Realism 14 Bleeding 15 Location-specific damage 16 Dual Weapons and Stealing Weapons Mid-fight 17 Dagger stealth attacks 18 Better Hand-to-Hand 19 New Combat Techniques 20 High Strength with two handed weapons 21 Knock Unconscious

[edit] Spell Realism

If you attack an target with spell then each element has its own effects. If you attack someone with fire then it starts screaming, clomp and even try to make a suicide. With shock attacks the target starts shaking and this sort of stuff. Frost will freeze opponent but only high level Frost damage can do this, frost also has other effects like weakness and numbness. If you summon a companion, then low level opponents start scared of them. Burden will kick your opponents on ground higher level opponent the higher level of burden you need. Poisoning will create illusions of yourself to enemy that they attack your illusion instead of you + other minor effects. If you cast light on yourself, if the light is enough bright it will blind your opponent. And there should be new spell ,,powerforce this spell will blow your opponent away with all its equipment. It will not hurt them but if they hit something in their way, now that hurts your opponent badly + falling + it will throw its weapon and shield faaaaar away (this spell is best used in forests). And another spell called "Kamikaze of the Red Mountain this will create a ghost which can be killed by enemy very easily but if it gets to the target it will g o inside the target and destroys it on sight and automatically soultraps the soul. So what you guys think of it. And special staffs that capture spells , if spell is fired at you this staff can capture it and that staff has 1 use of that spell which it captured.

Another one- Prolonged shock on target (star wars-force lightning), and, if combined with telekinesis, can launch someone across the room (would be something along the lines of at least 50 destruction even for weaker spells)

• Great idea, except there is one problem; if you can do the spells, then can't your enemies do them too? I don't know if I want to be frozen or all my equipment blown away.

• The ideas of using the physics engine as a weapon is pretty cool. Say, by limiting it to Mysticism (it already has Telekinesis) and using the 'Ki' system of movement. Thus, you could learn: 'Ki Push' - Simply put, pushes the target away. The force is determined by the target's weight and the power of the spell. Damage occurs when the target hits something whilst in motion. 'Ki Pull' - The same as Ki Push, but draws the target towards you. Useful for getting magic users and archers up close and personal. 'Ki Projectile' - Much like Telekinesis, but somewhat more powerful, this allows the caster to pick up objects from the small (rocks, arrows) to the large (furniture, corpses) and hurl them at great speeds, essentially turning everything into a weapon. 'Ki Manipulation' - Possibly the most devastating Ki technique, this allows the caster to stop an NPC in their tracks, pick them up and do what they want with them, drop them from a great height, slam them into an available surface or toss them into a lava pit. Of course, these spells would be a continual drain on Magicka, and could only warrant about 20 seconds of use at a time, even for a high-level caster.

[edit] Armor Realism

In real medieval times, knights wore plate mail and under it they wore also chainmail and leather. So if mod where you could wear platemail, chainmail and leather would make game more realistic. Every armor has its vulnerability. Platemails vulnerability is arrows and spears, and it defends best against axes, swords and maces. Chainmails vulnerability is swords and axes, it defends best against maces, spears and arrows. Leathers vulnerability is axes, swords, maces and spears, its almost totally immune to arrows. If you wore all three, you'd practically be immune to weapons.

• Actually they made the shields a realistic size, if you were wearing iron all over your body would you like to carry a big block of it on one hand while swinging a heavy sharp object, i know i wouldn't, shields used by knights never were bigger then there torso because they learned how to use them.

I'd beg to differ. I'd also just like to define something first.

• Plate: Full plate armor - with either working metal joints, or no joints on certain parts. So so so many knights were killed with the thrust that comes up under the armpit , or approx. 1 inch above the voicebox, where there was a gap in the armor.
• Platemail: Full plate armor - with chainmail joints.
• Plate Armor (both plate and plate-mail): Platemail was effective against swords, axes, maces, polearms, and arrows. Exceptions being - warhammers (warhammers had a flat striking edge and a hooked spike on the reverse side, designed to puncture and thus remove or displace armor with a big YANK). Plate was vulnerable to needle-point arrows and crossbows. Spears and Pikes were most commonly deflected by plate armor. Poleaxes and some axes had the power to chop through some of the pieces of plate.

