User talk:Rpeh/Arc 201001

This is an archive of previous comments on my talk page. Please do not post a message here - use this link to go to the active page instead. Thanks.

DotNetWikiBot help

Finding docs and examples on DotNetWikiBot ain't easy! If you don't mind sharing, how do you enumerate all site/namespace pages when you need to? Easiest I've found is to set Site.botQuery = false and then FillFromAllPages for each required namespace. Using botQuery = true is better but only gets 500 pages then you have to loop to fill the rest. Is there a better way? Thx. Joram 22:29, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

It'll be easier when you get Bot status for your account because the limit goes up to 5,000. I just loop around using the "query-continue" param. It ain't pretty but it seems to be faster than using non-bot queries (as it should be, given you're just downloading XML with the API stuff). –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 22:32, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

I was afraid you'd say that. Bit of a nuisance, but not really onerous. Joram 22:34, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

This may help: here's my version of the FillFromAllPages function. I've tweaked, prodded and generally f***ed around with it all so much it's probably very different from the original. For some reason, it was already coded to a 500 page maximum.

public void FillFromAllPages( string firstPageTitle, int neededNSpace, AllPagesRedirectType redirects, int quantity )
{
        if ( quantity < 0 )
                throw new ArgumentOutOfRangeException( "quantity", "Quantity must be positive integer." );
        Console.WriteLine( "Getting " + quantity + " page titles from \"Special:Allpages\" MediaWiki page..." );

        int count = pages.Count;
        bool finished = false;
        int limit = quantity;
        if ( limit > 500 )
                limit = 500;
        if ( limit == 0 )
                limit = 500;
        string redirectParam = "all";
        switch ( redirects )
        {
                case AllPagesRedirectType.NoRedirects:
                        redirectParam = "nonredirects";
                        break;
                case AllPagesRedirectType.RedirectsOnly:
                        redirectParam = "redirects";
                        break;
        }
        do
        {
                string queryUri = site.site + site.indexPath +
                        "api.php?action=query&list=allpages&apnamespace=" + neededNSpace.ToString() +
                        "&apfrom=" + HttpUtility.UrlEncode( firstPageTitle ) +
                        "&apfilterredir=" + redirectParam +
                        "&aplimit=" + limit.ToString() +
                        "&format=xml";
                string res = Bot.wc.DownloadString( queryUri );
                res = res.Trim();
                XmlDocument xd = new XmlDocument();
                xd.LoadXml( res );
                XmlNodeList allpages = xd.GetElementsByTagName( "p" );
                foreach ( XmlNode n in allpages )
                        pages.Add( new Page( site, HttpUtility.HtmlDecode( n.Attributes["title"].Value ) ) );
                if ( ( quantity > 0 ) && ( pages.Count >= quantity ) )
                {
                        finished = true;
                }
                else
                {
                        XmlNodeList resumes = xd.GetElementsByTagName( "query-continue" );
                        if ( resumes.Count > 0 )
                        {
                                XmlNode resume = resumes[0];
                                XmlNode param = resume.ChildNodes[0];
                                firstPageTitle = param.Attributes["apfrom"].Value;
                        }
                        else
                        {
                                finished = true;
                        }
                }
                //firstPageTitle = site.RemoveNSPrefix(pages[pages.Count - 1].title, neededNSpace) + "!";
        }
        while ( !finished );

        if ( ( quantity > 0 ) && ( pages.Count > quantity ) )
                pages.RemoveRange( quantity, pages.Count - quantity );
        Console.WriteLine( "PageList filled with " + ( pages.Count - count ).ToString() +
                " page titles from \"Special:Allpages\" MediaWiki page." );
}

–rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 22:38, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Excellent! Saves me a bunch of coding. What are the members of AllPagesRedirectType? Those two and a 'All' member? Joram 23:05, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Ah - forgot that. Close - I use "Both", but I'll give you the cigar :)

        /// <summary>
        /// Enumerates the type of page to be returned by the PageList.FillFromAllPages method.
        /// </summary>
        public enum AllPagesRedirectType
        {
                RedirectsOnly,
                NoRedirects,
                Both
        }

–rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 23:09, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

I played around with getting it to work from FillFromCustomBotQueryList. I got there but it was a little ugly. Might have been less ugly if I'd overloaded it to accept apFrom as a parm. Went back to your version but plugged it into the botUseQuery condition so the non-botQuery code still works. Now the non-botQuery code needs a regex for RedirectsOnly - I love regex but I hate regex. Joram 01:02, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

As the old joke goes: Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use regular expressions." Now they have two problems. In that spirit, here's my template-matching RegEx: @"{{" + templateToFind + @"\s*(\|(\[\[.*?]]|{{.*?}}|.*?)*?)*}}" in case you need such a thing. You can loop through Matches to get each match, then through the Captures collection on Groups[1] for each param. It has served me well! –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 01:09, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

