User talk:TheRealLurlock

Question

Hey Lurlock! I have a question – is it possible to extract the logo for the College of Winterhold (as seen here) from the game files? Like an icon of sorts? The bigger, the better, of course. Thanks in advance! --Krusty (talk) 04:52, 11 January 2013 (GMT)

From the looks of it, that seems to be modeled geometry, rather than just a texture, so I'd say likely not in this case, though it's possible they did something fancy with normal mapping - I haven't looked too closely at the Skyrim game files. (The icons I did were just screenshots from the game against a black background.) Though it might be simple enough to just trace it and make it whatever size we want. What were you looking for, just black against transparent? TheRealLurlock (talk) 14:17, 11 January 2013 (GMT)

Hello again! JR suddenly sent me an old file with the logo and I photoshopped it to death. The end result is here - and I think it's okay for now. We tried the game files and they are more or less hopeless in png... --Krusty (talk) 23:22, 11 January 2013 (GMT)

Loading Screen Models

Hey TRL, I know you and Kimi (who hasn't been especially active lately) have been the ones to upload most of the icons for Skyrim, and I thought I'd point out this discussion in case you have input and/or feel like taking on the task. — ABCface^◥ 15:40, 11 January 2013 (GMT)

Messages

Hey Lurlock! I just saw what you did with the Messages page, and I'm thinking there has to be a better way. The H1s are definitely less confusing (having H3s act as higher level headers than the H2s that are now included with the messages was just...odd), but the H1s don't look that great either. The easiest fix is obviously to take the headers back off the message pages, but what if we could have it both ways? I'm thinking some {{#if: magic might do it. Thoughts? ⇠eshe^talk 15:12, 15 January 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, I just wasn't sure if that would fly on these messages, which are subst'ed as far as I know. One alternative would be to simply change all the messages to use H3's. It's not like anybody looks at these for the most part. (Why we insist on putting blocked messages on spammer talk pages at all is a mystery to me - the bots aren't going to see them or care.) It could do with some testing. If an #if statement works with a subst'ed message, I'd say we should do it. I'm just not sure if they work that way or not. TheRealLurlock (talk) 16:26, 15 January 2013 (GMT)

Hmm...I'm not sure if it'll work with the substitution or not. I'll check it out when I get some time. Thanks! ⇠eshe^talk 17:13, 15 January 2013 (GMT)

So... it works, but it leaves the #ifeq junk in there, and makes the section not editable. I don't know if that's a big deal or not, but it does seem to be an improvement... TheRealLurlock (talk) 17:17, 15 January 2013 (GMT)

What I've got now in User:RobinHood70/Zain seems to do what you want, but I have a mental block when it comes to substitution, so I may have overcomplicated it. Have a look, and feel free to simplify it if I have, or copy it to the actual Block templates. Oh and if you're wondering just what the hell all that code actually is, don't look at me! I got it from wikipedia:Help:Substitution, and I'm not entirely sure I understand it myself. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 21:46, 15 January 2013 (GMT)

Nope. It's pretty much the same as just using #ifeq. The code stays on the page, and the section is un-editable. Problem as I see it is it's not really a #subst in the general sense so much as it just literally copies everything into the edit window. Not sure how to get around that. I'd like to be able to just click the block button and save, without the extra step of having to copy the word "Blocked" into the subject line. Seems to me there should be a way to do that - maybe using a sub-template of some kind? One template having just the warning message itself (which is transcluded onto the messages page), and the other having both the header, and a #subst of the message template. That might be the way to go actually... TheRealLurlock (talk) 23:46, 15 January 2013 (GMT)

Haha! That does work. Only problem is you can't preview (and thus change) the message before posting it. If you want to try it out yourself before we implement it on all of them, please do so. I think this might be a valid way to go. TheRealLurlock (talk) 23:54, 15 January 2013 (GMT)

That was actually going to be my next suggestion, but I wasn't sure if it was worth the trouble. I'll take your word for it that it works, cuz I have a bunch of RL things I need to go do right now. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 00:16, 16 January 2013 (GMT)

(←) On a related subject, did you see this. If you agree, could you work your magic to add this to the messages page. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 19:10, 17 January 2013 (GMT)

So I kind of floated away from this discussion as my classes started up, sorry! Anyway, the changes seem okay, but would it be possible to make all the messages editable when you're posting them, like the Welcome message is now? Currently I either have to copy/paste from the template itself or go back and edit it after the page is saved, otherwise my signature is all fubar. It also makes it a bit difficult to customize the message (I typically like to add block times and such when applicable) before posting it, which is something we've always encouraged. ⇠eshe^talk 15:35, 29 January 2013 (GMT)

The Welcome message is the same as it ever was - you'll notice you still have to put a header on manually for that one (or any of the "Notice" ones.) Unfortunately, I don't see any way of having it both ways - either you have to manually add the header, or you can't edit the message until afterwards. What we could do is add a new block message which is customizable like they used to be, but you'd still need to add the header yourself. 99% of the time, there's no need for this, as most of our blocks are indefinite blocks on spammers, so the boilerplate form letter is good enough. (It's not like anybody is likely to ever look at those anyhow.) I think overall, the method that saves work in 99% of use cases is preferable. But if you really want, we can add a customizable one for the rare cases where you need it. TheRealLurlock (talk) 23:35, 29 January 2013 (GMT)

