User talk:Nephele

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Welcome to my talk page! Feel free to leave me a message or ask a question. To add a new topic, you can just click on the "+" tab at the top of this page (for more info, see Editing Pages and Editing a Discussion Page). I'm usually able to answer questions within a day. Or if you would prefer to ask a question offline, you can email me instead.

Contents 1 a question 2 Cookie 3 Sandbox addition 4 E-mail 5 Alphabetical quest list 6 Leave of Absence 7 Good to have you back :) 8 Redirect Template 9 Propose For Deletion 10 No 11 Morrowind:Level 12 Tamriel:Fjell 13 Footers 14 Problem With Me? 15 SORRY!!! 16 Lemerde 17 People in BM 18 Undead Armies article 19 Items in BM 20 Hitting an NPC and Speechcraft 21 Question about CS Wiki Vandal and how to deal with 'em 22 Edit Count 23 Apology 24 Alchemy Calculator: SI Ingredient? 25 Very minor issue... 26 Whoops! 27 An explanation of magic 28 Animation Bug 29 Viva La Race Revolucion' 30 Useful Potions 31 Hail To Nephele! 32 Ka Po' Tun 33 Gold Star! 34 Question 35 Movement Formulas...Formulae...whatever 36 Takl page problem 37 Question 38 External links 39 Oblivion Quest Section Spammed 40 Sort Order in Town info box 41 Image talk Balmora.gif and so on 42 Oblivion Castle Pages 43 Apologies 44 Guess what... 45 Your Daggerfall help is appreciated 46 General Applause 47 Redguard 48 Anonymous Edits 49 Patrolling Rules

Archives:

• 2006: July and earlier, August-October, November-December
• 2007: January, February, March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December
• 2008: January, February, March

Cookies: My cookie jar

[edit] a question

how do you get a cookie jar in your discussion page. i have noticed all of you have one, so i thought i could have one. any advice is much appreciated.  :) HMS WARSPITE 04:32, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

it is ok now LOL. i have done it. :) HMS WARSPITE 04:35, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Cookie

You have been given a cookie! Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say: You have been a great help to the wiki. You have foiled many vandal attempts.Dagoth Ur, Mad God 23:43, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

Thanks. --Nephele^Talk 17:08, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

You're welcome. Dagoth Ur, Mad God (talk· contribs· email) 03:06, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Sandbox addition

What do I do to add my sandbox to my page? thanks. :) ^{—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Puddle (talk • contribs).}

Just create a subpage of your userpage, like User:Puddle/Sandbox ;). –Eshe^talk 00:36, 6 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] E-mail

Nephele, I hope you have read my E-mail to you, as you have not replied yet. --HMSVictory 13:16, 6 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Alphabetical quest list

I have found that there is a problem in the alphabetical quest list pages. The first page comes up just fine, but when you click on the (next 200) link it just re-displays the first page.

Looking forward to seeing hte whole list so that can see what ones I have yet to complete. Thanks for contributing to such a GREAT site!

I assume you mean this list? If so, it's a known problem as discussed here and here. You might try creating an account to see if that helps. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:41, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Leave of Absence

Nephele, I am sorry that the recent on-going spat with Nocturnal has gotten to you. I understand your desire to step away, to let go of it.

Sometimes you can't change someone's opinion, you do however have the option to change your own perspective. Would you value one vocal critic more then the thousands that use this site every day to great satisfaction? You know that the wiki has gained tremendous trust and respect in the community and is a valuable resource. That respect was earned, not given, largely through the work of dedicated people. Is everything perfect? No. Is the wiki still dynamic and open to new inputs? As an editor of barely a month here, I've seen support and resistance to change, which means it is alive.

Having fun in whatever one is doing is something very important. I hope you regain it, here at the wiki, or elsewhere. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know.

I, for one, am grateful for the wiki. -- Cheers, Benould^•T•C 14:17, 11 April 2008 (EDT)

Hear, hear! I've seen demonstrated time and again that you are part of the backbone of this community, and have helped to make it into the tremendous resource it is today. And, as with most communities, online or otherwise, there will always be those who serve to antagonize others, whether ill-intentioned or simply in the pursuit of their own stubborn beliefs. An extended break from a community can serve to grant a fresh perspective on situations and allow you to "slow down" and examine thing more carefully. And, to second Benould, I, and many others, appreciate the wiki. See ya around, and thanks for your help and guidance (especially in my early days).Giamgiam 22:52, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Good to have you back :)

Missed your sanity around here, I hope you are refreshed? Thanks for the new reminders to Preview and Sign your comments! as well, it is helping already. XD --Benould^•T•C 13:17, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Redirect Template

I'm trying to make a redirect template to help make Redirect pages faster. I was wondering if anyone knows a way to get the redirect to actually create a redirect page when it transcludes the template. Thanks! -- OranL 14:35, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

Already answered at Template talk:Redirect. --Nephele^Talk 14:43, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

Okay, here's the answer: if you create a template with the exact text that was in Template:Redirect, and use {{subst:Redirect}} instead, it will create a proper redirect page as long as you have the proper parameters with it.

#REDIRECT [[{{{1}}}]]
This page redirects to [[{{{1}}}]]. {{{2}}}

The comment doesn't show up though, so it is mostly useless for using with Redirect, but perhaps it will be helpful to know that for something else in the future! Sorry for not trying that on a sandbox first...I didn't know that there were template sandboxes on Wikipedia. -- OranL 17:25, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Propose For Deletion

Two questions

A, How do you propose a page for deletion? I've found a poor pathetic page that should be put out of its misery.

B, Do I need sysop rights to propose a page, I know I need those rights to delete them, but I just want to propse it for deletion.

