User talk:TheRealLurlock/2008 12

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Packrat's Haven

Well, since I just got started in MW modding, this sounds like it might be something of interest for me, to increase my skill at it. I am already doing well in it, and I learn fast! LadyPegasusThere are no wrong choices in life, only different paths we choose to take. 14:22, 9 December 2008 (EST)

I'd have to dig up all my work on it, there's quite a bit involved. Been a long time since I even looked at it, so I'd have to refresh myself to remember what all there is. I wouldn't recommend it as a beginner's project, however, because there'a already a ton of stuff going on it it, much of which would be a bit advanced for someone just starting out. I'd advise starting out with something simpler to cut your teeth a bit. There's lots that can be done without much knowledge of scripting at all. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 16:37, 9 December 2008 (EST)

OK, well if you do decide to look it up, feel free to holler at me, it is hard to explain but I am new and yet not.LadyPegasus - There are no wrong choices in life, only different paths we choose to take. 06:33, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Trendy Hippo

Awwww, the link is not functioning? Site gone or just moved? Any chance to get an update on it? As a rampant RPG fan AND a writer, this sounds like a lot of fun to get involved in!LadyPegasusThere are no wrong choices in life, only different paths we choose to take. 14:25, 9 December 2008 (EST)

I explained what happened a few months ago, yes I should probably remove the link. The project is not dead, just on hold until I can put some real time into it. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 16:37, 9 December 2008 (EST)

new region maps are not pretty

Compare Ascadian Isles with Ascadian Isles

I'd rather have the accurate maps somewhere down the page. See my comment. Lukish_ Tlk Cnt 03:12, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Bots

I know you're probably busy, but the bot thats been annoying UESP for the past (day?) is back. --Tim ^Talk 09:34, 17 December 2008 (EST)

Got 'em. I'll say one thing for this bot though - those edit summaries sure make it easy to spot... --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 09:52, 17 December 2008 (EST)

Exactly what the hell is it with bots and always putting "FIELD_OTHER" in their summaries? Daedryon^{•T•C•E•} 00:29, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Beats me, but if I had to guess, the bot probably isn't set up to know what the Edit summary field is for, and it just gets a default message for any field that it doesn't understand. It's pretty obvious there's not much human oversight of this bot, or it would actually be doing something other than just posting nonsense. It's probably trying to post ad links and failing to get past our filters. I'm really not the expert on this, however, as has been repeatedly made clear to me on other pages. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 00:37, 18 December 2008 (EST)

The Lurlock Condition

I'm moving this here because it's got way off topic for the Admin Noticeboard.

You may remember about a year ago that we had a little chat in IRC where I asked you to "go slower" when editing? That chat came about because other admins and I were concerned about the way you rushed into edits with no apparent thought or plan. You agreed to spend more time considering your edits. Twelve months have passed and all we've got is twelve months older.

All through the next year I've been talking to people questioning the sort of changes you've made. Things like the sudden decision that wrapping in headers is bad but that abbreviations are better. No discussion. The changes to the NPC summary template to add masses of indistinguishable pictures for equipment? No discussion. Not even a hint of contrition when challenged about it afterwards. You ignored the advice on not creating Lore articles until the namespace was created. You went ahead and created categories for that move despite the fact they were marked down as a bot task. You don't even follow the deletion policy properly - there have been several occasions when you've deleted files or proposed them for deletion when there were still links.

In short, every time I see a series of edits from you these days, I think "Oh God, what's he been up to this time?" That puts you in the same category as people like DUMG, which is not where an administrator should be. When you post things like "You stole my 2nd place spot a while ago, I gotta catch up." and "Wow, I didn't even notice you'd pushed Nephele out of her spot too." it simply makes it look like you're not concerned with anything other than your position on the Active Users list.

