UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard

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The administrator noticeboard is where we discuss and coordinate administrative tasks on the wiki. Although this page is intended for administrators, all users are encouraged to participate in discussions.

Before starting a discussion here, please review the list of other community pages below, as your question or suggestion may be more appropriate on another page.

Other pages for community-wide or general questions include:

  • Policies and Guidelines — A category listing of policies and guidelines, which each have individual pages; their talk pages are the best place to discuss these policies (see Active Discussions for links to active policy discussions).
  • Vandalism — Discussions regarding vandalism and spam.
  • Community Portal — The main discussion forum used for community-wide discussions about UESP's operations, policies, design, and improvement.
  • Reference Desk — This is the best place for questions about how to play Elder Scrolls games.
  • Community Portal/Templates — Technical issues regarding templates and related issues can be discussed on this page.

Specific requests can be made on these pages:

  • Bot Requests — This page can be used to request that one of the wiki's bots take on a task.
  • Image Requests — You can request specific images for articles here.
  • Creation Kit Information Requests — You can request specific Creation Kit information for articles here.
  • New Page Requests — You can request a new page here if you were prevented from creating the page yourself.
  • Purge Requests — If you are having problems viewing an article on UESP, the page may need to be purged. New purge requests can be made here.

In addition, past discussions from the Administrator Noticeboard can be found at:

  • AN Archives — Lists all of the past discussions from the Administrator Noticeboard, including major discussions and chronological archives.
  • Past Administrative Requests — A list of all previous requests for administrator and other administrative requests.

[edit] Etiquette Policy Clarification - "Grounds for blocking"

I've edited the Etiquette page to clarify that "grounds for blocking" does not mean "will be blocked". This has been a frequent misunderstanding in the past, and I thought it was time it was fixed. Since it's a policy page, and a topic that's just been brought up, I felt I should mention it. Robin Hood  (talk) 22:47, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

[edit] The Silencer's Block Appeal

Since Silencer is a big fan of following policy and procedure, I am linking his appeal on the AN. I doubt this is needed, but it is in line with policy. ~ Ad intellige (talk) 00:04, 6 August 2014 (GMT)

[edit] Group Add/Remove Rights

Administrators already have the ability to add and remove people from several groups, including all the different types of patrollers, as well as blockers. I'd like to propose that they also have the ability to add or remove Map Users, Cartographers (map editors), and Abuse Filter editors, which are relatively benign permissions. Dave would then only need to be contacted to change the various administrative and bot rights. Does anyone have any concerns with this? I've already asked Dave, and he's fine with it, but I figured I should put it to the community as well. Robin Hood  (talk) 17:48, 6 August 2014 (GMT)

I personally think this makes sense and have no issue with it. It seems like a tad too much to have to go to Dave to add/remove, like you said, benign positions. •WoahBro►talk 17:54, 6 August 2014 (GMT)
I'm good with this. We don't have to change these user groups very often, but when we do it's usually pretty straightforward. eshetalk 18:10, 6 August 2014 (GMT)
It's a little soon compared to the normal approval period, but I had stuff to do on all our servers that indirectly related to this, so I made this change at the same time. Administrators should now have a bunch more groups they can add people to or remove them from. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:40, 6 August 2014 (GMT)

[edit] Suspected vandals

For some reason these IPs keep editing the skyrim credits page. User: and User: I'm not sure, but I feel like they might need to get banned or something. I think they might be the same person on different IPs, but I can't know for sure. Me and a few other editors have undone multiple times. Can an admin find out for sure? Lorenut (talk) 08:08, 7 August 2014 (GMT)

I've protected the page. I'm not going to do more right now, cause it is like 3 am and I can't focus all that well at the moment. I don't want to go accidentally blocking the wrong people. Hopefully the page protection takes care of it. Someone else can block those two, but if they are changing their IP intentionally, the page protection will stop them from editing that page. Jeancey (talk) 09:15, 7 August 2014 (GMT)
Thank you! I've been doing my best to hold down the fort (so to speak) till someone could do something about it. Lorenut (talk) 09:19, 7 August 2014 (GMT)
Okay, both have been blocked for a week. I can't decide if it's a bot or not, so hopefully this will take care of it. Thanks, guys! eshetalk 12:33, 7 August 2014 (GMT)
You're welcomeLorenut (talk) 12:52, 7 August 2014 (GMT)

[edit] Proposed Deletions

Just a note to the other admins that I'm the one who proposed all the older Proposed Deletions, so I can't delete them. Can someone else give them a look when they have a moment? Thanks! Robin Hood  (talk) 02:53, 8 August 2014 (GMT)

I knew there was something I forgot to do today! I'm about to head to bed, actually, but I will look over these in the morning if someone else doesn't get them first. Thanks for the reminder! eshetalk 02:59, 8 August 2014 (GMT)

[edit] Block Messages

Per the request of a couple of admins, I've reverted the Block messages to their previous, customizable versions. What's more, I spotted a new option with the InputBox extension, so now they'll auto-fill in the title and text for the block message. The one minor difference is that the text in the input box itself will no longer say the user/IP's name, but just the word "Blocked". I can't imagine that that ever got changed anyway. (See MediaWiki:Blockipsuccesstext.)