I hope I wasn't to vague. Puddle 8:42 April 19, 2008 (EDT)

First, using biased descriptions such as "pathetic" really isn't helpful. If you think that an article is not up to the site's standards, find a non-prejudicial way to describe the article's problems. The only way someone else can possibly try to respond is if you provide constructive criticism. Using unnecessary negative language is likely to anger the original editor and just distracts from the actual message.

If you believe that an article cannot be improved and qualifies for deletion, there are several tags that can be placed on an article, depending upon the nature of the article. The entire process is described at UESPWiki:Deletion Policy. Basically, if you think it is an uncontroversial deletion, put {{proposeddeletion|Reason for deletion}} at the top of the article. And, again, provide a non-prejudicial, objective reason for the deletion. --Nephele^Talk 14:52, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

One other thing: If you can't be bothered to type out proposeddeletion, like most people, simply type "prod", it does the same thing. - Game Lord^{Talk|Contribs} 14:56, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

Thank you, and sorry for using pathetic i really couldn't find a name for a roleplaying page that was poorly (I hope this is better) formatted & only had two sentences, it sounded more like a description of the users own character (I'll use these words). I meant pathetic to describe the length of the page, again, I hope I didn't anger anyone. Puddle 09:02 April 19, 2008.

[edit] No

No I didn't threatened as you think but I tried to make the words more easier to realise. And do not block me. I have not yet done any sins. Lord Geogorath 16:15, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

Whatever you want to call it, I'm saying that posts about wars that promise "this doesn't mean that everything will be peaceful'", especially following edits about "the beginning of an internal war in UESPwiki" are not acceptable. These posts have all been randomly placed on the talk pages of users who have absolutely no idea who you are, have confused people, and have left a very negative impression. Harrassing other editors with pointless threats is a "sin" and if you continue to make posts about wars, you will be blocked. --Nephele^Talk 16:24, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Morrowind:Level

Nephele, do you want to incorporate the findings form the Morrowind_talk:Level page, since you're there? The bug at least seems worth mentioning. --Benould^•T•C 20:17, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

Oops, I'm not really "there" any more ;) I'm just going through a ton of unpatrolled edits, so I'm jumping around all over the place. Feel free to take care of it if you'd like! --Nephele^Talk 20:29, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

Ok, I get to it eventually then, I'm engulfed in the Bloodmoon universe. ;) --Benould^•T•C 20:50, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Tamriel:Fjell

Nephele, while editing Fjell, I noticed that the whole article is a link from Tamriel [[:Tamriel:Fjell|Fjell]]. Why is Fjell important in Tamriel? Can this be moved to Bloodmoon and then deleted from Tamriel? If so, I don't know how to move it to a page that already exists... Help! XD --Benould^•T•C 14:23, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

Good point. And it looks like Rpeh also believed that the information should be moved out of Tamriel. Based on the fact that the history of writing the actual page contents was all on the Tamriel article, I deleted the Bloodmoon version and moved the Tamriel version into its place. While I was at it, I also messed with Bloodmoon:Brodir Grove, although there it wasn't necessary to delete the Bloodmoon version to reorganize the information. Hopefully now they're both ready for you to work your magic expanding the articles with place summaries :) --Nephele^Talk 15:55, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

Yep, perfect solution, thanks for all your magic moves there. Summaries are done for them. --Benould^•T•C 16:19, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

Found one more, Bloodmoon:Lake_Fjalding. I'll do a scan for more Tamriel articles in Bloodmoon tomorrow, g'nite. --Benould^•T•C 01:26, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Footers

Sorry about not noticing the comments on the footers, I was following the footers and didn't see your comments, also, are obscenities allowed on user pages, I found one, but I'm not supposed to edit user pages. Puddle 19:18 April 20, 2008. (EST)

It's OK. It was just a bit puzzling to have someone who had just requested that the article be deleted, then start adding links to the article -- links that if left in place are just going to increase the work required by the admin who tries to fulfill your original request by deleting the article. Normally editors try to help by getting rid of any links to prod'd articles.

As for obscenities, no, they are not allowed anywhere on UESP, even on user pages. However, it's generally best to leave difficult edits, such as modifying a user's page against the user's wishes, to admins. If the user is likely to complain about the edit, then it's best to handle it carefully; if you're not sure how to handle an edit, then it can wait until someone more familiar with the site is able to take care of it. --Nephele^Talk 21:27, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

Thank you, it deals with a userbox, I think i'll just ask nicely, If that dosen't work i'll contact an admin.-- Puddle 8:39 April 22, 2008. (EST)

[edit] Problem With Me?

It seems you have assumed the worst with my question on Oblivion talk:Books. So I will clarify for you: I didn't mean anything negative with my use of "forgotten." All but two of the definitions carry any hint of malady. I am again disturbed by the distrust and cynicism newcomers to the Oblivion community are met with. (This seems to be a common theme with the Oblivion community, I had a similar thing happen to me on the official forums.) What must I do to convince everyone that I am not here to destroy everything? (That question is open to everyone, not just Nephele.) --Enterprise2001 22:49, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

I think you are overreacting a little. Yes, Nephele took your comment in the wrong way, but that is no reason to accuse her, or indeed anyone, of being distrustful or cynical. --Twentyfists 21:08, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] SORRY!!!