Hmm...in that case, I guess what I'm saying is I'd rather have to add the header manually than go back later to fix my signature. I wouldn't even raise the issue except that I'm pretty sure the people who use the warnings and block notices the most have custom sigs and are running into this problem. It's not a big deal ultimately...it just seems to be adding a step to what (for me) used to be a very quick process. ⇠eshe^talk 15:50, 30 January 2013 (GMT)

I would have to agree with Eshe here. It's not just the signature either, sometimes all you want to change is one or two words, and the extra steps of finding the template and copying from there seem much more bothersome than simply writing the header in yourself. Writing the header in yourself isn't really a problem that's difficult or takes a lot of time to do. — ABCface^◥ 15:54, 30 January 2013 (GMT)

Well, I added in the custom messages for those cases. I'm just trying to make it so that these spammer-block messages, which represent by far the vast majority of cases, are easier. You might have to go to a little extra effort in those rare instances when a customized message is needed, but this is almost never the case, so overall, this method saves the most work. The only other somewhat-common use-case I can see are temporary blocks put in by Blockers who can't do a full block. Maybe we could put in another message specifically for them, and that would cover all but the most extremely rare cases, which could then use the custom messages I've put in place. And since in that case, the only thing that would be variable would be the time of expiration, that field could be added as a parameter to the subst'ed template, so you could enter it in while you're giving the block message, no need to change anything else... TheRealLurlock (talk) 16:37, 30 January 2013 (GMT)

Okay, I've put an adjustable temporary block message template in place, does that work for people? I'm not sure what problem could occur with the custom signatures - I've used one forever and it works fine in block messages. Does it somehow fail if you try to do fancy stuff in the signature? That sounds to me like a problem with the signature more than anything else. TheRealLurlock (talk) 16:51, 30 January 2013 (GMT)

The temporary block message is a really nice addition, thanks for that. If the whole point of these changes is to make the spammer-block messages easier, can we change the warning messages back to how they used to be? That way, the block messages would be faster/easier like you want, which is the reason for the changes made, and the warnings could still be customized easily like before. — ABCface^◥ 19:20, 30 January 2013 (GMT)

Sure, that's reasonable, I guess. I wish the InputBox plugin had the option to specify a header (I looked it up, it doesn't.) - then we wouldn't have to jump hoops like this to make things work. Really, I'm considering removing the Block Messages from the UESPWiki:Messages page anyhow. When you block somebody, you automatically get another screen with Block Messages to choose from. You'd pretty much never need to go to the Messages page to find a Block Message unless you screwed up somehow. Though I suppose leaving them there makes it easier to edit them. But if we just as a general policy make it so that Block Messages default to boilerplate and not shown on the Messages page, while all others are more easily editable, and are shown there, it'd be more consistent. TheRealLurlock (talk) 01:08, 31 January 2013 (GMT)

(←) That sounds like a good idea to me, especially given the reason you mentioned. Since you automatically get the screen with Block Messages after blocking someone, there's not a large need for them to be on the regular Messages page. I'd agree with that change being made. — ABCface^◥ 01:14, 31 January 2013 (GMT)

Alright, so, I'm totally fine with the block messages not being on the messages page, but would it be possible to change the block messages back to being editable too? Those are the ones I use most of the time. Thanks! ⇠eshe^talk 14:41, 8 February 2013 (GMT)

Honestly, how often do you need to edit them? I did put a custom editable message on there for those rare cases, but I think for the vast majority of blocks, there should be no need to edit the message. I'll agree it's less than ideal. I'd prefer it if we could somehow fix the InputBox plugin to place the headers automatically. The other possibility - and I'm all for this one - is that we eliminate the requirement for block messages to have a header section. I mean, really, there's no benefit to it in most cases as those messages will never be seen by the blocked user anyhow, since they're pretty much all spambots. If we stop insisting that block messages have their own section with a header, it eliminates the need for these templates to be subst'ed in the first place and we can go back to the way things were before. In the rare instance where you're blocking somebody who isn't just another spambot, then you can add a header if you really want, but that happens so infrequently it's not that big a deal. TheRealLurlock (talk) 22:15, 8 February 2013 (GMT)

Honestly, it's almost every day. I go through at least one spammer a day, on average, and with my signature it looks weird. Whether or not block messages need headers is debatable, I suppose, but the old version didn't have automatic headers, didn't conflict with custom signatures, and didn't need to be substituted. I don't see much point fussing over it though, so I've just removed the offending dashes and we can call it a compromise ;). ⇠eshe^talk 00:25, 13 February 2013 (GMT)

Oh, I was wondering how these were messing up your signature. I get it now - that's actually a good change I think. Should probably do them all like that for consistency. I was thinking you were making some kind of edits to the message itself, which seems unnecessary. Anyhow, worrying about how a block message looks to a spammer who will probably never see it seems like it shouldn't be that big a deal. I was just trying to figure out how this was causing you problems. I think this change should reduce the amount of effort required by everyone when dealing with spam. TheRealLurlock (talk) 01:30, 13 February 2013 (GMT)

Marker IDs

In case you didn't know, adding a marker id adds a location to the Places Discoverable category. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 04:30, 18 January 2013 (GMT)

Ugh, sometimes I think these uber-templates do a little bit too much automatically. Oh well, it just so happens I just created this nice template for just such a purpose. Works nicely here. TheRealLurlock (talk) 04:35, 18 January 2013 (GMT)

Future RPG

I hope you are lucky with your RPG, maybe I will play it - hopefully, don't fill me in with everything, but where did you get your inspiration? :D

AlphaArgonian182 13:27, 20 January 2013 (GMT)

P.S I have no intentions of stealing your ideas, I am awful with games technology design!