I don't have a personal vendetta against you, but since you have ignored, again and again, the attempts by me and other people to get you to slow down, then yes I'm going to give you a "scolding". When a quiet word doesn't work, it's all that's left. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 10:28, 18 December 2008 (EST)

So far, you're the only one I've seen complaining. Nephele even agreed with my assessment of the multiple Place Summary templates. Have people really been comlaining about me behind my back on IRC? If so, I haven't seen a word of it, and most of the responses to my work have been positive. (Lukish didn't like those Region maps I did, but that was actually one of the rare cases where you agreed with me, so you're apparently not complaining about that.) In the case of the non-relevant NPCs, I saw some resistance from Lukish, but he eventually agreed with me as well. The only person who consistantly protests at everything I do is you. Do you wonder why I'm beginning to feel like this is personal? I'm really sorry that you've come to see me in the same light as DUMG, but I'd like to think that my contributions to this site have been, you know, useful? Frankly I'm insulted by the comparison to an editor that was basically a troll. So some of my work has had wide-sweeping impact. As far as most people seem to be concerned, it's been mostly positive. As Admins, I think the larger tasks typically fall to us, so I don't see what's wrong with being a little bold. Would you rather I just go around doing nothing but fixing spelling and grammar errors? We've got hundreds of people who can do stuff like that. Admins are supposed to think big. We've proven that we have a level of knowledge and responsibility to handle the larger tasks. I still don't feel that many of my edits have been that controversial to anyone except you. Show me a large group of people complaining about it and I'll step back. Does anyone else have any serious complaints about my behavior? Go ahead and air them now, I'd like to hear them. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 11:22, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Well now you're just applying selective recall. People have told you what they think plenty of times - you just never notice. The were huge discussions, especially about the NPC Summary icons and the explosion-in-a-pint-factory merc template. As for the Place Summary, even I ended up agreeing that it should be merged because you'd screwed it up so much. With being bold, there's a difference between boldness and foolhardiness. Before I started that template, I asked what people thought on the Community Portal so I could get feedback. I listened to the feedback and went ahead accordingly. You just rushed in without a thought. Being an admin doesn't give any of us carte blanche to make any changes we fancy. Anyway. You're obviously not listening, which shouldn't be a surprise. You haven't listened in a year after all. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:39, 18 December 2008 (EST)

I don't know if this'll help because I'm actually agreeing with both of you here. :)

Lurlock: I have noticed a tendency to do first, ask questions later. That's definitely not something an Admin should be doing on larger projects that may have an impact on site performance, quality, or editability (if that's a word).

Rpeh: Your tone, especially in your reply, says to me that while you may have started out being concerned about Lurlock's edits, it has become personal by this point regardless of whether your initial concern is valid.

In both cases, I think this should definitely be discussed with all of the admins for them to have input on and as such, this discussion should probably be moved back to the Admins Noticeboard where it started so that the issue can come to a final resolution of whatever form. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 13:33, 18 December 2008 (EST)

I Support You

If this situation turns into a "Let's vote to remove Rpeh or Lurlock as a sysop" type thing, I've got your back man. I personally have a thing against Rpeh, after the #Chatspike admin chose to send him my messages to him about effin' off and leaving UESP out of my problems, yet Rpeh continued to threaten me with removal from the site and our chat. It has occured to me that Rpeh cannot listen properly and does not seem to understand proper english terminology when it is used on him, so I've just chosen to bypass him at any point necessary and go to another admin other than him, if that's what the situation calls for. I'd suggest you trying the same thing, as it's worked for me. But to make a long story short, I got your back man. Daedryon^{•T•C•E•} 15:10, 18 December 2008 (EST)

I appreciate the support, but I don't think it's going to come to anything like that. I know very little about your conflicts with Rpeh and #Chatspike, other than what's spilled over onto UESP, and don't particularly want to get involved. Anyhow, I don't think this is going to become a "he goes or I go" situation. Despite our recent disagreements, I still support Rpeh (I was in fact the one who nominated him for Adminship to begin with), and I don't want to start some kind of Admin-war between us. Anyhow, I'll be leaving for vacation for a few weeks starting Monday, so hopefully things will cool down somewhat over the holidays. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 17:42, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Ah, cool, enjoy your vacation man. You deserve it. Hardest working admin I've seen so far is you my good friend. Daedryon^{•T•C•E•} 01:01, 19 December 2008 (EST)

Before you do too many

UESPWiki_talk:Morrowind_Map_Design#Maplinks_and_location_codes. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 14:32, 6 January 2009 (EST)

The irc chatroom does not work for me!

