UESPWiki talk:Morrowind Map Design

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[edit] Coordination

I just posted a UESPWiki:Morrowind Map Design#new section on the article with some suggested guidelines that will hopefully make it easier to coordinate what we're doing with the map. One difference between the map and the wiki is that there is no type of history feature with the map: there is no way to undo changes, but even more importantly there's no way to see what's new on the map or what's been changed. Obviously, we're all used to relying on that capability on the wiki, so it's easy to feel blind without anything similar on the map. And we're also used to being able to flag wiki pages that need attention as a way for other editors to find problems and fix them.

So what I'm suggesting is basically that cartographers start using the SearchTags to add keywords on map markers that other editors may want to look at, for whatever reason. The two main keywords at this point are newloc for any new location (just so other editors can get an idea of what places have been added) and approx for locations without accurate X/Y/Z coordinates. Sound useful? Any suggestions? --NepheleTalk 22:22, 30 June 2008 (EDT)

Sounds like a very good way to add a trail and transparency to what has been done to the map. --Benould•T•C 23:53, 30 June 2008 (EDT)
One question - is somebody volunteering for the task of periodically removing all the "newloc" tags every once in a while? Because otherwise they're basically useless - every marker was new once. We'd almost need some sort of Patroller system for people to approve of new markers and then manually remove the tags so that we don't end up with everything marked as new. Unless there's some way to program these tags to go away automatically after a week or so, which I doubt would be worth the effort of coding. --TheRealLurlock Talk 00:44, 1 July 2008 (EDT)
As I said on the article, I can do periodic maintenance to clean up the newloc tags. In a couple of weeks, I'll clear up all of the ones that are there right now. I can do it with a single mysql command, so it's really not much effort. And I don't think the newloc tags should be patrolled... because we want everybody who is interested to be able to see them, not just the first person to refresh the map each day. --NepheleTalk 00:57, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Maplinks and location codes

I've started to implement maplinks {{Map Link|place=<place name>}} on quest pages that don't have obvious locations, eg. House of Troubles. However, these pages already have location codes for PC users. Should we keep the redundancy, or replaces all location codes with maplinks? A third solution is to add maplink parameters to the quest template, although I am partial to have the maplink in the text at the end of the location description, as it is in the example. I will hold off with implementing more until there is some feedback on how to proceed. --Benould•T•C 13:40, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

I think place links should only be put on quests where the initiator or target is in the middle of nowhere. In other words, if people want to know where, for instance, the Pudai Egg Mine is, they can click the link, look at the page and get the location from there rather than having a link on the quest page. For quests such as Lead the Pilgrim to Koal Cave, the quest page should have a link to their principal actor (Fonus Rathryon in this case) because they can be tricky to find.
While we're at it, I think the X,Y,Z coordinates should be taken off all the pages that they're currently on. They don't help XBox users, are purely for cheating with the console, look ugly, and are largely obsolete with the new map. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 15:03, 6 July 2008 (EDT)
I agree that X,Y,Z coordinates on pages now seem unnecessary. Anyone who can use the map will be able to find the location more easily based on the map's visual references than from coordinates -- both Xbox and PC players, rather than just PC players. Any PC players who really do want the coordinates can get them from the map (they're provided in the link info on the right-hand side, and in the popup).
In places where a link is needed in-text (e.g., for hard-to-find places) the Map Link seems like the best way to go. But in addition, I think it would be useful to find a way to incorporate overall quest links to the map, for any quests that have quest-related search tags on the map. In other words, given that we've added the ability to have a link like this, I think that link should be added to the site so that readers are aware of the capability, too. I think having such a link incorporated into the quest header somehow would be the most useful overall: find a consistent place where readers can always quickly and easily find the link. It wouldn't replace in-text links for more specific cases; it would just be an alternative. Perhaps adding a map link to the "Locations" section of the quest header would be the best way to do it?
Hmm, except now that I just went to check how that map link works, there are some coding tweaks that need to be done. I'd like to have quest-specific map links that make the old MQ maps truly obsolete: where you can see in a glance the various locations for that quest and where they all are in relation to one another. I'll try to find some time to fiddle with the code some more. --NepheleTalk 20:25, 9 July 2008 (EDT)
Having just created a template to replace these, I'm bringing this issue up again. I guess there isn't necessarily any reason to keep X,Y,Z coordinates for places which CAN be linked from the Map Link template, but for locations in the wilderness which have no markers on the map, this template could still be useful. (Unfortunately, not for Xbox users, but what can you do?) Unless we can find some way to send the numerical coordinates to the Google mapping software and center you on the exact coordinates without there being a marker already there - I know it's possible on Google Maps, you can search for any latitude and longitude without knowing beforehand what's there. Can that feature be used on our map as well? (It might require running a little math on the numbers to make them line up, but it apparently is possible to do basic arithmetic in a wiki template, though I've yet to attempt it.) Or should we instead endeavor to place a map marker at each of these locations that we can link to explicitly instead? --TheRealLurlock Talk 14:39, 6 January 2009 (EST)
I think the existing Map Link template does the job given X and Y coords: {{Map Link|x=58675|y=-92545|ns=Morrowind}} (map) for the Hlaalu Hortator example you gave, for instance (the ns param is only necessary because we're on a non-MW space here). I'm not keen to see the x,y,z pos codes given such prominent status - as my comment above indicates - but if people want them kept then your new template is definitely the way to go, as long as map links can be worked in too. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 15:19, 6 January 2009 (EST)
I've converted the template so that it now takes the X and Y values separately, which makes them transferable into the Map Link template. The "map" parameter now may be unnecessary, since it will automatically generate a link to that location even without the location name, but I left it in just in case there's something I didn't take into account. I'm also not sure about the necessity of the "Z" coordinate - does't the game automatically place you at whatever height is appropriate when you use this command? Or is there a chance that leaving it out may end up with people accidentally teleporting themselves miles in the air and then dropping to their deaths? The coordinates are still necessary if you plan to use the console to teleport to a given location. ("COE" isn't accurate enough in many cases.) Maybe it'd be better if we used a smaller font on the coords? Especially if this template is going to be more widely used (say, if we decided to add the coords to all location pages or something). --TheRealLurlock Talk 16:41, 6 January 2009 (EST)
The point is that the location on the map should be enough without having to give people a cheat code. Whilst we had no mechanism for directing people to a location the cheats were, arguably, required: now we have the map they're undoubtedly unnecessary. Simple map links should be all that is required to direct people to a location, unless we want to encourage people to cheat. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 17:04, 6 January 2009 (EST)