<< Thx, that will be useful when I get there. Joram 02:21, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Here's what mine looks like now. I moved common code out of the if block and made a small change to your code to use Bot.GetWebResource instead of Bot.wc.DownloadString. Also fixed and reported a bug in the last for loop where i was initialized to 1 for a 0-based array.

public void FillFromAllPages(string firstPageTitle, int neededNSpace, AllPagesRedirectType redirects, int quantity)
{
        string redirectParam = "";

        if (quantity < 0)
                throw new ArgumentOutOfRangeException("quantity",
                        Bot.Msg("Quantity must be positive."));
        Console.WriteLine(
                Bot.Msg("Getting {0} page titles from \"Special:Allpages\" MediaWiki page..."),
                quantity);
        int count = pages.Count;
        if (Bot.useBotQuery == true && site.botQuery == true)
        {
                bool finished = false;
                int limit = quantity;
                if (limit > 500)
                        limit = 500;
                if (limit == 0)
                        limit = 500;
                redirectParam = "all";
                switch (redirects)
                {
                        case AllPagesRedirectType.NoRedirects:
                                redirectParam = "nonredirects";
                                break;
                        case AllPagesRedirectType.RedirectsOnly:
                                redirectParam = "redirects";
                                break;
                }

                do
                {
                        string queryUri = site.site + site.indexPath +
                                "api.php?action=query&list=allpages&apnamespace=" + neededNSpace.ToString() +
                                "&apfrom=" + HttpUtility.UrlEncode(firstPageTitle) +
                                "&apfilterredir=" + redirectParam +
                                "&aplimit=" + limit.ToString() +
                                "&format=xml";
                        string res = Bot.GetWebResource(new Uri(queryUri), null);
                        res = res.Trim();
                        XmlDocument xd = new XmlDocument();
                        xd.LoadXml(res);
                        XmlNodeList allpages = xd.GetElementsByTagName("p");
                        foreach (XmlNode n in allpages)
                                pages.Add(new Page(site, HttpUtility.HtmlDecode(n.Attributes["title"].Value)));
                        if ((quantity > 0) && (pages.Count >= quantity))
                        {
                                finished = true;
                        }
                        else
                        {
                                XmlNodeList resumes = xd.GetElementsByTagName("query-continue");
                                if (resumes.Count > 0)
                                {
                                        XmlNode resume = resumes[0];
                                        XmlNode param = resume.ChildNodes[0];
                                        firstPageTitle = param.Attributes["apfrom"].Value;
                                }
                                else
                                {
                                        finished = true;
                                }
                        }
                        //firstPageTitle = site.RemoveNSPrefix(pages[pages.Count - 1].title, neededNSpace) + "!";
                }
                while (!finished);
        }
        else
        {
                quantity += pages.Count;
                switch (redirects)
                {
                        case AllPagesRedirectType.Both:
                                redirectParam = "<td[^>]*>(?:<div class=\"allpagesredirect\">)?<a href=\"[^\"]*?\" title=\"([^\"]*?)\">";
                                break;
                        case AllPagesRedirectType.NoRedirects:
                                redirectParam="<td[^>]*><a href=\"[^\"]*?\" title=\"([^\"]*?)\">";
                                break;
                        case AllPagesRedirectType.RedirectsOnly:
                                redirectParam="<td[^>]*><div class=\"allpagesredirect\"><a href=\"[^\"]*?\" title=\"([^\"]*?)\">";
                                break;
                }

                Regex linkToPageRE = new Regex(redirectParam);
                MatchCollection matches;
                do
                {
                        string res = site.site + site.indexPath +
                                "index.php?title=Special:Allpages&from=" +
                                HttpUtility.UrlEncode(
                                        string.IsNullOrEmpty(firstPageTitle) ? "!" : firstPageTitle) +
                                "&namespace=" + neededNSpace.ToString();
                        res = site.GetPageHTM(res);
                        matches = linkToPageRE.Matches(res);
                        if (matches.Count < 2)
                                break;
                        for (int i = redirects == AllPagesRedirectType.RedirectsOnly ? 0 : 1; i < matches.Count; i++)
                                pages.Add(new Page(site, HttpUtility.HtmlDecode(matches[i].Groups[1].Value)));
                        firstPageTitle = site.RemoveNSPrefix(pages[pages.Count - 1].title, neededNSpace) +
                                "!";
                }
                while (pages.Count < quantity);
        }
        if ((quantity > 0) && (pages.Count > quantity))
                pages.RemoveRange(quantity, pages.Count - quantity);
        Console.WriteLine(Bot.Msg("PageList filled with {0} page titles from " +
                "\"Special:Allpages\" MediaWiki page."), (pages.Count - count).ToString());
}