According to this page, http://www.uesp.net/wiki/UESPWiki:IRC the irc should work. Yet, I tried all the necessary steps to take, & I just can't make it work! WHY?? Please tell me. --— Unsigned comment by Freewaydog (talk • contribs) at 01:04 on 8 January 2009 (EST)

You're going to have to give me some more information if you want any help with this. Are you trying to use our Java client, or a stand-alone IRC program? If you're using the Java client, keep in mind that you will need to have Javascript turned ON in your browser, or it won't work. Certain browser plug-ins, like NoScript for Firefox (which I use myself) will prevent the Java client from running unless you specifically allow the site. (Keep in mind that the Java client is NOT hosted on uesp.net, so even if you have Javascripts allowed for this site, you'll need to allow them for the Java client's site as well.) You might be better off asking Nephele, who is responsible for the current hosting of the Java client. If you're using a stand-alone IRC program, it depends on which one, as they each work differently. If you're using IceChat, as I do, I can probably help. Otherwise, I'd just be guessing. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 01:04, 8 January 2009 (EST)

Vandal

Please check this IP address for vandalism. 201.35.78.46

tamriel rebuilt factions

Hi The Real Lurlock,

I'm theviking, the quest moderator from Tamriel Rebuilt. You recently commented on my additions to the tamriel rebuilt factions page. I'm sorry if I was a nuisance, this wasn't intended. I'll try to follow your rules from now on. I have a question too; Since there is a "People page" of every NPC in map1 and map2, I wanted to link to those pages through the faction members section. I understand that this isn't necessary for insignificant NPC's, but I still would like to link to a lot of the other NPC's. I think TR users would like it if those people pages were more complete and linking to them through the factions member section probably would help. What is your opinion on this? Thanks for the moderating,

bye, theviking.Theviking 12:51, 8 February 2009 (EST)

Well, the way we've typically done links to lists of NPCs, we've used the location pages, not the faction pages. Take a look at People in Balmora for example. Or look at Hla Oad for an example of a smaller location. This is particularly relevant in such cases as House Telvanni where there's just so many members that having the complete NPC list on the page would be ridiculous. (I have a feeling that many of the other factions will become similarly unweildy once the other TR maps start getting released, but we'll deal with that when it happens.) Whereas by contrast, a city will have a generally smaller number of people. Though there are of course exceptions. In vanilla Morrowind, we've broken up both Ald'ruhn and Vivec, Ald'ruhn by above ground/Under Skar, and Vivec by cantons. I suspect we'll probably have to do the same for larger cities such as Port Telvannis and Helnim. At any rate, once we've decided where the main lists will go, we use the Linkable Entry template around any minor characters, and then create redirects. Most of this work will probably be done by bots as it has in the past, so you don't need to worry about it. But one thing that would help is if you could figure out which NPCs are relevant and either make a list of them somewhere or create pages for them. Once we've done that, we'll know that the rest are not relevant, and thus we can go ahead with the charts and redirects. I think you can understand why we don't want to just make a page for every single NPC. With 1500+ and counting in just the 2 maps that have been released so far, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to create so many pages, when the vast majority of them would be nearly useless. (Add those to the NPCs in Morrowind and its expansions, and we've got over 4700 of them.) Compared to Oblivion's approximately 900 (+137 including Shivering Isles), and that explains why we do have a page for all the Oblivion NPCs, and not Morrowind. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 13:13, 8 February 2009 (EST)

NPC Class Categories

I've just undone all the edits you made to add an extra category to the TR3 NPCs. If you look at the Morrowind NPCs who offer services you will see that none of them have that extra category so neither should the new ones. If you're planning to add such categories to the MW ones too, I'll vote a preemptive "no" since, quite simply, the NPCs don't have the class you're adding. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 00:50, 11 February 2009 (EST)

Hmm, I happened to be going by the Tribunal merchants, which are arranged in the same way, and have been for some time. See Jeanne Andre, Fonari Indaren, etc. I saw a several like that and I assumed they were all that way. It's also worth noting that all of the Oblivion NPCs are organized in this way as well. (Except for the fact that the display names for the merchant and non-merchant are the same.) Since this data can only be seen in the CS and it's impossible for the player to see the class of NPCs, I don't see this as not reflecting in-game experience, and it's worth noting to organize the Alchemist and Alchemist Service classes together. But if you want to swing your big stick around again and change all the Tribunal pages as well, be my guest. You seem to have a need to disagree with every single thing I do around here lately anyhow, and I'm done arguing with you. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 01:12, 11 February 2009 (EST)

