Tes4Mod talk:Major WIP Mods

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[edit] Added to Pages needing Cleanup

Most of the links in the page are to official thread forms, which as everyone has no doubt experianced, get removed after a while. Most of the links don't work, the page is hard to follow, mods are not all "Major Work In Progresses," some are small or compleate. This page should be reserved for mods which:
1. Do not have a relesed version, unless that released version is extremly lacking in features.
2. Add something amazingly vast to the game. A mod reconstructing all of Tamriel would count. A mod adding a quest or two should not.

--Dylnuge 09:21, 11 November 2006 (EST)


So, I would love to get an administrator's opinion on what the criteria should be for this page. There are many mods on this page that have released versions, or have a Beta version released, or add only a couple quests and some items. There are also many mods listed that do not have a valid link to any page. Which should remain and which should be removed? --GuildKnight 19:03, 6 March 2007 (EST)
I agree with Dylnuge above. There are loads of completed mods such as Oscuros Overhaul. These shiouldnt be on this page. His criteria above seems sensible though. I'm dont want to do any edits, as like GuildKnight i reckon an admin should define once and for all what should be on this page. That my thinknig at least :-). -Lordsword 8 11:56, 28 April 2007 (EDT)
This section should almost certainly undergo a massive edit, because many of these mods have died, and others are just plain out of date. The problem is that there are just too many mods to edit at one time, and we need firm criteria as to what should be on here. Many of these could also have their own page. --Seniosh 17:26, 28 May 2007 (EST)

FYI, admins aren't needed to or even expected to authorize decisions about the content or layout of articles. Editorial decisions are made by the site's editors, and admins really have no more authority in making editorial decisions than any other editors. In this particular case, I'm guessing that no admins have chimed in because nobody has an opinion. I know for myself I don't use mods and I know next to nothing about what should be on this page, so I don't feel like I can say anything meaningful about what should or should not be done. The editors who are knowledgeable about the article's contents should make the decisions, not an admin who is completely unfamiliar with the topic.

It sounds to me like everyone who has contributed to this discussion is in agreement about some of the key things that need to be done and a consensus has already been reached. That's all that is needed before starting to revamp the page. --NepheleTalk 17:59, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

    The question is how to sift through the massive amount of mods on the page?

I'd say this: Criteria should be large mods without a functional release By large, I'd say something city-size or larger, something that aims to add an entire guild with around 10 or more quest plotline, mods that are just enormous, such as quarl's texture pack (of course that's not very WIP), or are technically challanging, like Saiden's dragon mount.

Then a functional release would be a release that accomplishes most of the goals of the mod. For example, a mod that aims to add a landmass and cities is WIP if any of the large cities is incomplete, large planned quests are incomplete, ect. An animation mod would be WIP, if not all animations are added, or they don't work. A texture pack would still be working on textures, ect. Use common sense i guess.

Then the last question is how to do it? There's like 50 mods on this page, half of which are dead. I think a good way to do it would be to make a new page, and gradually research the mods on this page and transfer the ones that are still alive, or have new info on them

Eh, these are just ideas really. If anyone has anything to dispute/add for the criteria, say it. just wanted to set down an idea of what the criteria could be, so that people can start editing this meaningfully.

And what do you guys think of just keeping this page for reference and making a new page? I think it's the only way a group of people could do it without a major unified effort... too intimidating otherwise. Again, just ideas Seniosh 20:25 pm 21 May 2007 (EST)

Sure Seniosh, good idea. Also IMHO, a new page should be available, maybe more involving 3 categories:
  • WIP for "vast" mods;
  • WIP for "medium sized" mods (involving 1-2-3 interior cells with more than one room, or 1-2-3 exterior cells which have been heavilly modified, + 2-5 quests);
  • WIP for small mods (adding an armour/weapon set, adding some apparatus/functionality like a teleporter or an optimization guyzmo as the Streamline or the quest award leveler mods, adding/modifyiong 1-2 quests, adding some new texture/mesh, ...).
Of course, categorization could be much more relevant than the later which is just for illustrative purposes. --HawkFest 19:47, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
I just removed AWS. It is finished, and so should not be here. Also, Underlife (sewer expansion) has been dead for millions of years. I think it should be moved to the inactive page. I don't want to create a REL section for AWS, as it has now been superceeded, so I will just leave things as they are.--WrinklyNinja 02:39, 7 June 2008 (EDT)


[edit] Plans for Page

So what's happening to this page? Is there a new version (several separate versions) or something?