It's far too big a project for me to describe it all here, but it's (very) loosely based on Greek mythology, most notably the legend of King Midas, and basically what happens after his death (which doesn't take long since everything he touches turns to gold, including food and drinks.) The twist is that the curse doesn't even end on his death - even touching his corpse turns things to gold, and after finally burying him in the ground (no easy task because he had to be carried without being touched), the whole earth is starting to turn into gold as well. It deals with, among other things, the complete devaluation of gold (peasants use it for decoration because it's now so common); a secretive guild of wizards doing everything in their power to keep people believing that magic can only be performed by a select few when in fact anybody who can read can learn magic - literacy is somewhat uncommon though; a few interesting twists involving various forms of time travel - people turned to gold are not dead, but can be revived decades later as if no time had passed; and prophecies misinterpreted and gone awry. Over it all is a pantheon of gods which ties into alchemy, metallurgy, astrology, and magic, and kind of binds everything together to set a backdrop. It was written first as a short novel, though with the game mechanics in mind so that it will directly tie into the story.

Gameplay itself is likely to be similar to the ES games, as those have been my obsession for some time now. Though the stress would be more on magic and less on physical combat (which is not to say there wouldn't be any - you could go completely without magic if you wanted.) The magic system is designed such that no two spells are equivalent, and no spell ever becomes obsolete because a better one comes along later - every spell must be useful from when you first get it until the end of the game. (They improve with skill, basically.) At the same time, no spell is ever required. For any given task, there should always be multiple ways of tackling it, both magical and otherwise. I give as a simple example - you're stuck at the bottom of a deep hole. What can you do? Using magic, you could: cast a flying/levitation spell to get out, cast a spell which causes vines to grow up the side that you can climb on, cast a spell to fill the pit with water and swim out, cast a spell to create boulders to climb out, cast a spell to teleport out, cast a spell which makes it possible to pass through thin layers of solid objects, and find a secret passage on the other side of the wall of the pit, etc. Without magic, you could attempt to simply scale the wall the old-fashioned way (carefully finding handholds and footholds), fire a grappling hook from a bow, dig your way into that secret passage with a shovel, or just collapse enough of the walls to fill up the hole with dirt and climb out, throw a rope up to your buddy at the top, etc. Always multiple solutions.

Anyhow, it's a long term project, so don't look for it any time soon. Right now it's pretty much just me, and this kind of thing would need a pretty big team to put together. But it's a design I've been working on for quite a while now. TheRealLurlock (talk) 17:31, 20 January 2013 (GMT)

Cool! Like I said...good luck! AlphaArgonian182 20 January 2013, 19:37 (GMT)

Spell Icons

Are those spell icons just chosen by you? Or are they based in the game data? Also, are they just being displayed on the spell's page? Or do they get linked elsewhere? Jeancey (talk) 02:44, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

It was an aesthetic choice. I didn't like how empty those corners looked on some spells, so I chose some appropriate icons to balance the layout. It's not official or anything - none of those spells actually have tomes, but then there's nothing in the layout that says that corner must contain only tome images. They're not shown anywhere but on those specific pages, so it shouldn't confuse anything. TheRealLurlock (talk) 02:48, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

The tome icons I can understand, but I question the icons used on spells such as Vampiric Drain and Arniel's Convection. Random item icons really have no place there. We should either stick to the tomes, or leave the spells without an icon. —Legoless (talk) 17:45, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

I'll admit that a few of them were a stretch. But they're not "random items". They're all closely associated with the spells they're used on. On Conjure Dragon Priest, I thought the Konahrik mask was appropriate, because that's how you get that spell. Likewise you get Summon Arniel's Shade when you pick up Keening, and you get Summon Arvak from returning Arvak's Skull. For the others, which are mostly specialized limited-use spells, I chose what you need to use the spells for. You use Arniel's Convection on the Warped Soul Gem, you use Summon Unbound Dremora to get a Sigil Stone, you use Vision of the Tenth Eye to find the Master Illusion Tomes. The Vampiric Drain icon was the most iffy, but I didn't want it to be the only blank one. If you have a better suggestion, I'm all ears (eyes). If the icon in the corner were labeled "Spell Tome", or in any way indicated that this spot is only to be used for the Spell Tome icon and nothing else, I could see why there'd be a problem with it. But it's just a picture in the corner, which in no way implies that it must be a spell tome image. I just think the layout looks really off-balanced if that area is left blank. TheRealLurlock (talk) 17:56, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