Joram 04:53, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Seems it wasn't a bug in DotNetWikiBot, it's only for the RedirectsOnly regex, the other two should ignore the first hit which is a "retrieved from" link. Joram 01:20, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Next up: #save

I saw on NepheleBot's page that {{Oblivion Ingredients Link}} still existed but the others near by didn't. I investigated and updated {{Ingredient Entry}} to handle the Rare Ingredients on Oblivion:Ingredients but I don't totally get how #save works. I know I can conditionally #save like in {{Description}} but I don't see this in the Oblivion Ingredients Link history. I figure there must be some other way. Do I just create a dummy template and preview it to save? I'd just play around but I don't want to bugger the page up. Joram 20:33, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Huh. I hadn't noticed that. Well as a first step, the uses of that template can just be replaced by direct links. For instance, Ashes of Hindaril already has a redirect that takes it to the right place. I think, although I haven't tested anything, that most of the rare ingredients on that page could be replaced by {{Ingredient Entry}}, since #load is clever enough to follow redirects and most of the time the stats are the same for rare / common versions of the ingredient. If not, then you could use #save on the redirect and it would load those instead. Probably.

For all ingredients, the #save is done on the various pages that use {{Ingredient Summary}}. Unfortunately, the only way you can test #save is to save the page that calls it. Even doing a preview doesn't commit anything to the database. That's one of the biggest problems with it. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 20:43, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Trail Template

It looks like the changes you made to {{Trail}} remove [[Category:{{NS_CATEGORY}} <...>]] when it's paramter-less which leaves some pages with no category. Joram 02:03, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I knew there would be something wrong. I'm glad it wasn't something bigger. If you can think of a better way of doing that template, I'd love to hear it, incidentally. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 07:15, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I can see a possible optimization but it may be no better than what you've got. I'll play with it. Can you give me an example of where the / splitting is used? I couldn't find anything with a / in the parameters. Joram 16:50, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Take a look at the quests in here, for instance. And yes, I know I need to create a Miscellaneous Quests page. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 18:31, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Have a look at User:Joram/Zain. It seems to handle everything but give it an acid test and tell me if it needs tweaking. Unconvential use of #local but it works out really well. Joram 18:41, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

It'll have to wait until tomorrow morning. I'm really not feeling well tonight and advanced template stuff is out of the question. Looks much neater at first glance though. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 19:36, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

No hurry. Hope you feel better in the morning. Joram 20:36, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Bump. ☺ Joram 23:54, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I know, I know. It looks right. Go for it. It's certainly more understandable than mine, but I'm still not at 100% over here. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 00:04, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

<- Thanks. Sorry to have bothered you, I didn't know if you forgot or had been holding off deliberately. I'll post on CP about it too in case anything goes wrong. Joram 02:19, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Quick Question

Bit of an annoying foramtting question: There are two images at the top of my userpage which currently stack vertically. Is there any way to get them to sit horizontally across the page? I've tried mucking around with their markup placing but that hasn't worked. Thanks in advance ofr any help you can give. --Itachi 21:02, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I think rpeh's taking a sick day. Try this:

{| class=hiddentable style="float:right"
|[[Image:MW-npc-Gothren.jpg|100px]]
|[[Image:MW-npc-Duke Vedam Dren.jpg|100px]]
|}

Joram 00:57, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Try [[Image:MW-npc-Gothren.jpg|right|clear=none|100px]][[Image:MW-npc-Duke Vedam Dren.jpg|right|clear=none|100px]].–Elliot ^talk 01:00, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Or this: <div style="float:right">[[Image:MW-npc-Gothren.jpg|100px]][[Image:MW-npc-Duke Vedam Dren.jpg|100px]]</div> Joram 01:03, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks all, I'm going to use the table format so it looks less messy on the edit page. -Itachi 15:46, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for not responding but it looks like you've got the two solutions I'd have suggested anyway. Each way has problems and benefits and don't forget that people may not have a monitor as wide as you do. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 18:08, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

STOP!!!