For example, Ruined-Tail's Tale, Story Driven NPC Companion MOD shouldn't be in Cities/Islands category, it's a companion/quest mod; besides, not a WIP anymore. Even The Butcher that is mentioned in RTT description is already a released mod. But what should I do with it? Do I just remove Ruined-Tail's Tale from the list? Do I leave it but update the link and the version/date? Or should I create a separate page for it as it's a released mod? (Not sure about that, but Seniosh said "Many of these could also have their own page" above...)

Sorry if that question was answered before.

Arilita 09:14, 6 January 2008 (EST)

Hmmmm... I guess that everybody is waiting for somebody to take the initiative...lol. My best bet Arilita would be for you to go ahead an do it, even if it would be solely for listing your own mods. But you know what? After a search I've noticed that there is no page for listing released mods, while there is one for Work In Progress mod. Thus my opinion would be for you to create a new category (as there is one for WIP mods called Category:Oblivion-WIP Mods). Then after I'm sure that we'll see the page get filled like magic... Well ok, I'll create a new category with what I feel to be relevant as a structure from what is mentioned above, and I'll get back here when it is done...
--HawkFest 17:00, 10 January 2008 (EST)
This page clearly needs cleaning up and would benefit greatly from someone who is interested in tackling the page. But I'm not sure where you're going with all of the categories that you're creating, HawkFest. I don't think UESP needs to have pages describing all the mods that exist for Oblivion, in particular given that there are other sites that are already covering that need. To realistically fill all the categories that you've created would require the creation of hundreds, if not thousands, of new articles: why go to all that effort just to copy information that is already provided elsewhere?
I can't necessarily provide too much feedback on what to do with this existing article, because it is not an article which I use or to which I contribute. I don't really know what the purpose originally was behind creating it. However, it seems that there have been plenty of suggestions already (i.e., cleaning out descriptions of dead mods or completed mods, recategorizing mods, etc) from people who are interested in the page. As you say it's just a matter of someone being willing to take the initiative. But I'd prefer to see that initiative focussed on following through with what's already been suggested, rather than embarking on extensive new projects that have not been subject to any community discussion.
Finally, I'm not too sure what you mean when you say that there already is a "category" for WIP mods. There is no such category; the link you provided is simply a link to this same article. Categories on a wiki are lists such as Category:Oblivion-Quests: automatically generated pages that contain a list of all the articles related to that category (note, for example, that if you edit the category, none of the articles shown in the category appear on the page: those are all added automatically by the wiki software. Also note that the category contains a list of link to articles, not just a list of information). The WIP page, i.e., the one you access when you click "oblivion" at the top of this page, is a standard article, created by manually adding all of the information shown on the page. --NepheleTalk 18:59, 10 January 2008 (EST)
OK, one final thought (hopefully it will be final this time!). I just wanted to make sure even realized that there is an existing wiki for documenting Oblivion mods, namely Oblivion Mod Wiki. There's no need for two wikis to try to document the same information; it's best for the community as a whole if all of the effort is put into assembling all of the useful information in a single place. Since both are open-format wikis, there's no reason to preferentially move or duplicate content that already exists on one site. If you'd like to work on documenting existing mods I'd therefore suggest putting the effort into improving Oblivion Mod Wiki and simply making sure that links on UESP exist wherever appropriate so that readers can find the information on that wiki. --NepheleTalk 19:24, 10 January 2008 (EST)

(The following three rounds of comments were moved here from User talk:HawkFest in order to keep all of the discussion in a single place where other editors can more easily find it)

Hi, thanks for your concern. Actually, I am building a new category structure for released mods, not for the WIP page. Then after maybe that it could be some kind of a model for structuring a new WIP section... The thing is that since there is no page nor category for released mods (only for WIP mods), I thought that building a new approach by structuring categories instead of a single whole page could be submitted as some kind of a model for the WIP section. IMHO, the advantages are:
  • each mod can have its own space (a wiki page), giving the opportunity for the author to provide whatever relevant information related to his/her mod (spoilers, external links for downloading, illustration, etc.), and the current template used for official quests or mods could be used for that matter as a starter. The same could apply for WIP mods, like milestone, to do list, or work plans if other moders are required/participating in its development;
  • each wiki page related to a mod MUST provide a category "call" within its underlying code, so that it gets categorized with a link to the parent category at the bottom of the page. Thus, accessing the main category page for released mods(or WIP mods) would provide a single entry point to all released mods around (or WIP mods).
  • each wiki page related to a mod can be categorized in more than one category. This happens for a majority of mods, e.g. a companion mod that is also a quest mod or a building/home mod, or providing new items/game play functionalities, etc.
Of course, the structure I am building is currently a draft and would need feedbacks/inputs. What do you think of this idea?
--HawkFest 19:35, 10 January 2008 (EST)
This is a discussion that would probably be more useful at Tes4Mod Talk:Major WIP Mods or, if you'd prefer not to have it there because you're interested in all mods (not just WIP mods), then perhaps at the Community Portal. One reason I point back to the WIP mods page is that I feel like I've already responded to your points at Tes4Mod Talk:Major WIP Mods, so followup there (keeping the entire interchange in one place) would be easier for everyone. In particular, there already is a wiki that provides all of this information (already categorized and everything); why should UESP duplicate that? --NepheleTalk 19:50, 10 January 2008 (EST)
AH!... I wasn't aware that another wiki existed for this sole matter, thanks for underlining this. The thing is that I found it illogic that a section exists for WIP mods but not for released mods... Ok, I will redo the whole stuff specifically for the WIP section and continue this discussion on its talk page, hoping that someone will follow-up with my proposal. Now, is there a way to rename those categories I've created? Or should they be submitted for deletion (how, what's the tag), obliging me to create new pages for WIP categorization? Thanks and regards, --HawkFest 19:59, 10 January 2008 (EST)