Doesn't reflect in-game experience? People with, for instance, the Mage Service class offer services. People with the Mage class don't. I'd say that's a fairly big in-game difference. Oblivion NPCs aren't arranged like this because there's no separate class. Again, a little thought would have indicated that it's the TR NPCs that are wrong and need fixing. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 01:36, 11 February 2009 (EST)

That'd be a nice argument, if it were true. Ardarume, Arvyn Llerayn, Procyon Nigilius, Seryne Relas, Surane Leoriane. Five NPCs with the Mage (not Mage Service) class who all offer services. Lest you think that's all there is, here's a bunch more: Drillmaster: Flaenia Amiulusus, Hasphat Antabolis, Optio Bologra. Healer: Barnand Erelie, Urjorad, Yakin Bael. Monk: Ernse Llervu. Nightblade: An-Zaw. Priest: Adusamsi Assurnarairan. Sorcerer: Chanil-Lee, Qorwynn, Skink-in-Tree's-Shade. Thief: Aerin, Celegorn, Fenas Madach. Trader: Drarayne Girith.

And you're wrong about Oblivion NPCs too. Take a look in the CS. There's several classes that have a different ID in the CS, but the name is identical. See Agent/TrainerAgent, Mage/TrainerMage, Nightblade/TrainerNightblade, Scout/TrainerScout, MerchSmith/TrainerSmith, Sorcerer/SorcererTrainer, MerchTrader/TrainerTrader, Thief/TrainerThief, Warrior/TrainerWarrior. We don't currently make the distinction on our NPC pages, but they are technically separate classes.

See here's what annoys me about you lately. I have a problem with one of your edits, I say something on your talk page or the talk page of the article in question. You disagree with mine, and you just summarily revert everything without asking or checking first to see if maybe I had a good reason. You seem to just automatically assume that everything I do is suspect. I'm getting a little tired of all this hostility I'm getting from you. It's making me afraid to do anything for fear that you'll have a different idea and just summarily enforce it as law without any possibility of discussion or input from any other editors. You just assume that you're right all the time and nobody else can argue with you. Time and time again, I've seen you enforce your will, and shoot down any counter-argument that anyone offers. This is hardly in the spirit of consensus, which you constantly accuse me of ignoring. So next time you've got a problem with me, how about you try asking me before just reverting it out of hand? You're not the only person with opinions around here, so stop acting like it. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 11:04, 11 February 2009 (EST)

See here's what annoys me about you lately. You keep on posting stuff that is plain wrong. The grand total of Tribunal NPCs with extra categories was seven. That's all. Not even all the NPCs that might have been affected. Before I undid your edits I checked two Morrowind NPCs from all the Service classes and given that none of them had that extra category. Given that weight of evidence I decided there was no point in getting involved in the long, painful and pointless discussion that would inevitably result. Instead I explained what I'd done on your talk page, got a helpful reply (along with the latest paranoia) and as a result, found one Oblivion NPC that also had a redundant category, and discovered that we could use an extra category on the NPC Summary (see Oblivion:Chapel Guard).

Now I get back from work and there's yet more attempted self-justification. Those NPCs don't offer services related to their class, which was what I meant as you well know. Services in the Mage Service class, for instance, offer Mage Services; none of those NPCs do. Your edits adding them to a different class were wrong. Just wrong. Don't try making points about consensus because that has nothing to do with it: the main purpose of the site is to provide accurate information and we revert or fix anything that breaks that without asking. As for always enforcing my will, you've even managed to be wrong there too. I acquiesced in a recent discussion with you even though I thought there were valid reasons for organising things the way I had. I've just suggested a way forward in the Lore debate that has been accepted by everybody who has expressed an opinion so far. And earlier today I posted a perfectly polite response on my talk page to something you'd spotted. Those are just three things from recent weeks.