I am most sorry about that! I know that even though I am still new here, I still need to follow guidelines.... and I will get into the habit of doing so! Thanks for being patient with me, even though I never asked for it..... I'm still learning the ropes of editing, and doing well... but please tell me whenever I do something silly, so that way I can change it! Thank you!!!--Ahnaz31 12:37, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

Don't worry, you're not the only one to be doing this kind of thing.--Darth NANAME 09:14, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Lemerde

Hmm, is this username meant to say what i think it says? i don't know if this is unnecceptable or not, what do you think? --Volanaro 13:18, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

The only thing I can think of is that you're worried about the similarity to the French "merde"?? In which case, I really don't think we need to be quite that paranoid. To say that a name that bears a slight resemblance to a minor curse word in a foreign language is forbidden seems a bit overboard to me. --Nephele^Talk 13:35, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

He probably doesn't even realise it. The only occasions of "Lemerde" I can find outside this site either invlove some minority cartoon series or a fictional character's surname. --HMSVictory^Talk 13:41, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

Oh by the way, i notice you undid several changes i made to new user talk pages, which had a welcome message on there made by michaeldsuarez, Just so you know why i did this, Rpeh and several other users has been trying to phase out out most theses messsages and replace hem with the standard welcome, last i knew this hadn't stopped so i continued doing it. --Volanaro 09:01, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

When rpeh changed Michaeldsuarez' welcome messages the situation was completely different. First, this was the appearance of the welcome message. As discussed at length here there were specific issues with the early versions of the welcome message. However, Michaeldsuarez subsequently changed his welcome message to one that was acceptable.

Second, and to me even more importantly, on the pages that Rpeh modified, the welcome message was being added as a template (i.e., the only code to appear on the page was {{User:Michaeldsuarez/Welcome}}). Using a template for a welcome message is very problematic in many ways, for example, it means that the contents of a talk page can be completely revamped without there being any indication of why the page dramatically changed. It had already led to confusion among the users with that welcome message, and the only way to fix the confusion was to replace the welcome message with a static message.

I personally don't think that altering user welcome messages in one situation (where there were clearly expressed problems being caused by the welcome messages) sets up a general precedent that all user welcome messages must be replaced in all other situations. Without any specific problems being caused by the current messages, I'd say that standard site policy applies, which clearly states that "In general, editors should not modify or delete talk page contributions made by other editors". In order to create a general exception to that rule, there would need to be a community-wide discussion and consensus that all welcome messages other than the one standard message are unacceptable. There has been no such discussion and if there were such a discussion it's very unlikely that there would be a consensus (or at least I'd be arguing against such a guideline).

In all honesty, to me your edits come across as a personal crusade against Michaeldsuarez. That it's not good enough that you've already driven a good editor away from the site, but that now you also want to erase all traces of his contribution. That may not be the intent behind your edits, but it does seem clear that it's been the result, because I sure haven't seen anything of Michaeldsuarez since you and HMSVictory teamed up against him. --Nephele^Talk 13:25, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

We did not "team up against him." We simply happened to share a common view about his Welcome message. What drove him away was the edit war between him and myself, and the fact that we were both blocked after you and Rpeh managed to sort it out. --HMSVictory^Talk 13:33, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

However you want to characterize it, the second half of this whole exchange (the part between HMSVictory and Volanaro) was petty and negative. It may not be the entire reason for Michaeldsuarez' departure, but I know that it made me consider leaving the site permanently, and I wasn't even the person towards whom it was all directed. --Nephele^Talk 13:42, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

I have apologised to Micaeldsuarez, and now I'm apologising to you. I never intended to put either of you off using the site and from where i was sitting i though i was following rpeh's instructions on what to do with Michaeldsuarez's welcome messages, as i have said on his talk page, I now know that I misenterpreted this and hope that I have not impacted anyones opinions on the site or its community. --Volanaro 11:02, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

Thanks, Volanaro, especially for your post on Michaeldsuarez' talk page :) --Nephele^Talk 12:35, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

(Outdent) I doubt he'll come back, though. A pity, since he was a valuable user despite these incidents. Personally, I feel that trying to improve your face on the site after an huge embarassment is far better than leaving it, but everyone's different. If Michaeldsuarez returns, I'll make sure to apologise too, but until then, I see little point. Thanks for the help with the Tamriel Library articles guys. --HMSVictory^Talk 13:07, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] People in BM

That was funny ;) Go ahead and do the Thirsk table, if you are still up for more, I'll do something else then. Also, the towns still reside in no-mans-land, i.e. Morrowind. The regions, Tirsk, and Skaal reside in Tamriel, do we want to keep them there? --Cheers, Benould^•T•C 00:55, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

I was working on them mainly because I wanted something mindless to do while watching the hockey game ;) Now the game's over, and I'm going to be heading to sleep pretty soon, so I won't be tackling any more right now.

With the regions, there are Bloodmoon-specific versions of the pages, so I don't think there should be any problems adding the people tables to the Bloodmoon region pages. And we probably will stick with having Tamriel pages as well for the regions. Regions generally seem large enough that it's worth covering them in Tamriel; it's also what's been done for the other games (e.g., Tamriel:Azura's Coast plus Morrowind:Azura's Coast; Tamriel:West Weald plus Oblivion:West Weald).