One question: the various blocked message boxes are very inconsistent with whether they use —~~~~ or just ~~~~. Do people have a preference whether the dash is automatic or not? And if we keep the dash, do you want an em dash (—), en-dash (–), or double regular dashes (--) like the signature button does? Robin Hood  (talk) 02:49, 11 August 2014 (GMT)

My preference is two regular dashes, as I've been doing it for years. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 02:59, 11 August 2014 (GMT)
Including the dashes in the template messages is a massive headache. I use an em-dash in my signature and "--—" looks terribly silly. If people want to use dashes, it's easy to change in your preferences, so I think keeping it as ~~~~ is the most convenient for everyone. The only time I see this being a problem is for people who make use of the signature button, which adds the "--". —Legoless (talk) 15:23, 12 August 2014 (GMT)
I have the same issue as Legoless, but figured it wasn't a big deal now that we can customize the message again. Anybody else wanna weigh in? Robin Hood  (talk) 16:35, 12 August 2014 (GMT)
Same as Legoless as well. — ABCface 20:26, 12 August 2014 (GMT)
Forgot about this till yesterday. Em dashes have been removed now. I noticed afterwards that that's also consistent with every other message at Messages. Robin Hood  (talk) 05:00, 4 September 2014 (GMT)

[edit] Legoless de-admin request

Legoless (talk+ contribs edit count logs email)

In my humble opinion, Legoless is unfit to be an administrator. He has consistently showed an out-of-touchness with the workings of the wiki, that ill-becomes an administrator, but much more serious than that, he deliberately lied to sway peoples opinions in the recent events around my warning and block.

Firstly, this comment saying "Multiple admins have contacted you privately to listen to your side of the story." is the main focus of the complaint. It implies that I had an opportunity to defend myself and refused, when I was given no such opportunity because no admins contacted me at all. It also goes against the tone of the emails I received after the block (which was some time after this post) which implies that the admins were waiting for me to contact them with my defense (a frankly ridiculous notion unless I am to guess which admins were involved).

Secondly, this comment quoting the wikipedia policy page with "Lesser personal attacks often result in a warning" is a deliberate misquotation of the policy page, avoiding whole tracts of policy on how to deal with a personal attack and taking the summation at the end of the page as the basis of the warning, despite the policy's underlying concept of seeking a non-administrative solution (especially in first-time cases), and that we have our own policy on attacks which is incompatible anyway. My point here is twofold; one, if you do not understand a policy do not accuse someone of breaking it, and two, do not misquote policies to enforce an action. Both of these actions are unacceptable from anyone, much less an administrator who should know the rules before supporting administrative action. Also within that post is the comment "Unless you are arguing for a block instead..." which is quite a provocative statement, as following my reply that had policy been implemented properly I would have been, I did get a block (which was over the top in length, and wasn't a replacement for the warning).

Lastly in connection to the warning, this post comments that "This isn't the first time The Silencer has been abrasive towards other editors". While that may certainly be the opinion of some people, its the first I've heard of it, having never been approached in public or private about being abrasive on the wiki. So in terms of the warning, this is the first offence, and an administrator should know that before saying otherwise. Another comment there about "common etiquette should be of paramount importance" can be left for another post about the value of factual information (the content if my original post for which I was warned).

Moving on to some examples that show a lack of wiki-knowledge. This one is (assuming good faith) a lack of knowledge that plural headers are a standard across the wiki, no namespace or section is exempt. Icons have been standard for around 18 months at this point, using this template (which has no other use but for the way it was used). Copyright is a serious issue, and suggesting a wiki that takes images from the web as the source of an image is as bad as suggesting google search is a source. These editing examples are of particular importance in establishing that Legoless had no place being involved in the administrative action taken against me as an involved admin, as on all three occasions it fell to me to explain how an admin was wrong and chastise him for suggesting copyright was a trivial issue. Without a reply on any of the three occasions I have to assume he had no issue for being shown to be wrong, but with these three edits coming a month before the warning, and an insinuation of being passive-aggressive in past posts, it certainly leaves space for the accusation of being biased. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 23:03, 12 August 2014 (GMT)