I'll admit, the items related to obtaining the spell make more sense. The Vampiric Drain icon still irritates me (especially since the Blood Potion isn't even vanilla), but if it's the only spell without a related icon then I guess it's best to let it slide. —Legoless (talk) 18:25, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

Move Files Delete Redirects

Hi,

I feel like there's probably a reason you said there's no reason to change to policy here: UESPWiki:Community_Portal#Move_File_Rights And I'm fairly wiki-illiterate in many ways. I think I got excited about "helping," which may have diverted energy from my thinking! What's the best thing to do? Or it's not really important? Thanks. --JR (talk) 07:56, 31 January 2013 (GMT)

My only point was that we were discussing whether or not a non-patroller/admin should be allowed to propose deletion on files or articles. I was simply clarifying that anyone can propose deletion on whatever they want, which has always been the case. Whether something is technically eligible for deletion is an entirely separate debate. But as long as all deletion proposals must be reviewed by an admin (since only admins can actually perform the deletion), there is no need for any kind of restriction on who can or cannot propose deletions. TheRealLurlock (talk) 15:36, 31 January 2013 (GMT)

I get it. I think it arose for me when I tried to rename a few images recently. I did my best to find and follow instructions or guidance on my own to possibly spare someone else a little work (as a general principle, because I've been making enough edits lately, that I should pay more attention to learning more and so making some things more efficient. After I went through that process of trying to figure things out, several people said, "Oh we've mostly been speeding them, in practice" and I think someone changed my prods to speedys, and/or had to fix mistakes I made. No big deal that, but I thought, well, maybe I can write a clearer guide for the next person who comes along in my boots. Thanks.--JR (talk) 15:55, 31 January 2013 (GMT)

Gem Maps

Hiya TRL! I just wanted to say that these maps you've been adding for the unusual gems are pretty neat. Good idea! :) — ABCface^◥ 20:39, 1 February 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, I'm trying to think what else they could be used for - The Litany of Larceny items come to mind, possibly pieces of Mehrunes' Razor (though some of those are carried by NPCs), and other unique treasures that are found in fixed, non-radiant locations. We are kind of lacking in general interior map images for Skyrim - that could be a whole new project at some point... TheRealLurlock (talk) 20:45, 1 February 2013 (GMT)

When Dragonborn comes out for PC, it could be really useful to have them for the Pain in the Necklace quest, for all the East Empire Company Strongboxes (there are 33). Of course, many of those are in exterior locations, so that may be more difficult to do since the local maps wouldn't be as clearly defined. Can't think of any other uses off the top of my head, but either way, I like the way you've done them for No Stone Unturned. Neat idea. — ABCface^◥ 20:58, 1 February 2013 (GMT)

Sounds like another good place for this sort of thing - though the exterior locations would indeed be complicated. Possibly I could come up with some other format for those - maybe just show a circle of map around the location. We'll see in a few days, I guess. I know very little about DB since I don't have an Xbox. Also made me think of the various treasure map locations, which would have the same problem. Also other unique places like Yisra's corpse might be appropriate for that. (Wouldn't do this with most random corpses, but it's relevant given the free (and respawning) Flame Cloak tome near her.) TheRealLurlock (talk) 00:37, 2 February 2013 (GMT)

Maven (grand)mother

I'm contacting you about this since you changed the info on the articles. I just want to point out that, as I've stated on the talk page, that there is more evidence of her being mother of all three. I think more discussion regarding this necessary ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 15:30, 7 February 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, unfortunately, there will always be a question here, because they were inconsistent with the way they set things up. I'm going through the relationships now, and finding other things that are screwed up, like Clinton Lylvieve is set up as Azzada Lylvieve's father instead of his son. That one is clearly an error, but the Black-Briar situation is less clear. I think people might refer to her as "Mother" because she is the matriarch of the family, rather than their literal mother, but I can't back that up. Certainly Hemming appears to be more than just a little bit older than Ingun and Sibbi, and his claim that they are his children rather than his siblings can't be ignored. I'm thinking now that given conflicting information, we need to present both possibilities, along with the evidence on both sides, rather than claiming one or the other to be correct. My edits at least made note of the fact that there was a discrepancy, which was not shown on the previous versions of the page. We could do a partial revert to the older arrangement, but leave the Bug notes stating that there is some confusion over this, which is pretty much all we can do given the conflicting evidence. TheRealLurlock (talk) 19:52, 7 February 2013 (GMT)

I suppose presenting both is a good idea, I just didn't like the thought she was the grandmother. Most evidence for her being grandmother in the game is when she's the jarl, and you'll only get to see that half of the time, and even that's if you actually compete in the civil war. It wasn't until I saw it here that I knew of this "bug" ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 01:28, 9 February 2013 (GMT)

Up arrow

Hey. I removed the line about hitting the up arrow, I really don't think it is needed in that section. Perhaps it can be added as a general console note? It just seems strange to hang that note in a specific function, because it doesn't ONLY apply to that function, you know? Jeancey (talk) 20:47, 12 February 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, only that's the only case where you can't see what you're typing, so it's a bit more relevant. Also, in the case of other console commands, you might do a bunch of them in a row, and the up arrow gives you the most recently typed one (or others if you hit it repeatedly). But when using "tm", it's very unlikely you'd be entering in other codes blindly, so "tm" is probably the most recent one. Okay, so it saves one keystroke, although I often use it multiple times in a session (if I'm taking screenshots), so I just toggle it back and forth with the up arrow. I guess it's nothing revolutionary, but it's worthy of note at least somewhere... TheRealLurlock (talk) 23:10, 12 February 2013 (GMT)