As for the towns, I'm afraid I'm not quite getting the problem there? I can be a dense sometimes, probably because I haven't played Bloodmoon yet ;) --Nephele^Talk 02:08, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Maybe there is no problem at all, it's just that the category for i.e. Bloodmoon:Fort_Frostmoth is Morrowind:Cities & Towns, yet it isn't listed on that page. I am not sure that that matters... and there are only a few instances, so a Bloodmoon:Cities & Towns page might not be needed. I was just worried this would mess up searches and such. And yes, editing and sports go great together, I'm watching the NBA playoffs... --Benould^•T•C 02:21, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Aha, the categories! :) I was focussing on the page name and thinking that the articles needed to be moved somehow. Yes, the categories for the cities (and the breadcrumb trail on the top of the page) should all be Bloodmoon rather than Morrowind. As with the caves and barrows, the source of the problem was buried in some of the templates, so I've gone ahead and updated the templates. And again created more Bloodmoon (and maybe even Tribunal) red links ;). Whether we really need a Bloodmoon:Cities & Towns page is questionable; arguably that link could be removed but for now I just continued to exactly mirror what's been done for Morrowind. But the other links definitely needed to be updated, so that you get taken to Bloodmoon:Places instead of Morrowind:Places, for example. --Nephele^Talk 16:34, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for that! I am still confused about these auto-pages... what I was expecting was this: Morrowind:Ships, where all descriptions from the individual pages gets listed automatically. Not sure why that is not happening, although it is probably me not understanding the Byzantine-Maze-o'-Code hidden underneath the pretty pages XDD --Benould^•T•C 16:46, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Only the category pages are automatic lists. In other words, only pages such as Category:Morrowind-Places-Ships, where the name starts with "Category". If you edit a category page, you don't see any of the articles listed there or in any way mentioned, because the list of articles is created completely automatically. Specifically, it's a list of all the articles that state (on the article page) that they belong to the category. Somewhere on those pages (frequently hidden in templates such as the Morrowind Places Summary) there is the text [[Category:Morrowind-Places-Ships]]. That code says "add this page to the Morrowind-Places-Ships category".

Pages such as Morrowind:Ships (no "category" at the start of the name) are manually created. If you edit the page, you see that the page contents contain a list of all the ships. The list uses the "Place Link" shortcut to "fancify" the list, but somebody still had to go in and add the name of each ship to the page before the ship appeared. Similarly, if you want to create pages like that for various Bloodmoon places, you will need to type in a list of the places in one way or another.

The reason we tend to have both manual lists (Morrowind:Ships) and automatic lists (Category:Morrowind-Places-Ships) is that they each have advantages and disadvantages. We have no ability to change the appearance of links on the category pages: there's no way to add a few extra details to the list of articles, it's just a list of articles. However, the list is automatic and the category system overall is a standard navigational system on wikis, that some users will naturally prefer to use. On pages such as Morrowind:Ships we can ultimately customize the list to provide any information that we think is relevant; we can format the information and sort it. But it's not automatic, which means editors need to remember to manually update the page whenever necessary.

Hopefully that helps to make a bit more sense of things :) --Nephele^Talk 17:30, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Undead Armies article

I'm not sure where to go with this article. the writer came to me asking for advice but it seems to contain too much redundant information, what do you think? --Volanaro 12:29, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Ummm.... I do tend to notice what's been happening on recent changes. Sometimes just giving me a few minutes to catch up with everything is all that's needed. For example, I was already posting a proposed deletion tag on the article in question when you posted this question. --Nephele^Talk 12:33, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Sorry, I do get a bit jumpy sometimes. --Volanaro 12:38, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

(Followup moved to User talk:Lordvader178#New article to prevent discussion from being fragmented across too many different places)

[edit] Items in BM

Nephele, when you get a chance could you generate a detailed dump of magical items in BM? I started Bloodmoon:Generic Magic Items so we can link from Caves, etc., and get rid of red links that are already in place. On Bloodmoon:Item_List, I can only see weight and value.

PS: I am using Linkable Entry Staff of Carnal Channeling in the list, yet Bloodmoon:Skygge does not link. Do I have to make a redirect for each item? Enlighten me, please ;) --Benould^•T•C 17:54, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

If nobody else gets to it first, I'll see what I can do. But it's going to require adding a few chunks of code to my MW tools, so I can't do it right away.

Creating links is basically a two step process. The Linkable Entry creates a point that you can link to. Once it's there, you can immediately start creating "long-format" links. In other words, Bloodmoon:Generic Magic Items#Staff of Carnal Channeling will now take you straight to that entry on the page. But for "short-format" links to work, a redirect needs to be added that says that a link like [[Bloodmoon:Staff of Carnal Channeling]] should be redirected to the long-format link. If you're in a rush to fix the red-link you can create the redirect yourself. Or else you can leave it to be created by a bot... I'll probably sic my bot on a few sets of Bloodmoon redirects here pretty soon. --Nephele^Talk 23:44, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for that great explanation, I'll use the long link and let the bot deal with the rest. No rush, not like Bloodmoon is a new game ;) --Benould^•T•C 23:52, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

Oops, I meant to also say: it's better to leave it as a red link than to change the links to the longer format, at least in cases when it's pretty certain that a redirect is going to be created. That saves the effort of later changing the link back. And it also means that if we decide to reorganize, then the redirect is the only thing that needs to be changed; all the other pages will automatically point to whatever place the redirect identifies as the best place to find information about the Staff of Carnal Channeling. --Nephele^Talk 23:56, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

Ok, that's even better. Might just have to communicate that to Gaebrial as he was taking out red links he couldn't resolve, while patrolling. Hence my my flurry to get the reference pages up. I'll keep an eye on it. --Benould^•T•C 00:05, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Hitting an NPC and Speechcraft

Regarding this revision: While it's probably easier just to play the Speechcraft mini-game "negatively", hitting an NPC who doesn't care is certainly a reasonable method of lowering the disposition...especially if you accidentally raised him beyond your ability to play the game with him any more. Just my thoughts...I didn't submit it, so it makes no difference to me either way. :) --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 01:11, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, I suppose. Although that still doesn't explain to me why you'd want to go to an out-of-the-way hamlet just to train Speechcraft on an NPC who'll let you hit him. --Nephele^Talk 01:27, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

True enough. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 01:46, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Question about CS Wiki Vandal and how to deal with 'em

Hi Nephele

You seem to be the "techy" person around here, so I thought it'd be best to ask you - we're having a problem with a vandal at the moment. 'e keeps moving pages around, to the point that they can't be moved back. While the damage isn't too bad and we have it under control (except for one page) I'd like to be able to prevent this in the future. I thought I'd seen a rule/limit mentioned here about the number of times a page can be moved within a day, but I don't see it on the Editing Guidelines, Blocking, or Vandalism pages. Does that sound familiar, or does UESP have any rule like that in place?