  • Oppose: This feels completely like a witchhunt and nothing else. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 23:15, 12 August 2014 (GMT)
    • Comment: I prefer to think of it as holding him responsible for his actions. Have you nothing to say in regard the lies he told or do you find that acceptable? Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 23:20, 12 August 2014 (GMT)
  • Comment: The main issue here that involves a detriment to the wiki is the bottom three. Any action for the others would be punitive, not protective. Those three, while valid concerns, are not grounds for removal of rights. I'll wait to support or oppose, though, until Legoless responds. Jeancey (talk) 23:23, 12 August 2014 (GMT)
  • Comment: (edit conflict × 3) To offhandedly address address a couple of these:
  • Both AKB and RobinHood implied that they had contacted you following the warning you received. If AKB did not, in fact, contact you via email, then I admit I was wrong on that point. Claiming that I maliciously and purposefully lied about it is unfounded.
  • I was semi-active on the wiki since December 2012 due to various personal constraints, so I was not aware of the icon issue. If it was truly such a long-standing policy, it's curious that it was only being implemented on some pages in the last month, and not even in a standardised fashion (see this).
  • Aside from contributing to the discussions following your warning and removing your patroller rights per your own request, I did not take any administrative action towards you. A clear consensus was reached among the admins, and it would be poor form for me not to support it due to my own "bias" when it comes to your sour attitude.
  • Edit: As for the copyright issue, I chose not to respond due to your overly domineering and aggressive response, not because I believed myself to be in the wrong. As it turned out, the user image in question was simply removed, but I stand by my point that trying to apply copyright law to an image macro is ridiculous.
Frankly I find this de-admin request to be a petty attempt at payback for the administrative action towards The Silencer in the past month. However, I have no problem leaving it stand, as I have full faith in the community. —Legoless (talk) 23:25, 12 August 2014 (GMT)
  • Comment: To clarify in my regard, I said I have talked to the Silencer privately in the past, it was confusingly worded so it is completely understandable that Lego thought I was currently speaking to him about the conflict at the time. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 23:27, 12 August 2014 (GMT)
Your 'apology' is not accepted. To base such a statement that had huge implications on nothing more than guesswork is just as bad as outright lying, because you did not know the situation and should not have commented on it. You commenting on the discussion as an admin is taking part in it by association, your words as an administrator carry weight in a discussion requesting administrative action. My request is based your lying and deliberately misquoting policy. It is not acceptable to make statements as an administrator in situations you do not understand, using policy you don't understand, and as such you should not be allowed to do so again (until you do understand your position, at which point you can reapply for admin). AKB, you had not commented on the topic before Legoless made that statement. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 23:40, 12 August 2014 (GMT)
(edit conflict) AKB's comment was made in private. Please don't add hypocrisy by misquoting me and continuing to accuse me of lying, it's not constructive. —Legoless (talk) 23:45, 12 August 2014 (GMT)
Please address the second lie and misquoted policy accusations before derailing this post any further. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 23:48, 12 August 2014 (GMT)
  • Oppose: In my honest opinion I feel like this is just a way for Silencer to get payback. With all the issues with Silencer the last few weeks it brings into question the real motive for this request. While some of those are legitimate claims, like Jeancey said they are not grounds for removing admin rights. Lorenut (talk) 23:42, 12 August 2014 (GMT)
  • Comment: Contrary to some peoples opinions my aim was not revenge but exposure. True the three links are involved with the 'discussion' about my warning, but had he made these anywhere else I would still have called him out on it. I cannot force the admins to take any action, but now they cannot deny the claims were brought to their attention. As seems to be the way of things, it is who made the post that is the main focus here (seriously, the first response), ignoring the serious claims in favour of counter-claiming some sort of 'revenge' and attempting to stop any sort of reasoned debate. I cannot force any sort of punishment on Legoless, that is up to the community, who should by now know what kind of person they are supporting. If you decide to leave him as an administrator, you can't complain if he does it again (which he's already done by again disparaging the seriousness of copyright). Simply put, if he hadn't lied, what would I have to complain about? Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 01:37, 13 August 2014 (GMT)
  • Oppose: I don't see any malicious intent, lack of knowledge, or really much of anything. I see several incredibly minor mistakes, if that. The only reason why I would consider supporting this would be an actual problem that is legitimately causing harm to the site. I just cannot believe these issues could cause major harm, if any, to this site. I know you're going to disagree, but I think all of the issues brought up are, like was previously said, nothing but a witchhunt. Silencer, I stayed out of all of the discussions over the last few weeks. I thought then, and still think now, that things did not have to get as far as they did. The fact that they're getting to this level is just utterly unnecessary. To wrap things up, we do not need this kind of drama here. Period. I know it's happening/has happened on another similar site and I do not want it here. •WoahBro►talk 02:00, 13 August 2014 (GMT)
  • Oppose: Many of the points above are based on misunderstandings or minor mistakes. These things happen from time to time and there's really no point to belabouring them. To my mind, there is nothing in this request that warrants de-adminship. Robin Hood  (talk) 02:04, 13 August 2014 (GMT)
  • Comment: "This is not a productive area of discussion." - Henry Kissinger's head, Futurama. Silencer, I think how you were treated was patently ridiculous. I think the community tends to overreact sometimes in matters of politeness. It's the internet, people; grow a thick skin or go offline. You're a great editor. But so is Legoless. So let's put all this in our rearview mirror and get back to what matters. Insignificant RevisionsThreatsEvidence 02:40, 13 August 2014 (GMT)
  • Oppose: Lorenut took the words right out of my mouth. The only person twisting words and lying here is YOU, Silencer. If your first action after your ban (a ban that YOU pushed for when we were content to give you a warning-see my comments on the appeal on your talk page) is to try and stir up drama for no reason, you're not in the right spot. Go to Encyclopedia Dramatica if you want to stir up drama, not here. Zul se onikaanLaan tinvaak 12:26, 13 August 2014 (GMT)
  • Comment: I wasn't going to comment at all, in the hope that this would fizzle out and we could, as ME puts it, get back to what matters. And I agree completely with everything else ME says above. However, I would like to suggest that people stop accusing others of lying. Lying is deliberately telling falsehoods. I see no lies whatsoever on the part of Silencer, just statements which others might disagree with, coupled with a bunch of inflammatory comments from all sides. I also see no deliberate lies on the part of Legoless, just a misunderstanding (regarding contact by admins) and a misinterpretation (the quote from Wikipedia, which is accurately quoted, but perhaps taken out of context). --Enodoc (talk) 13:21, 13 August 2014 (GMT)
  • Comment: Bullying other editors and slinging accusations against admins is never appropriate or justified, and while "growing thick skin" is undoubtedly good advice both for the internet and in meatspace, it fails to hold water as a defense of the aforementioned behavior. I do agree that we should all just move on, and indeed most of us have been willing to do so for the last month. There's no point drudging up more pointless squabbles over this one issue. Zul se onikaanLaan tinvaak 15:01, 13 August 2014 (GMT)
  • Comment: "Slinging accusations" is entirely justified with proof, they are not immune to scrutiny or from answering for their actions. Again, if there were no lies there would be no justification for calling for any action to be taken. You yourself are hardly immune to scrutiny, having twisted my words on more than one occasion (proof can be provided for anyone interested). I see only two people who have commented on the lies and misquoting so far, with far more scrutiny being placed on the editing issues (which are not enough on their own which is why they are examples). When you suspect an admin of telling lies against you, then you'll know how easily you can 'move on', until then you are simply preventing an admins actions being looked at for no other reason than you don't want to bother with it. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 17:47, 13 August 2014 (GMT)
Comment: Silencer the problem is that none of the legitimate evidence is enough to remove an administrators rights. As for your first couple pieces of evidence. AKB said above " I said I have talked to the Silencer privately in the past, it was confusingly worded so it is completely understandable that Lego thought I was currently speaking to him about the conflict at the time" so I think that removes your first piece of evidence. Now onto the "misquotation" I don't feel like it's a misquotation. I looked up the policy and I feel it was used under correct circumstances. Let's move on, yes this may be the first time you've been talked with about the way you speak to people, but I have noticed a lot of times where you have been rude to other editors. Once again with this request being so close to your blocking it calls into question your true motive. Lorenut (talk) 22:15, 13 August 2014 (GMT)