Lore Places Project

Hi there, I was considering adding my name to the LPP, and was wondering whether the status of the project is still as mentioned in the How You Can Help section, or whether, one year into the project, any of those things had been completed, or any other objectives had surfaced. Thanks, Enodoc (talk) 00:07, 14 February 2013 (GMT)

Hope you don't mind me replying, Lurlock. I've just added to the LPP page, the hidden categories that are relevant to the LPP. You might find something in there that needs some attention, Endoc. – Daric↝talk 02:15, 14 February 2013 (GMT)

There have been no changes. The goals are basically the same. —Legoless (talk) 02:30, 14 February 2013 (GMT)

OK thanks. And thanks for adding those links, Daric. --Enodoc (talk) 13:44, 15 February 2013 (GMT)

I am not finding any shortage of lore pages that could still use more information, even one page which was still written from a player point of view. However, for some reason, I was removed from the category of users working on the project and the ribbon no longer appears on my page. On further investigation, I found the entire associated category blank - nobody listed at all, with no recent edits. Should that ever even happen? LordXenophon (talk) 00:58, 29 April 2013 (GMT)

Nothing to do with me. I think RobinHood70 was doing something with the {{Ribbon}} template, which may have messed up the category. Seems to be fixed now. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 12:39, 29 April 2013 (GMT)

I haven't touched the template in over a week. It looks fine when I look on your page, LordXenophon, though I see what you mean about the category. I just forced your page to update, and now you appear in the category, but nobody else. I've done a null edit on the Ribbon template in the hopes that that'll update the category (and any other categories in the same position) properly. I'll keep an eye on it. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 18:44, 29 April 2013 (GMT)

Wooden Mask

Hey TRL. Since you added this note, might you be able to provide some input here? —Legoless (talk) 20:53, 16 February 2013 (GMT)

Emperor Parasol Moss

There is definitely moss on the Emperor Parasols in morrowind, here is an image of a morrowind parasol with moss hanging from it :) Jeancey (talk) 19:23, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

What I'm trying to make clear is that "Emperor Parasol Moss" was not an ingredient which ever appeared in Morrowind, as the previous version of that entry implied. Maybe it exists as a visual effect, but it cannot be harvested, so this statement is misleading. TheRealLurlock (talk) 19:25, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

There are two separate lore pages. This page is about the actual moss, not the ingredient. Under the alchemy section the ingredient is listed. The ingredient didn't exist in morrowind, but the plant did. Jeancey (talk) 19:27, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

I added "Moss hanging from the Emperor Parasols on Solsthiem has acute alchemical properties." which links to the alchemy lore page about the moss. Hopefully that's an acceptable compromise. Jeancey (talk) 19:33, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

The entry doesn't imply that. It simply states that Emperor Parasols are native to Morrowind, and that the moss can be found growing on them. Two separate statements. There's no need to bring up the odd, game-specific alchemical properties. We don't say that only ebony "found in the mines of Vvardenfell" can be used in alchemy, so there's no reason to assume that only the moss on Solstheim is used in alchemy. —Legoless (talk) 19:43, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

The difference is one of them is a retcon - the term "Emperor Parasol Moss" did not exist until the Dragonborn expansion came out. The fact that there happens to be moss in Morrowind that looks similar is a side-note - we don't know for a fact that this is the same kind of moss. (It's clearly different from, say Hanging Moss, so we know there's more than one species of moss in the world.) Claiming that the nameless moss found growing on nameless mushrooms in Morrowind is the same as that added in Dragonborn is pure speculation. They look similar, yes, but there's no lore to establish that they are indeed the same thing. TheRealLurlock (talk) 19:49, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

They aren't nameless. They ARE Emperor Parasols. Here is concept art from Morrowind with Emperor Parasol written in the bottom corner, Vivec's Sermons 2 and 26 also mention them by name. Jeancey (talk) 19:54, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

Okay, the mushrooms aren't nameless, but the moss is. Point still stands. TheRealLurlock (talk) 19:55, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

(←) It isn't Emperor Parasol Moss, it is Emperor Parasol Moss, i.e. the moss that grows on Emperor Parasol mushrooms. It is the same thing as saying Skin Cancer. It is cancer of the skin. There are many types of skin cancer, but it is all called skin cancer. We don't have a specific name for the moss, just like hanging moss. Hanging moss is moss that hangs, not any sort of specific species name. Jeancey (talk) 19:58, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