As I've mentioned before, we have to get all of our upgrades by begging Bethesda, so I need to make sure I'm asking for something that can be done. Many thanks--Haama 01:39, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

Oh no :| It looks like you've inherited one of our recent vandals. Unfortunately, our attempts to control him on UESP just seem to give him a reason to reach out and find other ES wikis to target. FYI, he's been blocked temporarily here three times now and he's been permanently blocked on at least two other sites.

We don't have any limits on moves in place on UESP. However, scanning through the mediawiki configuration file it does seem to be an available option. There's a $wgRateLimits array that can be used to place limits the number of actions that an account can do in a certain amount of time. So it looks like you could impose a limit that regular users can only move pages x number of times in 86400 seconds (one day). It's not per page, but per account. One caveat is that the feature requires memcached to be enabled, which might not be true on CS Wiki (we only started using memcached here a few months ago).

At first look, that's all that I can see. Good luck :) --Nephele^Talk 02:06, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Edit Count

Hi Nephele! I suspect this is more of a daveh question, but since you're about the next best thing and I wasn't 100% sure if it would be only him that could answer, I thought I'd bug you before going to him. Is there any chance of us getting an Edit Count php script in our special pages here? See Game Lord's User Page on wikia.com for an example of what I'm talking about. Thanks for reading. :) --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 10:56, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

Hmm, the thing is here that the editcount template on Elderscrolls Wikia bascially takes the information from the page [[Special:EditCount/Username]]. On UESP we don't actually have that special page; instead we have the ActiveUsers page. I'm sure that a EditCount page could be built, and would support the idea of having it, as it helps in other ways. All ActiveUsers does is record the number of edits made. EditCount actually says how many in each Namespace, which is helpful when checking a user's contributions outside of talk pages. - Game Lord^{Talk|Contribs} 12:24, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, that's basically what I'm asking for. The Special page is the end effect, but if I understand correctly, it's a PHP script that drives it. After a fashion, we already have it, since, as you point out, the count is given on the ActiveUsers page, but it would still be nice to be able to include it in a Userbox on one's profile as you have on wikia. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 13:14, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

The feature on wikia comes from an EditCount extension. There are a few different verions of the extension floating around. There's one available at mediawiki, that adds both the special page and the ability to display a number on any other page you want. There's a disclaimer at the top of the page, though, stating that it's not the extension used on wikia; I think the wikia version is the one listed here -- at least the author name is the same. In either case, Daveh is the one who needs to add the extension. It's typically a pretty straightforward task (although there's always a chance of complications with an extension that accesses namespaces, given our unusual setup). Adding the extension is likely to be easier than trying to set up some code to mimic it (and creating our own code would still require Daveh to get installed, just with a greater chance of complications!) --Nephele^Talk 13:35, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

Okay, I'll bump this over to him, then. Thanks Nephele! --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 13:39, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Apology

Sorry. I'll assume you know what I mean. --HMSVictory^Talk 11:59, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

I'm just glad to see that things are going better for you :) --Nephele^Talk 13:46, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Alchemy Calculator: SI Ingredient?

I was reading the appropriate page, and it's been 346 days since you said you'd update the Alchemy Calculator with SI plants. Is there any update or word on this? I don't mean to sound like an ass, but your calculator is the best I've seen and I'd like it to be... well, usable post-SI. Scumbag 22:54, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Very minor issue...

...but why the undo on http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Gripes/Poor_Use_of_Screen_Real_Estate? It did add new information...that the quickness to save has caused me problems in the past. Robed Dawnbringer 13:07, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

OK, perhaps it was new information for that particular article. But the fact that you should be cautious with quicksaves is already explicitly stated on the FAQs article. And the information didn't seem particularly relevant either to the gripe (being able to name saves) or to the article (Poor Use of Screen Real Estate). The Gripes pages may be more informal and less organized than the rest of the wiki, but I still don't think the articles should be forum-style discussions where the conversation is free to wander off-topic. I hope that helps explain it :) --Nephele^Talk 16:34, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

Very well. I'm sure I'll recover from the heartbreak :). Robed Dawnbringer 13:31, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Whoops!

Sorry about that. I did look but I didn't spot the span; I think I was looking for a Linkable Entry instead... –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 14:12, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

Of course if I'd ever bothered to jot down a few words of documentation about the template, it would probably help to make it more obvious what the template does ;) It also crossed my mind whether to update the pages using the template to use the Linkable Entry template instead, but I didn't immediately see an advantage to doing that. --Nephele^Talk 16:41, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] An explanation of magic

I have been looking around on here, and I can't figure out exactly what the following means:

"X damage for Y seconds in Z feet"..........what in the world does "feet" mean? I can't find that information anywhere.

It's the area of effect for the spell, and means that the spell will affect anything within Z feet of the target. So Fire Damage 10 pts in 20 feet means that all creatures standing within 20 feet of the spell's target will take 10 points damage. --Nephele^Talk 15:28, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Animation Bug

Hi Nephele.