CLOSED. Consensus: OPPOSE. --Krusty (talk) 22:42, 20 August 2014 (GMT)

[edit] Vandal


Will someone deal with this vandal already. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 23:50, 24 August 2014 (GMT)

Done. —Legoless (talk) 00:09, 25 August 2014 (GMT)

[edit] Block needed

Special:Contributions/ (spambot) --Holomay (talk) 08:53, 26 August 2014 (GMT)

... and now it has moved on to Special:Contributions/ --Holomay (talk) 09:23, 26 August 2014 (GMT)
I've done temporary blocks for both IP addresses, it's been a while since I've used my blocking privileges but there didn't seem to be any others on to take care of it so hopefully I didn't mess it up. When an admin comes online, they can deal with it further as needed. — ABCface 13:34, 26 August 2014 (GMT)
Re-blocked for 1 year. Robin Hood  (talk) 14:58, 26 August 2014 (GMT)
Thanks RH! And thanks also for the added note to the Block Notifications page... it was a nice reminder of what I'd forgotten to do! ;) — ABCface 15:54, 26 August 2014 (GMT)
LOL...I figured you'd forgotten, but then I thought: Why bother? The point is for admins to know about temporary blocks and this does just as well as adding it to the table. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:25, 26 August 2014 (GMT)

() Xanax should probably go in the filters (its already on the spam blacklist). Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 02:16, 27 August 2014 (GMT)

I meant to look at that. Thanks for the reminder! I'm amazed we didn't have that there already. Robin Hood  (talk) 03:34, 27 August 2014 (GMT)

[edit] UESPWiki:General_Disclaimer question

I got bored and was reading the legalese -- yes, I read the legalese for fun sometimes -- on my MacBook while Oblivion downloaded from Steam on another system and this particular line caught my eye and I have a question about it that strikes me as rather important and ought to be addressed, should this in fact be an issue and not a misinterpretation on my part. This is definitely something that Daveh or a legalese expert should give input on (with any edit ultimately being made ideally by Daveh himself, because it's his site at the end of the day.

First paragraph, second sentence... "The UESP is an entirely non-profit site and currently maintains no monetary value."

I am not a legalese expert, but as it stands, Dave Humphrey is technically an employee of UESP, which implies that he's drawing his salary, either in part or in whole, from the operation of the UESP domain. What does the term "non-profit" mean in terms of websites, how does this term relate to the operation of the site in terms of Daveh's "employment", and what amendments, if any, should be made to the disclaimer page and any pages where this is information is applicable? -damon  talkcontribs 01:31, 4 September 2014 (GMT)

Non-profits often (most if not all of the large ones) employ their administrators and some of the staff. A non-profit simply means that the organization uses any surplus revenue to further its goals rather than paying out to investors or to the owner's pockets. Dave does this by using any excess to buy additional server space or bandwidth and other things like that. TLDR; non-profit doesn't mean you can't pay a salaried employee. Jeancey (talk) 01:37, 4 September 2014 (GMT)
Yes, the difference between a nonprofit and a for profit organization is that all profit goes towards the service, ultimately. It we started selling stock and handing out dividends, then we'd have to amend that, but as it is, I believe we fully meet the criteria still. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 03:41, 4 September 2014 (GMT)

[edit] Request for user account name change

I've had my user name, Voraxith, for over two years now, and if it's not too much trouble, I would like to request that it be changed to Grimnir, as that is the name of my main character in Skyrim, and I've developed a bit of a presence on Facebook using that name. I checked the list of registered user names, and I did not find the name Grimnir there. Thank you for your time and consideration. Voraxith (talk) 23:17, 8 September 2014 (GMT)