(End of moved discussion)

Actually, I'd be more inclined to say that even what's already on this page is probably more appropriate at Oblivion Mod Wiki. For example, replace each mod mentioned on this page with a simple link to that mod's entry at Oblivion Mod Wiki (if necessary making sure that all of the information listed here is already provided on their site). I think combining all of the information at a single wiki (making it possible, for example, for WIP mods to simply change one line on their wiki page when they go from WIP status to released) makes more sense than trying to expand UESP to support this type of information. That's my opinion, at least. --NepheleTalk 20:14, 10 January 2008 (EST)
I agree. At the beginning I was wondering about why there was a section for WIP mods but not for realeased mods, as I though that it must have been an initiative to provide a centralized access to spoilers/etc related not only to official Bethesda stuff, but also to 3rd party mods... But since there's another wiki specific to mod creations (which I wasn't aware of), imho as your say this whole section should be moved on this other wiki, and its related categories deleted. More over, a clear and easily accessible link to that other wiki should be provided on UESP (maybe on the left side menu?). Good call.
--HawkFest 21:01, 10 January 2008 (EST)
More likely, such a link would go onto General:Links somewhere. (In fact it already exists on Oblivion:Links, but these two pages are planned to be merged ultimately.) Singling out any one other site for being featured on the left sidebar is really unfair to all the other sites, which is why we have a separate page (or at this point two) specifically for that. --TheRealLurlock Talk 23:26, 10 January 2008 (EST)

[edit] Future of the Page - restart

Arilita has been doing some good work updating this page recently but it's becoming clear that it's actually a gallery of links that don't work any more rather than anything useful. The previous discussion seemed to indicate that people were in favour of discontinuing this page and directing people to the Oblivion Mods Wiki instead. Is this still the favoured solution, and if so, should this page just be deleted? –Rpeh•T•C•E• 05:49, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

I'm njot so sure that redirecting to oblivionmodwiki is a good idea, for one thing the site seems down half the time making this page easier to access, also that is one of the site you know who keeps meesing up so its constantly being disrupted Volanaro 05:59, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
My recent glimpse over at Oblivionmodwiki confirms that there are some serious problems right now with vandalism on that site. However, I'm not sure that the vandalism in and of itself should be a reason to avoid adding legitimate content to the site. The best cure for vandalism is to have an active editing community there, which will only happen if the site is actively being used and promoted as the primary source for information about mods. And modders who are actively involved in creating new mods (i.e., modders with WIP mods) seem like a group who would have a strong inherent self-interest in building the site. So moving this information there seems like a fundamentally good move for both UESP and Oblivionmodwiki.
Furthermore, on Oblvionmodwiki, this page could essentially be turned into a category, that would dynamically update to always list any mods that are described by their creators as WIPs. Such a change would fix the long-term problems of maintaining the page.
Still, it does seem like it would be good to first get in touch with Vhaeos and/or Galahaut and confirm what their plans are for the site. I'll go ahead and get in contact with them one way or another... --NepheleTalk 00:01, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Well, actually my plan was like that:
  • Check the links on the page, mark broken ones
  • For the mods without any working links, search on Bethsoft's forums
    • In case of finding, post a new link
    • Otherwise label such mods somewhat and start a discussion about what to do with them
  • Find out what mods are already released
    • Request approvement for removing them from the page
    • Remove their description
  • For WIP mods - find out whether there's work on them or not
    • Start discussion as to what to do with inactive/suspended ones (remove their description, create a new page for them, something else...)
    • Do as decided in the discussion
That would shorten the page a great deal, I believe, and also make it more informative. But - to be honest - I only really care about one mod on that page, so if you decide to remove that page at all I'll just re-create the content I need on OblivionModWiki. Especially if their admin can add WIP tag to a mod template. ~ Arilita 06:03, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
The main Problem I have is that the site seems to be down the majority of the time I simply consider it to be too unreliable to use a a resource here. Volanaro 05:47, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
This, alas, is a fair point. I haven't been able to access their site since I made the original post, which rather scuppers the idea... Okay, the current page really isn't helping anybody and the first alternative seems to be a non-starter. I suppose another option would be to create a whole list of mods in the Tes4Mod space in the style of the Oblivion Mod Wiki, but I'm not sure that's something I'd want to try - it'll be a huge task and distract from the main focus of the site. What do you all think? –Rpeh•T•C•E• 06:08, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
I will proceed as I planned - relevant information helps anyway, whatever that page will become. ~ Arilita 12:34, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
If you were to go on the modwiki now you would see a message saying that they're moving to a new host, maybe it will be a bit more reliable afterwards. Volanaro 05:22, 25 March 2008 (EDT)
After another visit to modwiki, it seems like the site is up and running, and for the first time I managed to browse and edit a few pages without the site going down, peraps it's a possibiity after all! Volanaro 14:31, 25 March 2008 (EDT)
I've had a few problems with DNS - my ISP's DNS is still pointing to the old IP but it works fine if I add 66.187.102.26 to my hosts file. I'm sure that'll fix itself over the next few days. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 15:12, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Cleanup request