I've been playing Oblivion for about 5 months now, and I have just encountered the Animation Bug. Under the 'Levers not Working' section of the glitches page, you posted a link to a solution. But it seems the link is outdated... It dosn't go anywhere. All the research I've done has led me to zBobGuy's Animation Fixer. Do you know if it's compatible with the X-box 360? And if so, where can I find it? Any advice you could give me would be very much appreciated.

The updated link is this, which it sounds like you've already found. As with all third-party mods, it is only available to PC players. As far as I know there is no real fix for Xbox players. It's a bug that is basically just triggered by the number of hours of gameplay. So if you'd like to continue to playing Oblivion, the best option is to just start a new character. --Nephele^Talk 11:40, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

Also, the main source for information about the bug is the official forums, see the current thread on the topic. --Nephele^Talk 17:30, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for the reply. Wouldn't mind starting over if the bug was fixed, but there's not much point if I'll just encounter it again down the road. I'll keep looking for a fix for the X-box version, or figure something out myself. Where there's a will, there's a way.  :) I'll let you know if I find anything.

[edit] Viva La Race Revolucion'

Ok... I have exactly 28 Userboxes here, One for EACH race, including Werewolf, Wereboar, and Vampire! Now... how do I add them to the Userbox page? Or is it too many?-Puddle 22:18, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Useful Potions

Nice job on the Useful Potions. I like the new layout. It's funny, cuz I was looking at that the other day and mentally added it to my list of things that I might wanna clean up at some point, but yours looks MUCH better than anything I had in mind. :) --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 23:48, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Hail To Nephele!

You have been given a Battle! Your dedication, diligence, and attitude to the Wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the efforts you have made, and has given you a Battle as a result. Congratulations! This user reminds you to fight and kill mercilessly daily, but also had the following to say: Hail to Nephele! You have helped lead the editing forces into the perilous war between Editors and Vandals! So to commemorate our coming victory, I give you this Battle! May all your edit wars be quick and easy! Hail to you for helping our site become legendary across the Wiki-World!-Puddle 00:07, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

Thanks, Puddle :) --Nephele^Talk 00:15, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Ka Po' Tun

Hi Nephele, no wonder people try to correct Tamriel:Ka Po' Tun. Our Main Page artice Did you know... spells it Ka' Po' Tun. Could you fix that please? --Benould^•T•C 00:11, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

It can actually be edited by anyone at Main Page/Did You Know. I've already undone it once, and didn't want to get into an edit war by changing it again. Although it looks like we've now settled on Ka Po' Tun (maybe?). --Nephele^Talk 00:18, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

Let's hope so, I am tired of the topic. XDD --Benould^•T•C 00:20, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Gold Star!

You have been given a gold star! Thanks for updating a great feature on the Oblivion pages! On top of your "normal" workload, you find time to add something unique, kudos! The opinions you continue to offer shed light on deeper issues and help to resolve them. Keep up the good work! –Benould•T•C 01:56, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Question

I'm reposting this here so that Rpeh doesn't get millions of "You have new messages" messages... The exact situation is that as you probably noticed I'm turning my frankly chaotic userpage code from HTML into wiki here. For the userboxes section, I'm trying to get the gap between the table wall and the userboxes to vanish, and the gap between userboxes to vanish. By the way, when I say userboxes, I actually mean cells. All my userboxes are customized with categories added at the bottom of the page. Thanks - Game Lord^{Talk|Contribs} 15:56, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

The get rid of the gap between userboxes you'll need to use "border-collapse: collapse" added to the style of the subtable that contains all of the userboxes (e.g., in the place where you currently have cellpadding:0; cellspacing;0). To get rid of the gap outside the userboxes, you'll need to add style="padding:0" to the cell that contains that table, e.g., on the line where you currently have width=100% colspan=4.

If you'd also like to simplify your coding immensely... instead of all the vertical-align:middle commands you could just add class=vmid once to the subtable. And you could get rid of all the border commands by expanding the class command to class="hiddentable vmid" for the subtable. Good luck :) --Nephele^Talk 16:31, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

Done! Thanks for that. I'm keeping the border commands as they are, because I'm considering having some multicolored borders later. - Game Lord^{Talk|Contribs} 09:28, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Movement Formulas...Formulae...whatever

Hey Nephele, I just re-organized the Movement Formulas page. I think it looks and flows better now, but see my comments on the discussion page for it. Since you seemed interested in the concept, I figured I'd notify you specifically, in case you didn't notice it on your own. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 00:03, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Takl page problem

Nephele, when I try to click the "+" tab, I get the following:

Forbidden
The UESPWiki – Your source for The Elder Scrolls since 1995

This is a User talk page, used to leave a message for the user Dagoth Ur, Mad God. Please sign your post by typing four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your message.



You tried to add or remove a protected section

I need help. Dagoth Ur, Mad God ^{T C E} 03:11, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

Then I suppose you're just going to have to edit your talk page using the "edit" button rather than the "+" button. You're obviously able to do that, and know how to do that. Digging through code for hours to track down an obscure issue that basically only affects your user talk page is much closer to the bottom of my priority list than the top. --Nephele^Talk 13:30, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

Just for clarity (and completely revising my previous post), the issue occurs for me as well, but it's not when you click the "+" button, it's after you hit "Save Changes". Since the issue seems to affect all users, perhaps you could just paste a quick {{Notice}} at the top explaining that because of the protected section, edits need to be done by the more manual method. I'd do it myself, but with the amount of blocks and other admin-type stuff going on there, I'm reluctant to do anything that might step on toes or send the wrong message to DU, etc. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 14:07, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

Oh, I also tried adding a section before the Protect tag to see if that might resolve the issue, but it had no effect. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 14:16, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Question

Hello,

Really stupid question here: I remember seeing a template that forces an image to become a link, but for the life of me I can't remember where it was, or what it was called. Could you shine some light on the matter? - Game Lord^{Talk|Contribs} 17:16, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