Stop! You are filling up Recent Changes with too many edits!!! How will we stop this man/machine?!? He's making all of us look bad! Just kidding, great work on the TR3 pages! ;) --SerCenKing Talk 13:18, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

 :-) You had me worried for a moment when I saw the section title! I've got about about 70 sets of wares to add, I'm afraid, then I've got to start worrying about spells. Turns out they depend on things like class and level so can't (easily) be auto-generated. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:21, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Just leave, you hopeless loser. — Unsigned comment by 86.170.169.139 (talk) on 6 January 2010

Oh it's you again. Happy New Year. Now do something useful or go away. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:51, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

What do you mean, me again? And no I won't. I've got as much right to be here as you. 86.170.169.139 14:00, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Editing the wiki is not a right, it's a privilege. If you continue to make useless comments and insult editors, that right will be removed. - GL^T|C 14:04, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Dimple monkey! Twice the pudding!. 86.170.169.139 14:19, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Octopi for Tango Man. 86.170.169.139 14:39, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Who the fuck is this? -Itachi 14:51, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

TR4 Creatures

First of all... ugh! I shifted the info on TR4 creatures from my sandbox to here. Unfortunately I've having quite a few problems:

• For some reason the trail being displayed was: Oblivion:Tes4Mod:Tamriel Rebuilt:Creatures:Undead. Why Undead?
• I got both species and type to come up as red-links. e.g. I would get Tes4Mod:Animals coming up etc.
  • To solve this I used the |speciesnamesp=OB param. While this turned the species link blue, it also made the trail appear thus: Oblivion:Creatures:Undead
• The Factions link is also red (it wants a Tes4Mod Faction page)
• Finally, a lot red categories are coming up, like Tes4Mod-Creatures-Animals etc.

In one word: HELP ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 09:09, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

The trail comes up like that because it's the type of the last infobox on the page. We'll probably have to hard-code a trail once the other problems are fixed.

The Faction link is wrong because there's a problem with the Creature template.

The categories should be coming up, but they should obviously be Tes4Mod-Tamriel Rebuilt- rather than just Tes4Mod-. I'll take a look at the Creature template now.

Even with all the redlinks that page looks really good! –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 11:37, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Well that's fixed all the obvious stuff. Just needs the remaining categories creating now. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:03, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing that, really appreciated it! Just a quick question: do I create the Tes4Mod Categories for Souls?

p.s. I'm glad you like the page! --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:32, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't quite sure what to do about souls... or the other categories. Given that there won't be any more creatures being added, it seems silly. On the other hand, there's no way to not have the categories there without making an ugly hack of the Creature Summary template.

On balance, I'd probably say create them. They won't be the only categories on the wiki with only a couple of items in them! –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 15:37, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Faction Template

I've been thinking about other ways to do {{Faction}}. I think it can be done without /Rank pages but any way I can think of is ugly.

I just saw your status update though. What is it you've done? I'll change User:Joram/Bet to match. I'd like to put that in place of {{Faction}} if only to get rid of the nested template. Joram 00:43, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I've created redirects for the Oblivion, Shivering and Tes4Mod-Tamriel Rebuilt pages so that the template cleverness that first looks for the faction page before taking you you Factions_x#Faction is no longer necessary - you can go straight to the faction page. Just doing that means that a lot of the nastiness can come out of that template.

I wondered about Rank pages too. One solution might be to change all pages that load the rank by name (eg Mages Guild/Rank|Archmage) to a number (eg Mages Guild/Rank|9). We could #save the ranks as Rank1, Rank2 etc and load them back in the same way. Although you could do the same with names, that's where it starts to get messy. Thoughts? –rpeh •T•C•E• 07:27, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I thought of 4 ways in increasing order of ugliness:

1. Your way that I started poking at yesterday, see User:Joram/He. I agree going to only numeric ranks is the best.
2. A giant {{Rank}} template using switch:Game switch:Faction switch:Rank. Could end up like the deleted Oblivion refid template though.
3. Require /Rank pages even if they do nothing. I think checking #return would be necessary to avoid a value of 'Faction ()'.
4. Like #1 but #save and parse a string like 0|Novice|1|Apprentice|2|Master. Cuts down on number of variables but then you have to parse the string which is ugly.

The first way makes the most sense to me. Joram 20:31, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Me too. I'll have RoBoT take a look at how many calls to the Faction template use strings and then we can see where to go. –rpeh •T•C•E• 21:06, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I didn't mention the benefit of #4 which is that the string could be "0|Novice|Nov|Novice|1|Apprentice|ArchMage|Arch-Mage" etc. I'd still go with #1 though. Joram 23:26, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Sure - I was just worried about how horrible the parsing would be though. Even if we enforce an arbitrary number of alternatives for each rank to make the parsing easier it'll still be horrible. I think #1 is the way to go. –rpeh •T•C•E• 07:26, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

(u/d) Ah. I forgot about rank lists like Oblivion:Nobility/Rank, Oblivion:Nine Divines/Rank and Oblivion:Order of the Virtuous Blood/Rank.

Is it possible we've missed the obvious solution here? How about just saving a set of variables like Rank_0, Rank_Apprentice, etc, along with RankIcon_0, RankIcon_Apprentice? The faction template can just try to load whatever value it gets sent.