There is a user GrimNir, but they haven't post``ed anything since 2007. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 23:25, 8 September 2014 (GMT)
Ah. Well then to avoid confusion and possible conflict should that user ever return to the site, might I request Grimnir OneEye then, as that is my Xbox Live account name. Voraxith (talk) 23:29, 8 September 2014 (GMT)
Done! Robin Hood  (talk) 00:32, 9 September 2014 (GMT)
Thank you! Grimnir OneEye (talk) 00:58, 9 September 2014 (GMT)

[edit] Proposed Deletion (Images)

We've had Proposed Deletion (Images) as a separate category from Proposed Deletion for years now. Personally, I don't find it particularly helpful. Yes, you can see the pretty little thumbnails, but you lose the ability to see at a glance when it was deleted. The latter is much more useful to me in a deletion category than the former. How do other admins feel? Would anybody object if I removed that coding from {{Proposeddeletion}} and just let images sort with everything else, like we do for speedy deletions? Robin Hood  (talk) 01:33, 11 September 2014 (GMT)

If there are no objections before then, I'll implement this change tomorrow. Robin Hood  (talk) 00:12, 22 September 2014 (GMT)

[edit] Block Needed (2)

This ip has been spamming talk pages all morning. Block please. --AN|L (talk) 13:35, 23 September 2014 (GMT)

Temp. blocked for now, until an admin gets on to deal with it. — ABCface 13:55, 23 September 2014 (GMT)
Also, someone should take a look at User:Hunny. It doesn't appear to be a spambot, but the only contribution made was creating their userpage that looked rather spammy. I didn't really know what to do, so I just blanked the page. •WoahBro►talk 15:18, 23 September 2014 (GMT)
This IP and this IP both need blocks (AKB already got them). Seeing as they are very near the same IP blocked above earlier today, I think a range block is needed. •WoahBro►talk 02:41, 24 September 2014 (GMT)

[edit] Block Needed (3)

this ip needs blocking as well Lorenut (talk) 15:32, 23 September 2014 (GMT)

I issued a warning for this, as I'm on the fence about whether it's truly spam or just nonsense. The pattern has continued after the warning, so could we please get a block in place? The ip is reverting my reverts as well. Zul se onikaanLaan tinvaak 15:57, 23 September 2014 (GMT)

[edit] Nonsense Bot

Currently we seem to be getting a bit of traffic from a Ukranian nonsense bot. Most of the current addresses reside within the and range, so a block could currently be performed there if we get much more noise from those addresses, although I would recommend against doing so due to the combined size of the ranges. That range block would block over 100k addresses, with the block range being the built in maximum that Mediawiki will allow you to block. Furthermore, a few of the other addresses come from outside of those ranges, so it won't even necessarily be effective. Further thoughts are welcome, but waiting it out may be the best option right now. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 20:00, 24 September 2014 (GMT)

I've added "valium" and "adderall" to the abuse filter words list, which should take care of most of them. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:54, 24 September 2014 (GMT)
I'm quite regularly online within a timeframe that's sparsely populated - morning until noon CET. Some of the recent bot attacks happened during that time, and vandalism will likely keep happening around the clock, so if no one minds, I'd like to apply for blockuser rights. --Holomay (talk) 08:39, 25 September 2014 (GMT)
I've granted you the requested rights. As a reminder to all patrollers, a simple request for blocker rights is required for you to get them. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 11:36, 25 September 2014 (GMT)
A couple of people suggested on my talk page that I should request for blocker rights, so I guess this is me requesting blocker rights. •WoahBro►talk 11:59, 25 September 2014 (GMT)
Alright, I've given you the rights as well. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 13:01, 25 September 2014 (GMT)

[edit] My VIUD Project

If you were wondering where I've disappeared to lately, I've been knee deep in my VIUD project (Virtually Indestructible USB Drive, http://www.viud.net) of trying to create the world's toughest USB drive. After 2 years of design and testing I think I'm finally on track to get a KickStarter campaign going for it this month. Now, I'd love to use the UESP to my advantage in promoting the VIUD a bit, specifically in terms of a main page news article (now and when the KS is opened) as well as the site's social media but since it is not ES related I wanted to run it by the rest of the site admins/editors for feedback.

Note that I'm perfectly fine if the consensus is "no"...I'm totally not going to accidentally reset anyone's password...;)

Forgot to mention that if you'd like to see a few videos of me check out the VIUD's YouTube channel. -- Daveh (talk) 21:40, 2 October 2014 (GMT)

I can see ways to wrangle a mention of it on the social media, but not on the main wiki. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 21:45, 2 October 2014 (GMT)
I'd have no problem with it being on your user page, since almost anything is fair game there, but otherwise, I'd say it should stay off the wiki, since it's not significantly game-related. I suppose having it randomly appear as an ad like any other could work, but you wouldn't want to cut into the ad revenue significantly, I assume, so there's that to think about as well. Robin Hood  (talk) 22:24, 2 October 2014 (GMT)
I have to agree with Robin on this one. I think it would be better suited on your user page since it is pretty much for anything about you. Plus like you said Daveh it's not ES related and probably shouldn't be on any page outside of your user page. I don't know how you could use UESP's twitter (or any other social site we have), but if you can find a way then go for it. Lorenut (talk) 23:34, 2 October 2014 (GMT)
Unretired long enough to challenge Dave on the password resets - and because your VIUD FB posts are cool ;) In all seriousness, it's not strictly TES-related, so it would be out of place to advertise on-site, but at the end of the day, you own the website, you pay the bills, and it's your choice to share the project with your built-in advertising base if you chose to do so. -damon  talkcontribs 23:44, 2 October 2014 (GMT)