[edit] Suggestions

  • i would like to have something that when you click on it would show a specific item catagory on the map like dwemer ruins, small towns etc. you get the point. thank you
  • you should add so that whenever you click on the entrance to a door (castle, cave, tomb)-any door it will pop up a detailed map of the inside of that place. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 97.89.184.240 (talk • contribs) on 6 July 2008.
    • Feature is already implemented. When you click on a door, a "Wiki Page" link appears on the popup which takes you to the wiki page, where all available information on that location is provided. Many locations already have detailed maps on the wiki page; eventually, detailed maps will be added to all wiki pages.
  • Can you make a lag-free executable of this? I'm interested in using this map, but, since it requires loading and stuff, it's rather annoying to use in a browser. I find myself using an exe version of some older map that I downloaded literally years ago just because of this.
  • Could you make a downloadable off-line version of this map to use off-line?
    • Code-wise, yes. Copyright makes it impossible though. Any such EXE would need to duplicate the Morrowind map in its entirety. Hosting it on a website where the idea is that the downloaded files are transient is one thing; permanently copying it to a user's computer would probably not be acceptable. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 05:49, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

I'm glad that this map is available online. It is very useful. However, I have a problem. When I click and drag the map up or down, part of the map disappears. It amounts to about half of the viewing screen being just white, while the rest of the map moves around as it should. I am viewing the map using Safari version 3.1.2. I will download Firefox to see if I encounter the same glitch. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.247.120.74 (talk • contribs) on 1 November 2008.

I just tried Firefox and the map runs fine. The glitch is isolated to Safari. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.247.120.74 (talk • contribs) on 1 November 2008.
...and chrome —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.160.163.120 (talk • contribs) on 8 November 2008.
Chrome is still in Beta so is likely to suffer from glitches. With our map, I found maximising my Chrome window and then restoring it again fixed the glitch. I don't have Safari. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 02:09, 9 November 2008 (EST)
  • i know i am doing this wrong, and probably in the wrong place, however..balmora in morrowind, at full zoom is missing a link to east tower, referanced by the sword of white woe, and the info on plants has locations in (5,-3) formatt, does this have any relation to the map? or is it for pc players??? Orran margath 16:29, 19 November 2008 (EST)


  • Would it be an idea to show on the map whether the place is involved in a quest of some sort? Usually when I'm going somewhere I check the map for tombs and shrines on the way there. I only clear out the ones that aren't involved in any quests, since I might mess up a quest if I kill the target before I receive the quest. Maybe an put an asterix with the name? Or make the name a different color?Pinguin333 11:29, 30 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Size

Is there any way to tell how long in miles or kilometers Vvardenvell is? C Teng [talk] 13:36, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

I believe Bethesda said Morrowind was 10 square miles large. To do an actual measurement is a bit more complicated, as you have to find out first how big one cell is. --Timenn < talk > 18:41, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
You could make an estimate by looking at other objects and characters. C Teng [talk] 22:02, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
Well it's your question, so you could do that yourself. Timenn's answer is good enough for government work. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 01:53, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
I'll look. I might be able to tell how many feet a single cell is, but if my measurement is just a bit off, it could change the whole equation. C Teng [talk] 07:17, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
According to Wikipedia, Vvardenfell is approximately 6 square miles, but it doesn't list a source. C Teng [talk] 22:08, 10 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Far Out!