• to the comment above mine at first people wore chainmail which was resistant to stabbing so sword edges were sharpened more than the tips, with the development of platemail the tips of swords were sharpened to stab in between the plates so it depends on what kind of sword is used for sword resistance.

• Scale Armor: which personally I think should be in oblivion - Scale armor provided moderate defense against blunt blade axe and spear/pole weapons. Each hit would usually remove one or more of the small metal scales, and it could become quite costly and time consuming to repair. Scale's greatest attribute was arrow defense. An arrow fired from a relatively short distance, with a small arc would still puncture it - but arrows fired upon an area, rather than a target [British longbows spring to mind :)] often had a larger arc of fire and were far more often deflected by the little metal scales.
• Chainmail was effective against blunt weapons, but maces and suchlike could still normally break bones (against plain mail that is - cloth and leather padding worn underneath reduced a lot of the effect). Axes and swords could still chop through mail, although it was moderately harder. A hard sword thrust had no problems piercing mail. Arrows could pierce mail, as could crossbow bolts.
• Leather . . . well, leather. Cost effective, cheap and weak. Defended well against sword slashes and blunt weapon blows. Chops and thrusts from axes/swords/spears, PARTICULARLY ARROWS, etc still pierced it, no problems. Studded leather and hard/tanned leather provided additional defense.

I'm all for more armors - and giving them weaknesses seems very reasonable - but why make them in various layers? After all, I would expect the leather worn under plate armor to be very different than that worn normally. I'm not sure the weaknesses can be made so exactly, although I'm using a locational damage mod. It doesn't seem to work though, so I can't really judge. In any case, I don't really understand where the OP got the strengths and weaknesses though. The only place I remember which used a system similar to that was in Runescape...

• The Unlimited Wear mod allows characters to wear extra layers of clothing.
• Also, shouldn't shields be bigger? I'm pretty sure if you were a soldier in medieval times and your shield was half the size of your torso you'd be screwed most of the time.

[edit] Friendly Fire

Due to the poor AI of the NPCs and the general nature of the combat system, completely preventing friendly fire is more or less impossible. There should be a method of locking onto one specific target at a time and/or dealing damage in a more selective, discriminating fashion. As it is, an NPC yelling "I'm on your side!" and completely breaking immersion by starkly displaying the weakness of the AI is annoyingly impossible to avoid. This is not to say attacking allies should be impossible, as that choice definitely presents flexibility in the range of actions which can be performed within the game. Yet damaging allies when making every possible effort not to proves frustrating and even detrimental to the overall enjoyment of the game.

• One way to fix this (aside from improving the AI to steer clear of an axe-swinger with horrible aim, obviously) could be to add NPC commands to your spell list (put 'em under Illusion with the other control spells). Simple commands like "stay behind me", "attack this target", "secure the area", etc. could help a little with the AI's haphazardness.

[edit] Horseback Combat and Magic

Ability to use weaponry (including bows) and spells while mounted on a horse.

• Why have an armored horse if you don't have a lance? :) That was the first thing I thought of, literally two seconds after first getting on a horse.
• The reason that horse combat was not added into Oblivion is because Bethesda thought that it gives the player an unfair advantage, and would severely unbalance the game. Also, I think that Bethesda thought it would be stupid to add such an ability.
• A mod could be made that alowes only some weapons to be used on a horse and adds weapons like spears, curved slashing swords and short bowes with the same power as the normal bow. It sould not allow two-handed weapons, sheilds and blunt weapons.

[edit] Archery

Improved Archery and other minor things Where the idea started

• Realistic archery damage (to a point). I recall when I first started oblivion, I used to 'archer' a lot. I recall being chased by a scamp, I put 3 arrows into his torso, one into his upper thigh and I put a 5th arrow square through his eye (lucky shot :) and the little bugger was only on half health.
• Yeah, you should be able to kill someone or something if you shoot it in the heart, head, and stomach.
• there is a mod called Deadly Reflex, if you're lucky, and you hit your (humanoid) enemy in the torso, you will puncture his lung and he will die with a whole lot of blood spraying around

[edit] Kick

Ability to kick someone, like a rat, a mubcrab, or an NPC, or something, like a door.

• ...like kicking somebody in the balls? That would trigger an effect that makes the target drop to the ground stunned for over 2 hours and constantly take damage over time.
• in a mod called Deadly Reflex you can kick your enemies to the ground and then impale them

[edit] More realistic swordplay

Half the existing animations for sword fighting would break a real person's arm.