Except in Skyrim, Hanging Moss IS a specific species name. At least, it's different enough that it has entirely different alchemical properties from Emperor Parasol Moss. It hangs from all kinds of things - stone, trees, dirt, etc. But we don't call it "Stone Moss" or "Tree Moss". It's all the same. What makes moss hanging from Emperor Parasols different from other Hanging Moss? We don't know. Also, it's worth noting that if you look around Morrowind, you'll see that not all the giant mushrooms look the same - there may be more than one species of giant mushroom, only one of which is actually Emperor Parasol. The fact is that calling anything seen in Morrowind "Emperor Parasol Moss" is conjecture. We don't know that it's the same thing unless they say so. Otherwise you're just making stuff up. Anyhow, I've spent way too much time arguing about moss. Put whatever you want on the page, just try and keep it to the facts we can reliably confirm and avoid conjecture. TheRealLurlock (talk) 20:25, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

All the mushrooms in Morrowind are named as Emperor Parasols in the construction set. Jeancey (talk) 20:27, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

Answer Question

Hey Lurlock just wanted to let you know I answered your question about the map on that Pain in the Necklace talk page. Lord Eydvar ^{Talk|Contribs} 02:24, 19 February 2013 (GMT)

Three missing argonians

Hey! The three missing argonians are dead slaves located in Sjobal. I'm in the process of adding redirects for them now, so they should all work. Also, wind-in-his-hair is a shipmaster, but I'm not sure where yet (I haven't gotten that far). If you need any help with lore names locations on any of the pages, let me know, because I added many of them :) Jeancey (talk) 15:43, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, the only reference on the site to "Wind-In-His-Hair" currently is on Lore:Argonian Names. I'm thinking it's either a typo or a major oversight. It is kind of weird for an Argonian name - Argonians don't have hair, per se. Anyhow, that's one benefit of what I'm doing with these pages - it makes it easier to find mistakes. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 15:46, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

I agree. Wind-In-His-Hair is in the game data, but it looks like he never appears in the game, at least not that I can find. Not sure what we should do here... Jeancey (talk) 15:48, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

We have a page for Non-Existent People, that a number of these names came from. Perhaps it belongs there? Anyhow, for any lore links you see omitted, feel free to add them yourself. This is kind of a big job now that I think of it. I am not looking forward to the Dunmer page. Not only are there a ridiculous number of them, but Dunmer have two-part names, so pretty much none of the links are going to work right out of the box. There's a reason I did Altmer, Argonian, and Bosmer first, and it's not because of the alphabet. I'll probably do Khajiit and Redguard next, and then maybe Nord. But the two-part names are going to be a real pain... On the subject, I'm also wondering if the names on Oblivion:Whispers of Death should be created as redirects. At least (unlike the non-existent people) they can be encountered in the game, even if they don't exist most of the time. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 16:17, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

Actually, in the oblivion one, they can't be encountered in game. They are all found outside of Cyrodiil. I already added the lore links for the bosmer page, and I'm in the process of going through some books and finding more now. Question though, what do we do when the name appears in a lore book (i.e. in more than one game), but also in one of the games? Does it JUST go under the game section? Or does it also go under the lore section? Jeancey (talk) 16:24, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

If it's clearly the same person, I'd say have just the game link. If it's likely a different person with the same name, I can see justification for both. There are of course NPCs who appear in more than one game. (Doing Khajiits now, and there's three M'aiq the Liars.) Since they each have their own page, it's listed all three times. (Plus it's implied they may not all be the same person, especially given the 200 yr. gap between Oblivion and Skyrim - I don't think Khajiits live that long.) — TheRealLurlock (talk) 16:29, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

They might, you never know :) I have begun to pull names from books, but I'm going to take a break right now. You can see what I have so far here. :) Jeancey (talk) 19:37, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

I think M'aiq (Skyrim version) says it best - his father was named M'aiq as well as his father's father. I think there may also have been something in one of the books about it, but I think Khajiit lifespans are comparable to humans. Elves obviously live longer, and Argonians are still an utter mystery. Orcs seem to not live as long, but mainly because they insist on dying in battle while they're still strong enough to put up a good fight. The list looks good, though I can't quite parse the acronyms you're using for book titles. (I got a few, but maybe a key would help - then again if it's just your sandbox nobody else necessarily needs to understand it...) — TheRealLurlock (talk) 19:45, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

Morrowind Overhaul Project

I have begun the basic outline for a Morrowind Overhaul Project. If you can think of things that are needed, or anything else, please let me know :) You can find it in my sandbox, here.  :) Thanks in advance for your input! Jeancey (talk) 00:26, 22 February 2013 (GMT)

I wish I could help more, but I don't have MW installed on my current machine and I sadly lost the discs a while ago. Maybe one of these days I'll pick up another copy - it can't be too expensive anymore. Though I imagine it'll eventually be released for free as Arena and Daggerfall both were. Anyhow, I'll help out where I can, but anything requiring the actual game or CS I won't be able to do. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 02:12, 22 February 2013 (GMT)

Stubs

By the way, we talked about it yesterday, but we decided that not EVERY stub needs to be categorized, especially for the older namespaces where there are only a few stubs. My general view was, if there were less than 20 or so stubs for a given category, it wasn't really needed. This is slightly different for the lore namespace where there might always be more stubs, but for pretty much all the others, they don't need to be categorized. Jeancey (talk) 04:06, 25 February 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, I wasn't planning on doing the rest of them, because they're too varied to fit into a category that'd have more than just a few in it. I didn't get really specific either - it's Category:Skyrim Item Stubs, not "Weapon Stubs", "Armor Stubs", "Ingredient Stubs", etc. I just didn't like seeing those red-link categories on those pages, though I suppose we should just actually make the Uncategorized Stubs categories so they won't be red-links... — TheRealLurlock (talk) 04:10, 25 February 2013 (GMT)