I just found this map. I can't even put into words how BIG of a help this is!!

[edit] minor comments

Just started a new game a week ago and using this map to get around. I love the fact that you can go straight to the wike page of a dungeon from the map. I have two minor comments though: a) when you search for a place on the map you only get the zoomed in part of the map. When you zoom out or scroll left or right it shows the map without the dungeons. You have to reset the map and manually zoom to the location to browse the surroundings. b)the wiki reference to sorkvild's tower doesn't exist. There is no actual page called "Sorkvild's Tower", but the map has a reference. All the information you need can be found in the quest page (Sorkvild the Raven), so either the reference should go there or should be removed. I'll be playing a lot of Morrowind the coming month, so if I run into any other things I'll add them here.Pinguin333 08:24, 30 November 2008 (EST)

Thanks for pointing the Sorkvild one out - I've pointed it at Morrowind:Sorkvild the Raven (person) for now. If you come across more like that, please let us know! As for the first point... that's pretty much by design. If you've searched for a place it's reasonable to assume you want to find it quickly and easily. Having all the local map markers on would be distracting. As you point out, there's a reset link that makes it easy to show all the other places. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 09:06, 30 November 2008 (EST)
This would be taken care of by the Homes Revamp I've proposed. In this case, it would either be a redirect to Morrowind:Dagon Fel Homes (currently doesn't exist), or possibly it could be its own page - I'd have to check to recall how big the place is. --TheRealLurlock Talk 13:03, 30 November 2008 (EST)
About the first point, I agree. It makes it difficult to find locations that you are completely unaware of, though having all the map markers would be a significant distraction from the point you are trying to find. I would suggest highlighting the search point by some means. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.230.255.195 (talk • contribs) on 17 June 2009.

The Unmarked Shipwreck isn't on the map. The only reason I found it was that there's a reference to it on the Yasammidan page. It's well worth the visit since it has a crate with random glass armor parts in it, so adding it to the map would be great. Coordinates are x -199521 y 120499. Pinguin333 08:49, 7 December 2008 (EST)

Yes it is: here (and no I didn't just create that). What made you think it wasn't there? –Rpeh•T•C•E• 09:42, 7 December 2008 (EST)
(edit conflict) The shipwreck is there. For example, just follow the map link on the Unmarked Shipwreck article. As with all other shipwrecks, it doesn't normally appear until the map is fully zoomed in. If you're scanning the map looking for unknown features in an area, you should zoom in first because the locations that appear are dependent on your zoom level (otherwise the map would be unusable at most zoom settings). --NepheleTalk 09:44, 7 December 2008 (EST)
My bad. I guess I was thrown off by the fact that the forgotten shipwreck is visible while zoomed out a little. Pinguin333 10:59, 7 December 2008 (EST)

[edit] Suggestion, unless it is just me

I love the map and especially the links from the quests BUT I find that when i try to use it that way or from the search i only get the one spot and when i zoom out i sometimes lose that place when what i want is to find some nearby locations to help mark it. LadyPegasus - There are no wrong choices in life, only different paths we choose to take. 01:29, 10 December 2008 (EST)

That's what the "Reset Search" button is for. --NepheleTalk 02:07, 10 December 2008 (EST)

{smacks forehead} "DOH!"LadyPegasus - There are no wrong choices in life, only different paths we choose to take. 21:52, 11 December 2008 (EST)

[edit] Dwemer icon

mapicondwemercog.png What do you think of this, instead of the Ayleid icon, for Dwemer ruins in Morrowind? Yes, it's based on the ubiquitous Dwemer cogs, in the style of an inactive map icon from Oblivion's map. --Gez 16:00, 7 March 2009 (EST)

I like the idea. Obviously it would need taking down to 16x16px, and I think the background should be darker to fit in with the others, but otherwise great! (30s later) Hmm... I just did the resize to 16x16 and my first thought is that it looks like a Star of David. Am I being paranoid? –Rpeh•T•C•E• 16:10, 7 March 2009 (EST)
mapicondwemercog16.png I guess at so low resolutions, with the shape blurred out, it does look more "pointy" and the cog shape is less blatant. --Gez 16:47, 7 March 2009 (EST)

[edit] Mount Kand

Searching, zoomed in at Mount Kand, I noticed two things that I would like to bring to your attention.