[edit] Spears and Javelins

It would be really nice to have throwable spears / javelins. They could work a little like bows. You equip the spear and you see yourself holding it vertically. Holding down the fire button makes you toss it up and catch it in an overhand hold, then pull it back so the point is sticking into your first-person view from the top right of the screen. Release and you throw it, then automatically equip another if you have more in your inventory. They could be recovered from dead enemies, probably with a better chance of recovery than arrows. I think the recovery would be worse because when the NPC falls backwards or whatever and the spear is facing the ground and hits first, it would probably break. Or maybe it could have a rope attached to the back part and you pull it back and use the same one.

• Having a rope attached to a javelin would make throwing it harder. Pulling on that javelin would only yank the body around. Also, if an NPC fell backward, one would expect him to land face up with the javelin in his front. Finally, javelins are made of solid wood, and would not break as easily. If, for some odd reason, they landed with the javelin haft facing toward the ground, it is most likely that it would push through the body. If you want a returning javelin, there could be an enchanted javelin that returns on hand. Its a good idea, but you're all having problems with how it would work.)
• There is a 'blunt' Staff animation that lets you thrust the staff, if create a spear, use the 'blunt' staff animations, just a tip for people who want to make a spear mod.
• There is an exsisting mod called spears of cyrodil

Additionally, instead of just throwing spears and javelins, you could just have a normal spear, with a 3 or so attack animations, 1 forward, 1 sideways, and 1 stationary power attack. But a backwards power attack would get you into the throwing mode, where you could aim the spear, and it it killed the enemy, it would knock them down and you could retrieve the spear.

[edit] Grappling hooks

I know it sounds silly but a grappling hook would be really good for a thief, maybe the ability to throw it would depend on strength or marksman. An arrow with a rope on might work and could stick to the bottom of a wooden balcony or something and the building could thus be robbed from above.

• what also might be quite fun to include is a chimney mod by whee - a rope could be used to climb down a chimney, you could get down without one but would be unable to escape that way when you're finished
• It'd be like Batman meets Santa!

• Maybe you could buy arrows (or just one) so you could shoot it and it would pull you to where it shot!

And if were talking about thieves, why not have a specialist in thievery who sells all of this?

• Thieves Arsenal adds rope arrows

[edit] Shield Bashing

In medieval fights, not only the sword was user as a weapon. You can use your shield as well to bash an opponent. This will make the enemy recoil for a moment. The effect should be more than just the standard recoil of a successful block. (An nice addition would be a spiked shield, which would not only make the opponent recoil, but also damage him.)

• At 75 in block you get a shield bash skill, but you don't control it.
• Deadly Reflex mod has a shield bash, amongst other things. [1]
• The Imperial Legion Shield is spiked, though I don't think this affects the Shield Bash perk.

[edit] Deadlocks

The change of winning a deadlock should be calculated by the factors 'Strength' and 'Fatigue'. The Strength attribute should help overpowering the opponent, but running low on fatigue will affect it greatly in the end. A successful deadlock will make the enemy fall to the ground. (no more fatigue)

• Deadlocks are VERY unrealistic. If you were truly in a deadlock, you would either stab him in the stomach with a dagger or sweep your sword across his quickly and slice into their body.

[edit] BlackJacking

The ability to blackjack opponents instead killing them would be nice if you're a thief char then you could take whatever of value they have on them

• Thieves' Arsenal includes this, along with a large range of handy thiefly arrows and some quests.

[edit] Power Attack Realism

Ok i thought this to be a good mod for people whilst looking through the other ideas. Anyway using the Crosshair you can use the power attacks more effectivly. Ex. a sideways power attack lvl. 50 disarms an opponent by chance but what if you aim the crosshair at the weapon whilst sidestepping for an automatic disarm. Another is, when you do a backwards power attack it knocks back an opponent at lvl. 75 blade or blunt have it so that when you aim the crosshair at their legs you'll knocker down everytime. Forward Power attack at lvl. 100 paralyzes when u aim at their cuirass

• maybe knock back more around the waist, being the center of gravity, instead of legs which probably just make them collapse

[edit] Bleeding

Red dots spurt out when you attack something, but shouldn't they actually bleed? It would be much more realistic that way, and maybe you could even die of blood loss.