Yep, it's Template:navimg. It doesn't have any type of documentation but you can see it in use, for example, on the Oblivion:Illusion#Magical Effects page. Also, the same template is probably available at wikipedia, where there might be a bit more documentation. --Nephele^Talk 17:31, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] External links

Hello,

I wanted to make some changes to my userpage, but thought I'd better ask you first. On Help:Links it states that <span class=plainlinks> should only be used for in-UESP links, and not to disguise links. I was going to use that command to make the external links on my userpage lose that little arrow. So what I'm asking is does the "no plainlinkings" carry onto userpages? Breacuse I find that little arrow annoying, and I've put quite a bit of effort into making my userpage pleasing to the eye (At least to my eye). - Game Lord^{Talk|Contribs} 14:19, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

Well, to some extent that's one of the key issues being discussed right now on the Community Portal. But in the meantime, I'd say, yes, what's written at Help:Links applies sitewide, including user pages. --Nephele^Talk 14:59, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Oblivion Quest Section Spammed

Have a look:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Quests

Codex 18:11, 8 May 2008 (EDT)Codex

I took care of it. Thanks for pointing it out, though! –Eshe^talk 18:14, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Sort Order in Town info box

Nephele, I have a hard time re-ordering the Town info boxes. See Morrowind:Tel Branora as an example, Almsivi Intervention and Divine Intervention should be grouped together, followed by Boat transport. There must be a forced alphabetical order in the template, can you please take a look at it? Thanks, Benould^•T•C 00:16, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

I got it. It's not automatically alphabetical - it's just that's how the template was originally set up, and you have to change the template to change the order. I agree that it does make sense to group the two intervention fields together, however. All fixed. (May take some time for all the pages to reflect the changes, as is typically the case with widely used templates like this.) --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 01:08, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Image talk Balmora.gif and so on

Nephele, do we have permission fro TIL for all the MW main city GIFs, like Ebonheart.gif or should I tag them all for replacement? --Benould^•T•C 02:06, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

We should get replacements anyway. GIF files can only use 256 colours so they're not really suitable for this type of shot. If I'd noticed we were using GIFs for that kind of thing I'd have tagged them long ago. Good spot! –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:20, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Oblivion Castle Pages

I really want to do this and I think it would help the wiki. May I please create a page for each castle in the game? I am quite adept at it and if I shouldn't do it, please tell me. I pretty much have all the information on some of the castles so they won't be major stubs. Thankyou! --Matthewest ^{•T•C•E•} 05:40, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

At 2am I tend to be asleep, so your orders telling me to "please go to the chatroom A.S.A.P?" are just annoying. Not to mention that in general if I'm away from the chatroom, it's because I have a real life which takes a higher priority than UESP. Please try to show a little bit of respect. --Nephele^Talk 13:34, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

I do understand that Nephele but your edits in the recent changes suggested you were active. Saying 'please' in a sentence isn't an order either. --Matthewest ^{•T•C•E•} 04:13, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, I'd made an edit two hours earlier so somehow that means I'm still active? And saying ASAP and then complaining in IRC pretty much negate the effect of one "please". --Nephele^Talk 12:56, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

Sorry to cause any trouble but if you weren't active, how can the so called 'orders' be annoying? I don't want to argue anymore and I am sorry to bother you. --Matthewest ^{•T•C•E•} 19:24, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Apologies

I don't know if you have read my comments on IRC just now, but I just want to make it clear. You must understand that I try to contribute constructively to the site, but my condition and my battling emotions cause me to fail every time. Although I am not leaving the site at this point, I will do my utmost to refrain from interfering with other editors, acting like I own the site, making personal attacks, making up ficticious site policies, being territorial over pages, showing extreme prejudice to anonymous edits and simple being an idiot overall. I can't keep apologising for every time something like this happens, so I'm going to approach the site from a different angle. SORRY. --HMSVictory^Talk 14:41, 11 May 2008 (EDT)

Sorry I disappeared from IRC but I had an emergency come up with my cat. At first I thought it would only take a couple minutes to deal with, but it ended up taking longer than I expected. --Nephele^Talk 14:01, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

Well, real life takes priority, so it's no problem. I love cats anyway, so I have no quarrel there. --HMSVictory^Talk 12:20, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Guess what...

I am in the top 50 active users!! Dagoth Ur, Mad God ^{T C E} 03:09, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

...by making irrelevant and inconsequential edits like this one! Congratulations, I'm sure you must be so proud, persevering to increase your edit count in the face of innumerable reverts and warnings. Wait, that doesn't sound so impressive when I say it out aloud... --Saruuk 04:06, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

You know, I'm thinking we could've avoided about 400 largely-pointless edits if only we'd had the Active Users page default to showing 500 users instead of 50. ;) --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 01:25, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Your Daggerfall help is appreciated

Thanks for keeping an eye on me. Since I've run out of hacking material to update, I guess I need to return my attentions to the Daggerfall Factions. Darn glad to know you're around. --15:18, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

G'night, Neph. I feel "derailed" by some recent (and well-meant) 3rd party edits. Since I have some errands to run before going to bed I might as well call it "quits" now. Since my work is piling up I don't know how much time I'll have for the wiki tomorrow, but thanks again for watching my back today. --Uniblab 17:09, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] General Applause

i have to say nephele you are a ledgend, im sure that many have said this before but honestly without you this wiki would be hardly more than a jumbled pile of info most of it corrupted or vandalised, you have endured so much e.g. the "Nocturnal" incident that i think you truly deserve to be called a rock, a pillar an ent. :) great going. Lewbot1 15:33, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Redguard