1: The wikipage link to "Mount Kand, Cavern" takes you instead to the "Mount Kand" page.

2: Shouldn't, at least at the highest zoom level, Linus Lulus' body be labeled? Even standing on top of Mount Kand, it took me a while before I found it the first time, and I know it would help some people (unless I'm just THAT horrible at finding that dead guy, XD)

Justeazy 21:01, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

Thanks for pointing those out. Both have now been fixed. FYI, Linus Iulus is almost equally hard to find in the construction set, which is why his corpse wasn't previously added: his body is a container, not a dead NPC (unlike other dead NPCs, such as Arlowe or Processus Vitellius), so he wasn't picked up in the scan for remote NPCs. Plus his corpse is just named "Corpse", not Linus Iulus. But challenges always make things more interesting ;) --NepheleTalk 21:28, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Balyn Omavel

Correction - It should be "Balyn Omavel" not "Balyn Omarel" in Balmora (beside Caius Cosades house). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.48.124.84 (talk • contribs) on 22 June 2009.

No, his house is actually called that, the typo was Bethesda's. Though I did notice the link to the Wiki article was misspelled, as well as that of Rararyn Radarys, so thanks for bringing it up. The links have been fixed now. --Timenn < talk > 14:13, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Zoom on Shishi

Hi, I was wondering if there was a way to have the building "Shishi" north of Mar Gaan show up when zoomed further out? As it is now, you need to use max zoom just to see it. This wouldn't be a big deal except that the place is essential in the House Telvanni quests. Dlarsh 07:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Done. I've changed it from 17 (Highest zoom only) to 14, which is the same as the other Velothi Towers I checked. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 07:32, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Wow you guys are fast. ThanksDlarsh 07:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Spirit Bear

  • Can we get a location for the good beast (snow bear) on the map? I understand if you can't and I am greatful that you made this map!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.30.242.97 (talk • contribs) on 26 June 2009.
Done (map)! And thank you :) –Rpeh•T•C•E• 18:52, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] RIVERS

HEY I THINK YOU NEED TO ADD RIVERS THAT YOU CAN SEE ON THE MAP IT HELP ALOT TO KNOW IFELL IN ONE SURROUNDED BY STEEP CLIFFS YOU SHOULD AD WHERE YOU CAN GET OUT —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.55.72.37 (talk • contribs) on 28 June 2009.

This map shows exactly what you see on that large map in-game. We could probably make the rivers a little bluer, but they're already quite visible. If you're falling into things that says less about the map and more about your need to watch where you're going! –Rpeh•T•C•E• 06:40, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Specific Location Marker

I love this thing! It is going to work very well in conjunction with the GHF Census and Excise Office site we're building. The idea is that we are harvesting game data and displaying it online in a character profile. I intend to get the character's cell coordinates, and feed them through to this map. Could we have some sort of X to mark the coordinates that are included in the URL? Maybe something like the white X that shows where the Mark spell was cast. --Fligg

[edit] Tweaks to Temple entries

Just so you know; I did some modifications to the Temple entries. Basically I've changed the wiki articles they link to, to the specific Temple article (e.g. Balmora Temple) instead of the generic Tribunal Temple. I've also changed the names from generic "Temple" to their specific name (e.g. "Balmora Temple, again), so they can be found with the map link provided in the Place Summary. --Timenn-<talk> 12:24, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Tamriel Rebuilt

Hi.I think that there should be an option for the large amount of people who use TR to have the TR maps:1 and 2 on the online map for morrowind.Vevel 08:06, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Someone must be willing to run the mod to generate all map tiles, then use some scripts to create the map images for all zoom levels. The coordinates and details of all locations need to be exported from the mod so they can be used to create the full map. That's no small task! --Timenn-<talk> 10:18, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

so you can do it?Vevel 04:39, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't have the mod. --Timenn-<talk> 12:51, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

you can find it on their main page or on planet elder scrolls.Vevel 21:31, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I've should have been more clear. What I meant was that I don't have time to start on another (huge) mod. It requires much work to make a map like that, and the people who created the Morrowind map are not around. --Timenn-<talk> 14:08, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

oh, I see never mindVevel 03:10, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

to make the job easier a bit this map has all of the locations.[1]

White:Towns

Blue:Dwemer ruins

Orange:Daedric ruins

Green:Egg mines

yellow:Other mines

Red:Ancestral Tombs

Pink:Caves

Lite green:Grottos

Lite orange:Shipwrecks. Vevel 09:06, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

No, sorry. The locations need to be exported straight from the mod file so they can be converted to a workable format. The map you've uploaded here, are you sure you've got the creator's permission to upload it here? --Timenn-<talk> 12:58, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
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