[edit] Location-specific damage

Self-explanatory but probably would be difficult to implement. Blows to different body parts could have various effects depending on the weapon used and armor worn by the victim. For example, a hammer blow to a bare head could cause the victim to stagger punch-drunk for a while or even have a chance to paralyze, while a sword slash to an arm or hand could penalize the opponent's combat skill scores. Hitting the legs could cause a speed and agility penalty.

• Don't forget the archers. 1-2 hit kill headshots for most enemies (with heads) without needing the sneak bonus. Maybe also extra damage for shooting other vital organs. Make archery more useful and realistic.(see "Archery" above) By the way, a hammer to a helmeted head would probably stun an opponent (or break his neck). A hammer to a bare head as would be much worse (also depending on the type/size of hammer).

• TalkieToaster has created Locational Damage. It also has a few other extras to go along with the main mod.

[edit] Dual Weapons and Stealing Weapons Mid-fight

I think dual weapons would make a nice addition, Like 2 daggers, 2 shorts words, 1 longsword and 1 shortsword, etc. This would change the combat. Also, it would also be nice if you could disarm someone and steal their weapon. For example, you were fighting hand to hand and you successfully parried the enemy's sword attack (what I mean by this is that you can instantly steal their weapon without having to pick it up from the ground) Dual wielding would be better for a skill bonus(25, 50...bonus) for each weapon than the power attack. Say at 25 you can only have a dagger or a small mace or axe in your left hand, then at 100 you can dual wield any two weapons of that type(blade, blunt) regardless of weight

• Strength would probably have to play a factor in that too. And you could probably dual wield claymores with 100 strength and be a Master rank swordsman.

[edit] Dagger stealth attacks

Instant death if you sneak up and kill someone from behind with a dagger. This would give you a reason to use a dagger.

• This is addressed in the Stealth Overhaul mod to a certain extent. Daggers are made to be far more powerful for sneak-attacks.

I would like to see something less dramatic than instant death. Would it be possible to calculate the Weapon rating of a dagger with the Stealth skill instead of the Blade skill and the Speed attribute instead of the Strength attribute? That would make it possible to play assassins without having to worry about hitting enough with daggers or keeping strength up. Since you hardly make hits while playing assassin, these level up way to slow.

• in a mod called Deadly Reflex, you can attempt to slit an enemy's throath if you're behind him, results in instant kill, doesn't always succeed and succes chance is based on stealth and blade skills

[edit] Better Hand-to-Hand

This skill could be a much better alternative to the other combat skills if it wasn't so weak. The added chance of knockdown is good, but maybe throwing in some kind of grappling moves would even things out a little bit better. Another possibility that could be quite interesting is to incorporate kicks (such as the flesh atronarch from Shivering Isles), although there would obviously have to be some huge drawbacks to wearing heavy armor in this case. Also shouldn't khajiits have claws for a lesser power? They should be equivalent to a steel shortsword but have a really short range.

[edit] New Combat Techniques

The system of combat ability is a little unrealistic, isn't it? That you can only try and disarm opponents at a specific level of competence? What's more, the whole usage of your weaponry feels a little too one-dimensional. I'd love to see new techniques the player could learn, not through weapon skill, but through trainers (with stat prerequisites, of course). That way, combat would be much more intuitive and varied. For example:

• Dagger Techniques: Vital Stab (Agility 50): Allows the player to make a stationary power attack which causes a random amount of physical stat damage in addition to any other effects and damage. Silent Takedown (Sneak 75): A successful sneaking power attack now becomes a takedown, with the player stabbing the victim in the neck, like a grapple, causing continual damage at a drain of the player's fatigue. When the fatigue runs out, the hold is broken. There's also a chance the victim breaks the hold. Doesn't work against large or undead enemies. Dodge Attack (Block 50): Replacing blocking, the player has a chance to automatically dodge an attack and lash out in return. Otherwise, the player blocks as normal. Throw Blade (Marksman 25): Allows the player to throw any knives in their possession. Although heavier and less plentiful than arrows, daggers have the benefit of dealing melee' sneak damage of x6 instead of the ranged x3 bonus. Daggers are always retrievable, but are damaged normally. Blade Rush (Acrobatics 50): The player can make a forward power attack that, if successful, knocks the opponent to the floor, allowing the player to pin them down and stab them repeatedly. Once the player has their opponent pinned, they attack normally, costing double fatigue, but dealing double damage. If the opponent breaks the hold, the player is knocked back. Doesn't work against large enemies.
• One-Handed Blade Techniques: Fence (Agility 50): Allows the player to use the sword at its full length at the expense of defense and power, the player can now attack at a longer distance and stand a greater chance of getting through blocks. Parry (Endurance 50): The player can augment their blocking with their sword, reducing damage taken and spreading weapon fatigue between the two. Slap (Agility 50): With a deft sidestepping attack, the player can lash out with the flat of their sword, dealing little damage, but staggering their opponent. Run Through (Strength 75): With one powerful, thrusting, forward attack, the player can cause massive damage at the cost of fatigue to their weapon and a slow 'charge-up' time. Blade Flurry (Speed 50): Essentially, the player can channel their speed into their attacking prowess, increasing the speed of their attacks by 50%.
• One-Handed Blunt Techniques: Swat (Agility 50): Using their weapon at the right time, the player can knock arrows out of the air, negating damage completely. Concussion (Strength 50) A retreating power attack turns into a downward swing at their opponent's head. On impact, it causes silence or burden and damages willpower/intelligence/endurance. Does not work on undead. Kneecap (Agility 75) Increases the chance of attacks at the lower body of an opponent to cause speed damage or paralysis. War Beat (Personality 50): Using their weapon for a few seconds on the ground/shield, the player can begin a 'war chant' that has a chance of boosting their health and fatigue whilst temporarily draining their opponent's abilities. Does not work on the undead. Smash (Strength 75) Gives the player's standing power attack chance to disarm, damage or break their opponent's weaponry or armor.
• Polearm Techniques: Slap (Agility 50) As with the sword, this allows the player to make a weak sidestepping attack that staggers their opponent. Stonewall (Endurance 50): Turns the player's backwards power attack into a defensive stance, polearm braced against their body. Any enemy which attacks from the front automatically incurs damage. Enemies leaping or power attacking suffer increased damage. Impale (Strength 75): Allows the player to perform a very power standing power attack that causes a large amount of damage whilst sacrificing fatigue and weapon durability. Vault Attack (Acrobatics 75): In a staggering act of bravery, the player makes a running power attack that uses the polearm to vault into the air then slam the spear back down in a spectacular, powerful, if vulnerable attack. Whirlwind (Agility 75): A sideways power attack turns into a deadly whirlwind of steel as the player swings the spear around their head, striking everyone within range around them. Skewer (Strength 100): The player executes a powerful long-range stationary attack that damages multiple enemies at once in a straight line, with a 50% chance of being instantly fatal.
• Two-Handed Techniques: Power Through (Strength 50): With this, the player's power attacks become 50% less likely to be blocked successfully. Gut (Agility 50): Using this, attacks against the torso are more likely to knock down or paralyze opponents. Execute (Strength 75): Power attacks against paralyzed or floored opponents have a 75% chance of being instantly lethal. Roundabout Swing (Endurance 75): Turns a sideways power attack into a constant swing, swinging the weapon around at a drain of fatigue. The player can only mover slowly whilst performing this move, but deals damage to anything in range. Powerful Wield (Strength 100): Allows the player to use a two-handed weapon in one hand. Allows use of a shield.

[edit] High Strength with two handed weapons

With this certain races (Orcs and Nords) with very high (80+) strength would be able to wield some two handed weapons with one hand. Unrealistic, maybe, but its fitting of a race that claims to be strong and produce great warriors. As an alternative maybe a lesser power to go into a rage and get a strength bonus with an agility penalty.

• Orcs do have this power

[edit] Knock Unconscious

Personally I think it would be nice instead of killing someone (they probably will be useful later or something) just knock em out maybe have it wear you hit them after a certain amount of times depending on their race like a (hard-headed Nord) or a Bosmer and then edit the timer or something where they wake up maybe 60 game minutes later I think you would be able to do it the same way for essentials but when you got to a level 70 Hand To Hand you can do 1 move that knocks them unconscious instantly

What if you also made a reverse blade sword (Katana with the blade on "wrong" side)? I've been thinking about this for my own mod, but I can't at the moment. Maybe something like, time knocked out = blade skillX2 + Strength/2? Or something easier. Or, a staff (not the magic kind)?

• good idea. But there should be like a 40% chance of knocking them unconscious.

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