Either that, or, now that all the ones that CAN be categorized, are, we could just revert the change to the stub template that added those categories to begin with... Jeancey (talk) 04:16, 25 February 2013 (GMT)

I have no objections either way. As I said on CP, it was the fastest way to point out any that might need categorization that weren't already, but I wasn't sure if it made sense to keep those categories in the long run. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 04:34, 25 February 2013 (GMT)

Block

I went ahead and temp-blocked this user even though Recent Changes shows that you're online since they're on a spree. Figured I'd skip the temporary message and let you change their block to however much longer you deem necessary. — ABCface^◥ 04:26, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

Hmm. Tough one. Technically since he/she/it vandalized my User page I'm not impartial - I forget if there's rules about that. I think I'll extend the block to a full day and let another admin decide whether more serious action is required. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 04:42, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

Ah didn't think of that. That solution sounds good. — ABCface^◥ 04:55, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

Lore names

For names that come from dialogue (just search the CSlist dial records), I added them as hover text, so {{Hover|Local Rumors in Morrowind|name}} for a name would display as name. I think that's the best way to go about it, since there isn't really a page to link to... Jeancey (talk) 19:47, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

Can we link to the CSlist then for these? The main motivation for adding these links in the first place is so that they're backed up by actual sources. The number of errors I uncovered doing this project underscores the need for verifiable references. How many of these are there anyhow? I'm not sure if there was any thorough process for finding names which exist only in dialogue, so we may be missing a bunch here. Might be a pain to try and find them all though. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 19:53, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

Just chiming in really quick here: I know there was some concern in the past about linking too much to CSList—if I recall correctly it had to do with how Google ranks pages, and there was concern that people might start ending up on CSList pages rather than on wiki pages, or something like that. I do remember Neph being really hesitant to open the thing up in the first place. I can search around more and try to find whatever it is I'm remembering, which would probably be more helpful, but...yeah, just throwing that out there! ⇠eshe^talk 20:00, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

That's a fair point Eshe. TRL, if we decide to, we can link to CSlist like this: Athrys. Jeancey (talk) 20:10, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

My take on it is this. As it is, hovering over the name produces nothing but "Local Rumors in Morrowind". You don't get the full name, or any hint whatsoever of who or where you have to go to hear this rumor. Basically, you have to take our word for it that a name exists somewhere, but you aren't even given the first clue how to begin looking for it (either within the game or on UESP). What I think we might need is a page for "Morrowind:Local Rumors" or something like that, where we list all of the rumors you can find, grouped by location, perhaps, and another section for rumors from specific people, etc. Every entry should be linkable, so we can from anywhere we want point to the specific rumor that we're referencing. Names in non-rumor dialogue might be more difficult, but if dialogue is limited to a single NPC, it should just be on that NPC's page. I think I remember somebody starting a project like that a while back, but I forget who... — TheRealLurlock (talk) 15:22, 28 February 2013 (GMT)

Place summary changes

Hey. I think that is was extremely premature of you to make a unilateral change to the place summary template in order to add your new icons without reaching a consensus first. I (and at least a few others) was under the impression that this would ONLY be for the map, and I support the use of the new icons for that purpose. However, I do not support using the icons on every page, especially since in the light colored backgrounds of the wiki pages, the white outline looks absolutely awful. Add to the fact that if we use all of these images, we would no longer be using the official, legitimate icons in any way. The icons we use currently look great in the wiki setting, and are official. Also, in the places pages, the new icons make it extremely hard to see, at least for me personally, what the icon is, see here. The other issue that was brought up to me is that this is extremely inconsiderate to people who are color blind. The old, black and white icons, have absolutely no issue there, and I think that we need to consider that not everyone can see the colors on the icons, and they may even fade into the background entirely depending on what kind of color blindness they have. I would ask you to please revert your changes to the template, and open a brand new CP discussion specifically about the use of the icons on articles in the wiki, and to keep that discussion open for at least a few weeks, or until consensus has been reached, in order to make sure that all opinions can be heard on this matter which has a drastic affect on the look and feel of the wiki. I apologize if I sound harsh in any way, but I feel very strongly that a real discussion needs to take place before this change is made. Jeancey (talk) 17:36, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

Calm down! It's just a trial run. Changing it back is as simple as one revert to the template. But we wouldn't be able to see what issues there were until we could actually see it. Worst case scenario we have some slight inconsistency for a few hours. Can you at least see what it will look like before screaming at me like this? — TheRealLurlock (talk) 18:07, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

With something like this, the only way to see how it looks is to have a full-scale trial, by temporarily changing the wiki. Especially with this kind of discussion, it's difficult to compare the current setup with a new one without being able to see what the new one would look like. After a few tweaks here and there, it'll either remain, because people have voted in favor of it, or changed back. • JA^T 18:12, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

Thank you for understanding. Though I've reverted it because of all the screaming. I hate being in the middle of a giant internet shouting match, but I didn't see any other way to see how it would look without just trying it out. I apologize to everyone for trying to take a little initiative, but it seemed nobody was interested in even discussing it anymore. Apparently I was wrong there. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 18:30, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

Hello!