BTW - there are over 150 calls to the Faction template that don't pass a simple number. –rpeh •T•C•E• 08:28, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

I see the problem. I agree then that Rank_<#_or_word> is the best way. As you say #4 is horrible. Good idea to add the _ too to get around name conflicts if ever Rank='Icon'. Joram 18:53, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Okay, Let me know what you think of {{Save Named Values}}. The idea is to make saving all the various values easy to understand. We should now be able to save all the various rank values and icons in one statement, like this:

{{Save Named Values
|Rank_0|Associate
|Rank_Associate|Associate
|RankIcon_0|[[Image:MagesGuild0.gif|22px|Associate]]
|RankIcon_Associate|[[Image:MagesGuild0.gif|22px|Associate]]
|Rank_1|Apprentice
|Rank_Apprentice|Apprentice
|RankIcon_1|[[Image:MagesGuild1.gif|22px|Apprentice]]
|RankIcon_Apprentice|[[Image:MagesGuild1.gif|22px|Apprentice]]
}}

It's going to lead to some big calls, but the alternative would be a mass of individual calls that I think would be even trickier. What do you think? –rpeh •T•C•E• 20:40, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Nice use of #splitargs. I had foreseen a bunch of #defines followed by #save for the lot of them. Your way is much cleaner. ‒ Joram↝Talk 22:01, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Okay... the new (test) version of the template is here. I've added the faction ranks to Bloodmoon:East Empire Company and Oblivion:Mages Guild for testing purposes. The sheer length of the Mages Guild one makes me a bit leery, but I suppose if it's too much it could always be bumped off to a subpage and transcluded onto the faction page. Please hack the template around if you can spot any improvements. If not, we can start adding ranks to the other faction pages. –rpeh •T•C•E• 11:06, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I added nocat and basecat back in. Nocat is used at Tes3Mod:Tamriel Rebuilt/Priest et al. I kept the {{SUBJECTSPACE}} check to prevent a user adding themselves to a category which I think they could do by using namesp. Basecat is just to get rid of the redundant string concatenation.

It's harder for unfamiliar users but the template could be removed from each faction page after saving it or moved to the end to get it out of the way. ‒ Joram↝Talk 23:33, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

(u/d) Good spot. I was so busy working out the icon details I forgot about the cat thing. Moving the save to the end is probably a good idea - less intimidating for anybody trying to get to the actual article.

I'm not going to try to write a bot task to move the ranks because there are so many exceptions. If you want to start moving them, I'll join in tomorrow, then we can switch over to the new template some time later in the day. –rpeh •T•C•E• 23:47, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Yeah that's what I thought too. I'll get started in a couple hours. ‒ Joram↝Talk 00:03, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

All done, mostly. See User:Joram/Aleph for what's left or go back one edit for the full list. My reasons may be a bit cryptic, I'll follow up tomorrow. I used a Word macro to assist, only a couple needed tweaking but a double-check wouldn't hurt, I was working pretty quick. ‒ Joram↝Talk 07:10, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I've finished off the last ones on your list. There's no problem with using the template on a redirect (or a disambig page) so I created the missing redirects and added the template. If that's the lot then I think we can move to the new version of Faction. –rpeh •T•C•E• 10:38, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

It looks like there's a bug, see User:Joram/Gimel. Just on my way out for a bit, I'll look at it when I'm back if you don't get there first. ‒ Joram↝Talk 18:09, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I think I fixed it - the nocat check was hiding the rank text. Interesting that the new version works better than the old when the faction is a link. –rpeh •T•C•E• 18:30, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I thought it would be something easy, I think we can move it now. ‒ Joram↝Talk 19:40, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Fantastic! I'll do it tomorrow morning (my time). The server is quieter then and I can check more quickly and revert more easily if there's a problem. Good teamwork on this one! –rpeh •T•C•E• 19:42, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

That's why it's good your edits need patrolling...

...or I would probably would have missed this, quite breathtaking! --Timenn-<talk> 15:31, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! I quite like that one myself. I had it ready to upload into my Photo Album, then all the master training quests got split off and I thought it was too good a chance to miss. –rpeh •T•C•E• 15:35, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Arcane University Images

Hey Rpeh, I wanted to bring to your attention the Arcane University page you (kinda) recently flagged as needing cleanup. I was thinking the page could benifit from some photos, such as The Lecture Podium, The Alchemical Garden, the Mystic Archives, the Arch-Mage's Lobby, and maybe some interior building shots. I was thinking of a format similar to Houses with images on the right, descriptions on left... kinda like what my sandbox shows (minus the pictures). This way, we can add a more detailed description of each building. So, what do you think of the idea, and will you be able to take pictures? -- Jplatinum16 05:45, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