() I'd say I'm fine with this, since no one would likely have questioned it if you didn't ask. It wouldn't be the first off-subject news piece we'd have hosted either (Zenimax acquiring id, a new Beth podcast, Oscar nominations for voice actors that were used for the game even though the nomination wasn't for their work on the game, an announcement of Bethesda's anniversary). Plus, I'd like to have a news piece this year that was not related to ESO (something that has yet to happen!). --AKB Talk Cont Mail 00:05, 3 October 2014 (GMT)

I don't see any harm with mentioning it on the main page, it's not going to be in anyone's face if they aren't interested. We don't have a huge number of news items anyway, so it's not bumping anything important. --AN|L (talk) 01:21, 3 October 2014 (GMT)
It may not be TES-related, but it's related to the owner of the site. If written the right way, it could make sense to be on the main page ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 10:59, 3 October 2014 (GMT)
No worries...thanks for the feedback. I won't write anything myself then other than on my user page. -- Daveh (talk) 15:33, 3 October 2014 (GMT)

[edit] Warning / blocking

A little while ago, I warned an IP after it had added spam to a page. When Dwarfmp blocked the IP, he quite appropriately remarked that bots don't get warnings. After a short exchange on his talk page, he recommended to bring it up on the AN, which I'm doing here. I know that it is common practice not to warn spammers/bots before a block. The reason why I warned the IP after adding the speedy deletion template to the vandalized page was that I wanted to put myself in a position that allowed me to temporarily block the IP in case of continued spamming. I wanted to prevent excessive cluttering of the RC like in recent cases of bot attacks, and I was ready to put a temporary block on the IP right after its second spam edit - that's why I warned the IP. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I want to block a user or an IP without exceeding my authorities as a blocker, a warning has to be given before. The Blocking Policy states that "administrators have the authority to bypass one or more steps at their discretion". If blockers should also be allowed to bypass step 1 (warn) of the normal procedure, I think the policy needs to be reworded accordingly. --Holomay (talk) 05:28, 5 October 2014 (GMT)

I'd support rewording the policy to allow Blockers to block when it's reasonable to assume that it's a bot. Robin Hood  (talk) 08:30, 5 October 2014 (GMT)
Can I also request a change to the blocking reasons? The Spamming blocking reason specifically states spamming links to external sites, but 90% of the spam we get is simply text and not actual links (since those are blocked by the filter). Can we removing the part about links to external sites and just say that all spam is the reason for blocking? That covers any links that get through, and applies to the most common situations. Jeancey (talk) 19:16, 5 October 2014 (GMT)
As I've said on my page, spammers usually don't go on a spam spree, unless that is from different IPs. Though I would agree that in certain situations, blockers too should be able to just use their head and block straight away when necessary. As to Jeancey's concern, it says "link or other types", which covers both, I don't really feel like that's a problem. I actually wanted to have a different message for IPs than accounts, as most spam is actually done by IPs these days, and having to change the message manually is a drag ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 19:25, 5 October 2014 (GMT)
Actually, the block message says link or other types, the edit summary on the block itself simply says external links. That's what I am proposing the change for. The talk page message is fine. Jeancey (talk) 19:27, 5 October 2014 (GMT)
I just changed the dropdown. I've been thinking of that for a while, myself, but never got around to it (mostly because they give these pages the most arcane names which I can never remember and have to Google for). Robin Hood  (talk) 20:29, 5 October 2014 (GMT)
"In extreme cases Blockers may also use their discretion to bypass a warning and immediately block an editor/IP. Misuse of this exception may result in removal of the Blockers rights and a warning." Add that to the policy under the admin discretion. I never took notice of such restrictions when it came to spammers, but still waited for at least 3 edits to be made (but not made at the same time). Always be prepared to explain your actions though if you block. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 11:06, 6 October 2014 (GMT)

() Okay, since there are no objections to the change, I've gone ahead and made it, per Silencer's suggested wording. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:19, 13 October 2014 (GMT)