The description to Redguard came straight from the official page, timeline. Is it then Arena TES1, Battlespire TES2 and Morrowind of course TES3? I was trying to validate a previous unpatrolled edit, and wanting to resolve confusion... --Benould^•T•C 01:48, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

It's Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion in the "main" TES series. Battlespire and Redguard are the two oddball games. See, for example All Games. Or BethSoft's full press release, where Battlespire and Redguard are called "spinoffs". Also, note that the date on the page to which you linked is 2004: the game that came out ten years earlier was Arena, not Redguard. --Nephele^Talk 02:02, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Right, Arena was released 1994, hence me wanting to call Redguard something else then the 1st game XD description. Anyways, thanks for helping a noob out here ;) --Benould^•T•C 02:08, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

But the key point is that it's described as the first adventure game. Which it is. It's the first and only game in the "Elder Scrolls Adventures" series. Your edit obscured the critical information about it being an adventure game; the series isn't called "Elder Scrolls Action-Adventures". --Nephele^Talk 12:16, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Thanks, the Redguard:Redguard article is much clearer and informative now! --Benould^•T•C 17:59, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Glad that helped. And sorry I didn't just do it right away last night. --Nephele^Talk 18:32, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Anonymous Edits

I see you recently undid a revert i made to a userpage. Concerning the anynomus IP edit i was always told that annonymous editing of your own pages is permitted, which is why I undid HMSVictory's edit in the first place. --Volanaro 09:58, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

I was not aware that the IP address was ZanderX's. Sorry. --HMSVictory^Talk 12:21, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

I suppose the biggest thing here that bugged me was just the attitude that there is some hard-and-fast rule that can always be used to decide what's right on a user page no matter what the situation. The fact is that deciding what needs to be done on user pages is a case-by-case judgment call; there is no rule that "annonymous editing of your own pages is permitted"; there really aren't too many rules about user sandbox pages. So going back to a one-month old edit and reinstating it based on a non-rule just seemed extreme. Do we really want to go through all old edits to user pages and spend time debating what's right and wrong in each of those cases? I'd say after an edit is a couple of weeks old, and after it's been patrolled as acceptable, just leave it be.

The only real "rules" that we have about user page edits are what's stated on UESPWiki:Namespaces under "User". Everything after that is a judgment call. If it's clear that anonymous editor is the same as the same as the user, the edit is generally assumed to be OK. If it's not clear, then anything is possible: sometimes the edit gets undone; sometimes the edit gets left for a few days to see what happens. If it involves deleting content, it's more likely to get undone; if it involves adding content that seems to fit with the page it's more likely to get left. That's all just for user pages... when you get to user sandboxes, it's even less clear. What's appropriate depends upon the user, the nature of the sandbox, and dozens of other nebulous factors. Many user sandboxes are treated just like standard articles: any one is free to edit and improve the page (or delete content from the page if a requested task has been completed).

As for these specific edits. The anon edit was deletion of content, which is always questionable. I think it's perfectly fair in that case to ask that the user login before deleting content from their sandboxes. The fact that the user hasn't logged in the month since the edit adds to doubt about whether or not the deletion really was done by the user. At least, if the user really had cared about the edit, it seems like something would have happened in the meantime. Going and re-reversing the edit a month later just confuses the situation. The edit made by Dagoth Ur was fixing a typo. If the page was a real user page, typo fixes become borderline. But on a sandbox page, why undo a typo fix? How does it harm the site to have one less typo? Who does it hurt to just leave it in place and make the article easier to understand?

Again, the bottom line is that trying to take individual cases and turn them into absolute rules just doesn't work. So please don't try to turn any of this into a new law about what must or must not be done. Edits are frequently individual judgment calls, and if you're uncertain about what's appropriate in a given case, it's really best just to skip the edit and let someone else deal with it rather than jump in and make an unnecessary decision. --Nephele^Talk 13:02, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

What you have said makes perfect snese. Sorry for troubling you with this. Next time, I'll try to be more careful in how I deal with this kind of edit. --HMSVictory^Talk 13:13, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

A while ago I sent Rpeh an email explaining some of my strange behaviour, if yo ulike i could send you the same one, it covers some personal issues though so id have to ask that you only discuss it with Rpeh or TheRealLurlock, I've come to trust you and them more than anyone else here. --Volanaro 13:35, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

It doesnt tell you much, just a little bit abot some problems that affect my thinking, like i said, just say if you want to know. --Volanaro 08:48, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Patrolling Rules

Since we're on the subject of "rules", are there more pages somewhere describing rules for Patrollers? I've read over the obvious ones, like the Style Guide, but there have been a number of things that have come up where I wasn't entirely sure what the "rules" were for Patrolling them. For instance:

• The Gripes pages: Language is much less formal and often first-person here. Is this acceptable?
• The Roleplaying pages: What makes an acceptable Roleplaying page?
• Matthewest's new Castle pages (e.g., Castle Anvil): Are they suitable additions? I wasn't sure if they were necessary or not, but they were certainly useful enough once created; with no guidelines, though, I wasn't sure whether to mark them as patrolled or not.

It goes without saying that I can leave these for more experienced Patrollers to decide on, but if nothing exists already, we should consider making a Patrolling Guidelines page that covers the exceptions to the rules, and clarifies the more unusual circumstances. This would help if we ever get into the position of having all the experienced Patrollers having left or being on vacation at the same time, for instance. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 13:42, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Looking at the Patrollers' Q&A, I decided it could use some expansion and re-formatting anyway, and I had some time on my hands, so I went ahead and created a new sub-page, as I'd suggested above. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 12:27, 15 May 2008 (EDT)