Request permission to remove the descriptions of the following mods:

The reasons:

  • The mods have been released long time ago; they get updated, but they are rather well-supported than actually WIP.
  • The mods are well-known and most of them (marked [*]) are featured on Must Have Mods page.
  • The descriptions and version infos are obsolete and may mislead the players, but aren't worth updating for the reasons above.

~ Arilita 05:36, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

Sounds good to me! –Rpeh•T•C•E• 06:05, 2 April 2008 (EDT)
Done. :] ~ Arilita 08:24, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Namespace

I just realized that this page is in the Oblivion namespace, but it really seems like it belongs in the Tes4Mod namespace. And the same would appear to be true for pages linked to from this article, e.g. Oblivion:Split Infinity. The pages are about mods, rather than vanilla Oblivion. And especially given that the pages are about incomplete mods, the only reason to discuss them is to discuss mod creation; there is no way to discuss how to play the game with incomplete mods.

But before moving the pages and updating all the link, I wanted to first make sure that I'm not overlooking some obvious reason for this article's current placement in the Oblivion namespace. Any thoughts? --NepheleTalk 12:04, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

My best bet would be that the page was created too long ago. Maybe before the Tes4Mod namespace was made. Or the page was created by someone who didn't know about the said namespace. In other words: personally I see no obstacles to moving it and related pages. ~ Arilita 12:26, 2 April 2008 (EDT)
Can't think of any reason it should stay here. I'd stupidly assumed it was for some long-decided reason that I wasn't aware of but the move makes a lot of sense to me. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 14:19, 2 April 2008 (EDT)
Should I stop my editions to the page until it's moved? ~ Arilita 14:52, 4 April 2008 (EDT)
No that's okay - everything will move at once so there's no problem. I'll probably to it this weekend unless anybody raises an objection before then. –Rpeh•T•C•E•

[edit] Discontinued/suspended/abandoned mods

I count mods as:

  • discontinued - if the development was officially stopped before releasing any working versions, and the team is not planning to return to it;
  • suspended - if the development was frozen for some reason before releasing any working versions, but the team supposed to return to development when the circumstances are right;
  • abandonned - if there are no news on a WIP (inactive) for more than a year, without announcements like the two above.

(If such a mod has a released version, I'll count it in the number of REL ones)

I planned to create a subpage for those and move them, but can't think of an appropriate name for the page. Any suggestions? ~ Arilita 07:38, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

Inactive mods? "Abandoned" only has two "n"s, incidentally. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 07:41, 5 April 2008 (EDT)
English is not my native language. ;P
'Inactive mods' sounds suitable. If I don't have a better idea by Monday, I'll use this. Thanks for your comments. :] ~ Arilita 10:24, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Under watch?

There's a category of WIPs that I don't understand: Tes4Mod:Major WIP Mods#Under Watch. Only one mod there. I haven't tried to alter its description or move anywhere yet, but it has no working links, nor any time clues in the information.

I wonder what was that category for? Or was it just copied from the original thread "as is". ~ Arilita 04:26, 8 April 2008 (EDT)

It's been around for ages (since this). I have no idea what it's for. Remove it if you want! –Rpeh•T•C•E• 05:25, 8 April 2008 (EDT)
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