Whoops, that went faster than I expected. I thought that there'd be a few more comments after the little detour about the wording of the block message. I don’t want to object to the change to the blocking policy, but I’m afraid it might not be helpful in all scenarios. It’s fine in situations like the ones above (Block needed, Block needed (2), Block needed (3)): When blockers log on and find the RC clogged by an IP’s spam edits, with no admin around, they are faced with an extreme situation and can now immediately put a temp block on the IP. However, there’s the other scenario: A blocker logs on, and after a while there’s an IP’s first spam edit. There’s no way to tell when an admin will be around again. When does the situation become “extreme”? After the third spam edit by that IP, or the tenth? According to the old and the new version of the policy, I can warn the IP after the first spam edit, which allows me to block it after its second spam edit. That’s what I’d still rather do instead of sitting there and wait for the situation to become extreme. The sequence Spam 1 – Warning – Spam 2 – Temp Block is a clear and simple pattern, whereas “extreme situation” is an ambiguous definition.
If a warning for spammers should be avoided, I'd suggest to give blockusers the authority to put a temp block on them after their second spam edit. In many cases, an IP or a user that spams a second time will also continue spamming for a while. Please don't get me wrong: I am not trigger happy, and I am not in search for more power. I simply want blockers to be able to support admins and patrollers by dealing with spam in a time-saving, efficient and effective way, and being backed by an unambiguous policy. --Holomay (talk) 06:49, 16 October 2014 (GMT)
The wording allows for discretion, an arbitrary number doesn't work in this scenario. If someone thinks you acted inappropriately they'll let you know and ask you to explain your decision. For an example I would typically have only blocked after a third spam edit spaced far enough apart to know they were separate 'attempts' by the bot, as some bots have a modus operandi of 3 edits within 10 minutes (as our first abuse filter was made to thwart). Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 17:54, 16 October 2014 (GMT)

[edit] Account Creation Broken

A user came into chat to ask about an issue with account creation, and after checking on a few possible issues, and then consulting the account creation log, it appears that account creation is not possible as the Asirra extension does not seem to be working. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 23:38, 12 October 2014 (GMT)

Robin mentioned that on Jeancey's talk page, I thought he would have switched it back to the default captcha so people can still work on the site. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 23:59, 12 October 2014 (GMT)
I sent a message to Dave to see if he had a preference for what to do, but haven't heard back from him. It's Thanksgiving weekend here, so he may be away. In the absence of input, I'll go ahead and reset to the older Captcha for the time being. Sorry about not dealing with it before, but I was too out of it last night to deal with it and I wasn't even sure we still had the necessary info for the older Captcha in any event. I just found a copy of the old info, though, so I'll get to work on resetting it now. Be prepared for the possibility of more user creations and maybe a small uptick in spam, though I expect most of it will be caught by the abuse filter. Robin Hood  (talk) 03:26, 13 October 2014 (GMT)
Okay, it's done. Our mobile servers were actually still using the older method and had captchas for external links turned off (relying on the abuse filter to pick it up), so I made everything the same, following that standard. Let me know if there are any problems. Robin Hood  (talk) 03:50, 13 October 2014 (GMT)
That was a total bust. In the 14 hours since I made the change, our abuse filter took 1200 hits, where before, it averaged a few a day. (Why, oh why, did MS shut down Asirra?!?) I've switched to another Captcha method, QuestyCaptcha, which asks the user a randomized question. We'll see how that goes. Right now, I'm using a verbatim copy from a blog post, which has probably been cracked, but variations on that method can be used to customize it to our site and hopefully significantly reduce the spam once again. For now, I want to see how the existing one does, then, if necessary, I'll get to work on modifying it. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:07, 13 October 2014 (GMT)
A customized version of it has been running for 1.5 hours with no hits to our abuse log whatsoever, so I'm calling it good enough for the time being. If, at some point, a bot figures out how to solve the question reliably, or if people just find the current question style too confusing, we can always change it. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:08, 13 October 2014 (GMT)
Sounds interesting if you are suggesting it can be customised to have questions relevant to the site (ie Elder Scrolls based questions). Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 20:52, 13 October 2014 (GMT)
Yes, it could be, though it's recommended that we stick with answers that change, even with what's nominally the same question. Static questions/answers are easily remembered by bots, whereas something they have to create a special program for will generally be deemed "not worth it" except for insanely large sites like Wikipedia. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:17, 13 October 2014 (GMT)

[edit] Request for Adminship: Jeancey

Our Request for Adminship (RfA) process is based on Wikipedia's policy. An editor, when nominated, accepts and answers questions, which can be asked by any registered editor. Votes and comments can also be left by any registered editor. Daveh makes the call, based upon the community's consensus, after about a week.

Jeancey (talk+ contribs edit count logs email)

When ESO first came out, we appointed three patrollers as temporary administrators. Two of them have since become inactive, but Jeancey has stuck around and continued working tirelessly on the site. During the time he has been a temporary administrator, I think he's shown that he can use the tools appropriately and responsibly. He has good interpersonal skills and is always willing to discuss edits or give opinions on site policy. I believe he'll make an excellent full-time administrator.

I accept this nomination for Administrator :) Jeancey (talk) 22:02, 13 October 2014 (GMT)

[edit] Questions

Q1: What do you hope to accomplish as an administrator?

As administrator, I hope to continue what I have done as temporary administrator. Helping to maintain the consistency and quality of the site, especially in the namespaces that I have been most active in (Morrowind, ESO, and Lore). Given that Legoless is the only active administrator who plays ESO, and given the sheer volume of information still left to be added in that namespace, I believe that having another administrator who plays ESO would be beneficial.

Q2: What do you see as the UESP's main challenges in the near future?

I think that one of the main challenges for UESP in the near future is keeping the Online namespace accurate and up to date with the constant additions and tweaks that are present in an online game. That, coupled with the inability to save and redo specific quests make the middle areas of the game especially difficult to complete accurately. Also, when another single player game is released, we will essentially have two games that we have to complete namespaces for, as the Online namespace will (hopefully, if the game is doing well) be an ongoing work in progress.