That sandbox looks like a great start but I think it can be even better. Look at the brilliant guild pages that GK created, like this and this. If you can expand each section along those lines then it'll be a great article. I'll gladly grab any images you need. –rpeh •T•C•E• 07:00, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks rpeh :) I'll get started on expanding each building today. I won't need the pictures until I'm sure the sections are detailed enough-- Jplatinum16 15:02, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Update: You've probably been noticing I haven't been active lately, hehe. It's because of school and homework and friends, and all that good stuff, but I've managed to start working on the sandbox. I've only done the accessible lobby, as it will take me a while to get the recommendations. Just wanted to give a head's up, and to see if you had any suggestions or feedback. Also, for the photos, how many do you think we would need? I'm sure we don't need any for the sub-sub-sections, like the Quarters or Council chambers, or the points of interest section (but maybe a picture of the The Alchemical Garden would be okay). We don't have to discuss this now if you don't want, as I still have a lot of work to do with adding info. -- Jplatinum16 02:06, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't want to overload the article with images, but on the other hand I think there should be pictures of the important points. I would think five images should be enough, but we'll be able to judge better when you've had a chance to work on it more. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:27, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

I present to you, the The Arcane University, with detailed info of each building, beautiful pictures from a talented artist, and people. It took me a while, but I think all the hard work paid off. I don't think it's quite done, though. Some stuff I might want to add include a section for services, some more links, and maybe a cleaner look. What do you think of the (almost) finished product? Your feedback will be apreciated :) -- Jplatinum16 17:28, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

I was just admiring it! After a (very) brief look through, the only things I would suggest are adding a "KotN" note where items are only added through the plug-in (you can use the {{KotN}} template), and possibly adding a list of plants in the alchemy garden (see this for an example). It looks brilliant though! I think you should make it live asap so other people can tweak it if necessary. rpeh •T•C•E• 17:35, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Request for comment on image

You said in the cleanup tag for this image: "Needs to be much better - compare to File:SI-item-Madness Armor.jpg". Unfortunately the glass reflection makes it difficult to take a good screenshot. I've tried using various forms of illumination (see the history of File:SI-quest-The_Antipodean_Hammer_Madness.jpg, the first one is without any extra illumination, the second one is with a steel illuminate staff), but I don't really like the results. Should I remove the glass like you did for the Madness armor image (though at that point we could just use your madness armor image instead)? -- Nx / talk 16:39, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Ah yes, the glass. I seem to recall that you can't just disable the glass as it's built in to a special static block as part of the whole display cubicle. To get the image I think I had to write a small mod to replace the Amber armor stand with a Madness armor stand and then take a picture of that. TBH, I think you're probably right that we should just go for the existing Madness image: it can use that upright param you mentioned. Trying to get another 4x3 image purely for an illustrative shot seems like overkill. Ooh - in fact I just found the original screencap, which I didn't think I had any more, and I was right - it's taken in the Amber Armor cubicle (and in fact, still has the Amber Armor leaflet pinned to the wall). I've uploaded it, but I'm not sure we really need it. –rpeh •T•C•E• 20:01, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, the glass is part of the big static that makes up most of the house, so I imagine removing it would require editing the mesh. BTW, you overwrote my test screenshot, not the one that's used in the article. -- Nx / talk 20:29, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Oops! Thanks for pointing that out. Now re-uploaded. –rpeh •T•C•E• 20:43, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry

I'm not perfect with grammar ^_^ — Unsigned comment by Mortariit (talk • contribs) on 10 January 2010

Don't worry about it - Khajiit/Khajiits/Khajiiti is always confusing, not least because Bethesda aren't 100% consistent about the way they use it! –rpeh •T•C•E• 09:48, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Haha, true

Sorry about the map thing too, I'll stop editing till i have a better idea of everything ^_^ Mor'tar'iit 09:53, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

No that's okay - don't let a couple of early problems stop you editing. That's why we have patrollers - to pick up on these things and fix them. :) –rpeh •T•C•E• 09:57, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Coolios ^_^ Your pretty coo-well Mor'tar'iit 10:35, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Lore:Dwemer as a Featured Article

As you can see here I am eager to see this as a Featured Article. If you have the time, please could you read what I've written on it's talk page and provide any suggestions as to improving it. Thanks! -Itachi 20:58, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

I've posted my thoughts on the article talk page - here. In summary: it's close, but not yet ready. –rpeh •T•C•E• 00:19, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Hey

I was wondering if you used a special program or something to make that picture that says your name in daedric ^_^ Mor'tar'iit 04:06, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Just Paintshop Pro and the Daedric Font. –rpeh •T•C•E• 07:46, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Wanted category