You just beat me to blocking those bot :(. How have things been? I haven't talked to you in a few years.--Ratwar (talk) 12:43, 16 March 2013 (GMT)

Heh, I was about to say the same thing! Though you didn't take nearly as long a break as I did from the site (checking recent contributions), but I've been pretty active again for the past year. Had to take some time off because I went back to school and got a Masters (in Interactive Entertainment). Now I'm in the post-graduation job-search frenzy mode trying to land a programming gig at a decent game company (no word back from Bethesda, sadly). Anyhow, good to see you're still around. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 12:50, 16 March 2013 (GMT)

Lore Place Summary Template

Not sure if you're watching the LPP talk page, but I've been updating the template in my sandbox based on your suggestions in the How to Help section of the LPP project page. I'd appeciate it if you could look over my changes, and see if they fix the issues that you brought up, before I make the changes to the main template. Thanks! --Enodoc (talk) 15:05, 8 April 2013 (GMT)

I'll be honest, I haven't really got the time to look thoroughly at this. At a glance it looks alright though. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 12:34, 9 April 2013 (GMT)

Fair enough, thanks for getting back to me. I'll make the changes to the template after I've tested it a bit more, and if any issues come out afterwards we can address them then. --Enodoc (talk) 18:13, 9 April 2013 (GMT)

Foyadas

Moved to Community Portal

Happy Birthday!

Huge birthday greetings from Denmark – may you have a good day with lots of edits! ☺--Krusty (talk) 05:47, 17 April 2013 (GMT)

I'd also like to wish you a happy birthday! {{{something_clever}}} • JA^T 06:31, 17 April 2013 (GMT)

Happy birthday! --Holomay (talk) 07:07, 17 April 2013 (GMT)

Happy birthday, Lurlock! – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 07:23, 17 April 2013 (GMT)

Happy birthday from China! Dreamshadow (talk) 07:43, 17 April 2013 (GMT)

Happy Birthday! ^_^ — Kimi the Elf ^{(talk | contribs)} 11:44, 17 April 2013 (GMT)

You have been given a cupcake! Happy birthday, eat cake Happy birthday, eat cake Happy biiiirthday, eat caaaaaake Happy birthday, eat cake! :D ⇠eshetalk 13:49, 17 April 2013 (GMT)

Thanks all. It's so delicious and moist. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 11:12, 18 April 2013 (GMT)

Tense Template

I was thinking about changing the tense template to be more general, like the MWTense template, but with an extra, optional parameter for namespace. If omitted, it would default to the second word in all other namespaces except lore, or, if the namespace is provided, it would use the second word in JUST that namespace. What do you think? Are there any situations that I may have missed? Jeancey (talk) 20:10, 22 April 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, I was just thinking about that, see: UESPWiki:Community_Portal#Tense_vs._MWTense. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 20:12, 22 April 2013 (GMT)

Invitation to join a translating team.

Please help us translate this Dear Lurlock, You are invited to join a team that will be attempting to translate the unknown language on the Word Wall in the 6th Chapter of the Black Book Waking Dreams, the Word Wall that gives the third word ( D3V ) of the Dragon Aspect shout. There are strange, moving words behind the Dragon Language text on the Wall, written in an unrecognisable language. The Dragon Language part of the Word Wall has already been translated. It is the moving words in the unrecognisable language that this project hopes to translate. This project will be happening in my sandbox, which is open to collaboration by invited team members. The talk page of the sandbox is open to other contributors as well. I hope to see you get involved in the project. I have hand-picked you because you may have previously been involved in Elder Scrolls language translations in the past on the wiki, particularly if you worked on the Magic Script Alphabet or the Elder Alphabet pages. Kind regards, Daric Gaersmith

— Daric✐ 12:22, 23 April 2013 (GMT)

{{Skyrim Hold}}

Hi Lurlock! {{Skyrim Hold}} has been sitting in uncategorized templates for a while, so I just went to stick a category and realized that it isn't currently in use and hasn't really been touched in several weeks. Did you still have plans for it? ⇠eshe^talk 13:35, 29 April 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, so the purpose of it was related to those color-coded icons on the place pages, but since everybody screamed at me for it, I ended up changing it back. There was a bit more discussion about the color-schemes used, but everyone kind of lost interest. This is kind of why I went ahead and did that in the first place, because it takes forever to get any input on things and nobody ever even contributes to the discussion until they're suddenly offended by me taking some initiative. This is why it's so hard to get anything done around here. People get mad if you do something without discussing it first, but then when you do start a discussion, they just ignore it and don't contribute so what's the point? Eh. Sorry about the rant, just still kind of annoys me the reaction I got from this. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 17:48, 29 April 2013 (GMT)

Eh, I understand. So were you wanting to hold on to it for now in hopes of resuming the colors discussion, or no? I find things often go a bit smoother the second time around, so it might not be a bad idea to give it another go. I was personally interested in getting the colors sorted out, especially if they're different in different places on the site. ⇠eshe^talk 17:56, 29 April 2013 (GMT)