Q3: How do you interpret the balance between enforcing policies and being innovative when policies prove to be problematic?

I believe that policies should be a guide to how to deal with issues, not always a 100% hard and fast rule. Just today, we have had a situation where our policy dictates that we shouldn't put a voice actor as voicing the character without official proof, but we have an anonymous user who says that he emailed the actor and they confirmed that they voiced the character. Since the actor voiced the same character type in Oblivion (Dremoras), and since they sound the exact same in Skyrim, it is likely that they did in fact voice them. I had proposed that we have a second user also email the actor to provide a second confirmation of that actor's role in Skyrim. This, while not precisely following the policy, provides for the information to be added with a reasonable amount of proof to its veracity. I think that this represents a good balance between enforcing the letter of the policy and following the intention of the policy.

Q4: What action will you take if you see another administrator perform an action that you completely disagree with? Do you believe it is ever necessary or permissible to revert the actions of another administrator?

I believe, as I have done in the past, that a single revert of anyone is acceptable, given what you believe is a clear reason for doing so is present. For instance, if it breaks the page or if the information added is clearly incorrect, and that you explain those reasons in the edit summary. If you are mistaken in this, I believe it is acceptable for the person reverted to revert you and then open a discussion either on the talk page of the page in question or on my own talk page detailing why they were correct in the first place. If the issue is much more complicated or contentious, I believe that you should always open a talk page discussion first before reverting the person. The reversion should only occur if there is a clear and unambiguous reason, not simply if you believe they are incorrect. One must have proof, rather than simply an opinion, for the reversion to occur. Hopefully that doesn't confuse anyone, or make anyone think I revert people out of hand. I also think that if I have had issue with a particular administrator (or any user really) in the recent past, the talk page discussion should happen, and I wouldn't revert them at all, as that would just create an additional problem unrelated to the edit in question.
Feel free to ask any additional or clarifying questions :) Jeancey (talk) 22:02, 13 October 2014 (GMT)

[edit] Votes

  • Support: As nominator. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:02, 13 October 2014 (GMT)
  • Support: Since I've joined the wiki in every interaction i've had with Jeancey he has been nothing but friendly to me. He has been a great contributor to the site and i think he would be a great addition to the admin ranks. Also while he was a temporary admin he showed no abuse of power and followed every guideline. Lorenut (talk) 21:11, 13 October 2014 (GMT)
  • Support: I agree with Lorenut; Jeancey has always been super friendly to me; in addition, he is knowledgeable and fair about anything and everything I can think of. I can't think of a single incident that detracts from Jeancey's stellar record here at UESP as long as I have been here. --likelolwhat talk lulzy to me 01:59, 14 October 2014 (GMT)
  • Support: Jeancey has been an excellent contributor since he has joined the site. He has made an astonishing number of contributions once he started editing, including creating the MWOP which has helped to improve an entire namespace and provide other editors with plenty of ways to contribute. He has also played a key role in getting the ESO pages to our high standards. Perhaps more importantly than all of this though, Jeancey is an excellent role model for how to interact with other contributors. All my interactions with him have been very pleasant, and his enthusiasm and dedication in working on the wiki will continue to greatly benefit the site down the road. Forfeit (talk) 04:10, 14 October 2014 (GMT)
  • Support: Jeancey has pretty much been performing admin-like duties for a while now, and is very familiar with the site. He's been tremendously helpful with adding or tweaking ESO content, which itself is no easy task. I can't think of any reason not to support. His sheer dedication to the upkeep of the wiki is impressive - its not often someone at Jeancey's level of activity is around to help out. Plus, having another active admin would be helpful. --Jimeee (talk) 11:54, 14 October 2014 (GMT)
  • Support: Jeancey is an absolute machine when it comes to contributions; in fact, he's above several bots in terms of edit count. And in all those edits I have personally have seen virtually nothing to find fault with, in terms of quality, scope, and friendliness. We did well to have him as an admin during ESO's launch, and I think it would only benefit the site to make it permanent. -- Hargrimm(T) 14:06, 14 October 2014 (GMT)
  • Support: Jeancey is very dedicated to the site, and like others have said, I have had only positive interactions with him. He's done a massive amount of work on the wiki and continues to do so, and he's already proven, with the temporary admin powers, that he can handle it. It would be a good thing for the site to have him as an admin. - Alarra (talk) 06:03, 15 October 2014 (GMT)
  • Support: Friendliness: 1Yes Expertise: 1Yes Enthusiasm: 1Yes Diligence: 1Yes Accuracy: 1Yes --Holomay (talk) 07:13, 16 October 2014 (GMT)
  • Support: I fully support Jeancey finally becoming a proper admin. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 07:21, 16 October 2014 (GMT)
  • Support: I can't think of anything more to say that hasn't already been said. After a great run of being a temp-admin for ESO's release, I think Jeancey would make a fine permanent admin. --Enodoc (talk) 08:08, 16 October 2014 (GMT)
  • Support: For all of the reasons listed above. Jeancey has basically been an admin without the actual powers for most of the time I've been here. I haven't the slightest clue why I'd not support this. •WoahBro►talk 12:28, 16 October 2014 (GMT)
  • Support: I don't think I can add anything, really ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 07:46, 17 October 2014 (GMT)

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