Rpeh, I'm not sure if this is something wrong or something normal but it seems that your recent tweak to the Oblivion-Factions-Bravil Loche family faction is making this wanted category to appear. I rather to tell you since you know more about this stuff than I, and actually I don't know what to do :/ Anyway, I just wanted to let you know in case you haven't noticed. --S'drassa ^•T2M 05:48, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Well whatever it was, it's gone now! I changed a couple of things yesterday and the job queue might have been catching up - or somebody might have fixed it. Thanks anyway. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:28, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Faction Category

I updated the docs. If you want to change namesp back to #define go ahead. Probably not necessary though, page has all the needed info. #define-ing namesp could allow stupidity like {{Faction Category|page=Oblivion-Factions-Mages Guild|namesp=Morrowind}}. ‒ Joram↝Talk 00:43, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

My bad - I was seeing some redlinks but it looks like everything's fine now the job queue has caught up. Brilliant bit of reworking, BTW! rpeh •T•C•E• 07:20, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Thx. It wasn't just the job queue that needed to catch up. I was doing like a million things at once and didn't get to the docs right away. ‒ Joram↝Talk 08:46, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Deletion Review

I'm going around in circles on improving the DR templates. I do nested/substed templates about as good as I do Regex. Help? I'd like to get rid of the {{#sub:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|25}} on the Deletion Review page and have it give the correct page name as the title instead. ‒ Joram↝Talk 22:43, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Those templates are indeed a long way away from being pretty. I'll take a look tomorrow. Tiredness is too much of a factor at this point! rpeh •T•C•E• 23:13, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

And utter incomprehension is too much of a factor at this point. I have no idea how to improve those. I'd need to make dozens of sandbox entries to get my head around the whole subst mess. I'm not sure why the deletion review system was done like this. Anything that takes three templates to implement is too complex. I'd be tempted to kill the whole lot, since the only people who ever start a DR are admins or other users who know what's going on anyway. rpeh •T•C•E• 08:49, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I missed your response on this, just saw it today. I'll have another go at it after 'Round 1' and see if I can do something or rethink it. I'll steal from Wikipedia if I don't get any better ideas. ‒ Joram↝Talk 21:21, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry I can't help :( . It seems far too much effort for far too little reward. If you really want to look into it, you should look at using external links to point to the page marked for deletion. At the moment, somebody always has to go back through and replace the internal links with external ones if the page is deleted to avoid redlinks. rpeh •T•C•E• 21:23, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Good idea, and then wrap it in a plainlinks span. ‒ Joram↝Talk 21:29, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Scientific contradiction to the creation of Nirn

Hey^_^ Ive been thinking about something and i thought to ask you cos your pretty knowledgable on elder scrolls; you know how theres a scientific solution to the imbalance of the shivering isles that involves the gnarls, well, is there a contradiction to the nine divines that would be similar to the real world Evolution Vs Christianity, (Science Vs Religion), in how Nirn came into existence? or is it just one view, the religious one. Mor'tar'iit 14:10, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry i accidently posted it twice somehow? im actually not on the computer, im on my DSi ^_^ Mor'tar'iit 14:14, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm... not sure what you mean. I don't know of any imbalance about the Isles, yet alone a scientific solution to it. Neither do I know what you mean by contradiction about the nine divines. Sorry. rpeh •T•C•E• 14:59, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Its alright, i probably didnt make perfect sense, have you read "Bark and sap" that might explain the isles thing ^_^Mor'tar'iit 00:08, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Also, i read on your page that your an artist and a fiction writer, if its possible id like to see some of your art and fiction (i love Oblivion fiction) ^_^ Mor'tar'iit 02:19, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I've read Bark and Sap (and just re-read it) but the book puts the cart before the horse: it suggests that the dichotomy betweem Mania and Dementia is caused by the Gnarls, when it's far more likely that it is the division between Mania and Dementia that causes the differences in the Gnarls.

As Haskill says, "His [Sheogorath's] will is His own; His reality follows suit.", and more directly, "It is the Realm of Lord Sheogorath. It is what He wills it to be. The trees bloom according to His whim, and the wind blows at His command." (my emphasis). It's true that Haskill is only a servant, but he's a pretty darn knowledgeable one!

Beyond that, I should say now that I'm not prepared to enter into a debate about Evolution vs Christianity, or Science vs Religion on this site. My beliefs are summed up in a few words on another wiki, and should you want to discuss them, that is the place to do it. rpeh •T•C•E• 11:19, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

"Science it works b!tches", i love it ^_^ im very much the same as you when it comes to religion and all that sh-....stuff, you left a question unanswered ^_^ Mor'tar'iit 12:18, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Artist, in this context, refers to taking screenshots in the games. See, for instance, this. My fanfiction is already available through the link in the userbox. rpeh •T•C•E• 12:23, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

I love your screenshots, but how did you take them if you have the xbox, and where is your health bar and stuff Mor'tar'iit 23:41, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Haha, your poems are really funny, i love the khajiit one (only cos its a khajiit) and the Nord one Mor'tar'iit 23:50, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! Actually I'm on the PC, not the XBox so it's quite easy to turn off the screen elements using the "tm" command. The limericks aren't great because they need to be fairly clean. rpeh •T•C•E• 12:00, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

I cant wait to get it on PC, so many mods to play with ^_^ my favorite screenshot of yours is the gottshaw moon. Mor'tar'iit 01:53, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Two things

Kinda hit a dead end in two places here. Firstly, should we do something about that IP that keeps adding the merchant list to the soul gems article? I would post some kind of warning on his talk page but I don't know the templates (I'll make a point of learning them) and I know constant reverts will result in some big frowns ;). Secondly, do you think another image on Oblivion:Speechcraft is necessary - specifically one showing the persuasion minigame in progress, perhaps annotated as well. I uploaded an image of the plain interface earlier, so is it worth putting another one up to corrspond with the text? -Itachi

I'm ignoring it for now. I can't be bothered getting into a fight about it. More images on the Speechcraft page might make it clearer, I suppose. Too many will just overwhelm the page though. Do what you think is best then others can change it later if need be. rpeh •T•C•E• 12:22, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll add the second image with some kind of summary in the caption. Annotating it seems like overkill at this point. -Itachi 12:24, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Tit For Tat

The regex you gave me was great until today when it bombed with the Artifact Summary on Oblivion:Draconian Madstone from the newlines before the pipes. RegexOptions.Singleline could've fixed it but I like to put it in the pattern itself. Here's my pattern now with some more tweaks I thought you might like.

@"(?<!{){{(?i:" + search[0] + ")" + search.Substring(1) + @"\s*(\|(\[\[(.|\n)*?]]|{{(.|\n)*?}}|(.|\n)*?)*?)*}}"

It ignores {{{Artifact Summary}}}, and it handles {{artifact Summary}} but disallows {{aRtIfAct Summary}}. I still hate regex. ‒ Joram↝Talk 04:27, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

I usually cheat and use SingleLine, but that looks interesting. I'll give it a shot. Thanks! rpeh •T•C•E• 05:51, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Infernal City?

I have noticed that you are proposing all of the Infernal City articles for deletion. I was just wondering why? — Unsigned comment by Corevette789 (talk • contribs) on 25 January 2010

You may be seeing an old version of the page. The Infernal City has been moved Lore:The Infernal City|here along with all its sub-pages. I'm just killing the old pages that aren't linked from anywhere else. rpeh •T•C•E• 23:51, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

TIC cats

Rpeh, I think I have found some sort of... inconvenient. Among your most recent cats you created :Category:Lore-Infernal City-Characters|this one when I had already created [[:Category:Lore-The Infernal City-Characters|this one]]. I created that cat because (as I said in my reply) that category was being displayed in Mere-Glim's page as a non-existent one. Now, since I know you're the expert in this (for the record, I don't know anything about TIC), I will let you handle this situation :) --S'drassa ^•T2M 01:46, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Hmm. I'll try to work out what's going on. I have a feeling I know what I've messed up though.... rpeh •T•C•E• 02:07, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Way To Go

I just saw your new userboxes about the 50/100,000 edits. Way to go! I have some editing to do to catch up. ;) ‒ Joram↝Talk 06:29, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! As for catching up, you're making a heck of a start at the moment. Long may the excellent work continue.

hullow

i was wondering if you could explain to me what exactly is this tamriel rebuilt thing? Mor'tar'iit 02:46, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Tamriel Rebuilt is a large-scale mod for both Oblivion and Morrowind. See this for more info.--Corevette789 02:50, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

See also this for the Morrowind version. I highly recommend both the MW and OB mods. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:16, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank yawwMor'tar'iit 23:17, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Hello!

Hey Rpeh. I was wondering if you could check out my user page, and see the poll there, I would like to see other users responses for it. Thanks! --Arch-Mage Matt 03:15, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry but I won't be participating in that poll. Thanks for the offer though. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:16, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Cleantable

When I preview {{Creature Summary}} I get a small table, when I save it I get everything. Is cleantable ignored in Template space or did I do something stupid? ‒ Joram↝Talk 01:15, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I've noticed the same thing. I'm not sure, but I think it's a feature, although I'd call it a mis-feature. As long as it does the right thing on the pages where it's used it shouldn't be too much of a problem. rpeh •T•C•E• 06:48, 30 January 2010 (UTC)