So to summarise, I'm getting sick and tired of a) the incorrect and ill-thought-out posts you've been making in recent times, b) the way you have ignored requests from myself and other editors to take more care, and c) the paranoia I now get whenever I try to fix the mistakes you make. I mean, you were even wrong when you said "I'm done arguing with you." so there doesn't seem to be much hope here. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:17, 11 February 2009 (EST)

Paranoia? So maybe I'm just imagining that you said: In short, every time I see a series of edits from you these days, I think "Oh God, what's he been up to this time?" That puts you in the same category as people like DUMG. You claim not to be specifically targetting my edits, but in your own words, you compared me to the worst troll in the site's history. The truth is you ARE giving my edits specific attention and you HAVE apparently made this some sort of personal crusade against me, so is it any surprise when I'm starting to feel like I can't do anything around here without you berating me about it? I give up. I'm giving this site a week's vacation, to hopefully let things cool down a bit. I used to enjoy doing this, but now it just gets me angry even thinking about it. Congratulations on successfully driving me away, as you've evidently been trying to do for months now. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 17:10, 11 February 2009 (EST)

(unindenting) Guys, this is getting out of hand, and seeing two Admins duking it out and bad-mouthing each other is really really bad for site morale and professionalism. Can I suggest that Lurlock, you refrain from making any non-content changes for a while, or at least without posting about it first. And RPEH, stop editing/reverting Lurlock's work...I don't think you're the most objective person to do so at this point, so ask GuildKnight or Nephele or whomever to do it instead. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 01:08, 13 February 2009 (EST)

Thanks for the advice, but I will continue to remove incorrect material from the site whenever I find it, regardless of who posted it. To suggest that I'm not being objective is wrong and somewhat insulting. When I saw Lurlock's large series of edits I was curious as to what he was adding and took a look at a few. When I saw that he had added a second class category I was puzzled because I didn't believe other Morrowind NPCs had such a class. I spend quite a bit of time checking out other NPCs as described above, realised that the new additions went against the de facto standard, removed them and posted an explanation. At no point did I make a decision based on who had made the edits. Those undoes were fully justified and at no point did I act against the spirit of the wiki. I was simply bringing the new pages into line with an established pattern, which doesn't require a discussion about consensus and shouldn't be the cause for accusations of bias. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:16, 13 February 2009 (EST)

I wasn't calling into question the rightness or wrongness of the edits or your reversions thereof. But the fact remains that you two have had harsh words in the past, and even if you think you remain unbiased, chances are that's not entirely the case. If nothing else, disputes between Administrators, particularly those that have taken on the tone you both have here, should be resolved "behind closed doors". In that spirit, I would encourage you both to take this to private e-mail rather than making this a public boxing match. That is the spirit of the wiki that I'm more concerned about. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 05:33, 13 February 2009 (EST)

I sent a private email on the 8th. Never got a reply. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 06:41, 13 February 2009 (EST)

mentor request

ok im new to this and im suppose to ask for you to be my mentor Gohog3 02:52, 21 March 2009 (EDT)gohog3

If you would, I could also use some pointers! Thanks Scxe 12:11, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

Mentor Program

This is a courtesy message to inform you that your user profile has been removed from the list of mentors at UESPWiki:Mentor Program, and also to request that you remove the "Mentor" userbox on your user page, if applicable. If this userbox is not removed within one week from the date of this notice, an administrator will remove it. Please visit the Mentor Program page to see the expectations of mentors. If you believe you satisfy the expectations of Mentors, then please contact the user who posted this message. The reason you were removed from the list is: "Mentors are expected to have the email function enabled or to be a regular participant in IRC." –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:14, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

Dead Sea Scrolls

I don't know if you knew about this... but the Elder Scrolls are actually a re-named version of the Dead Sea Scrolls... and that the company wanted to do a fictional representation of the Dead Sea Scrolls... they just couldn't use the name Dead Sea for the games.... but you can find info on this on Google!!!

I will try looking for more and easier ways to link this info to them so that you may take a look!!! Orrr ^^; you could look for them yourself whichever takes your fancy!!!

Disappearing Skull of Corruption

Discussion moved to Oblivion talk:Skull of Corruption--S'drassa ^•T2M 00:23, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Tags on your user page

Hey I'm kind of new on UESP I've been using it for ages but new with the profile and stuff. I was just wondering how you get those tags that say "This user is knowlegdeable of: Shivering Isles" for example, cause I know heaps and I just want to be able to get it out there. ??? Dayne 19:10, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

We have a full collection of Userboxes available to users. Simply type {{User ShiveringIsles}} to get:

This user is knowledgeable about Shivering Isles.

There are links to all (or most) of our userboxes here, as well as a guide to making your own. Dlarsh^(T,C) 19:27, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks man Dayne 20:53, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Map of Tamriel

This one: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:TamrielMap.jpg As you are the creator of it, would you mind uploading it to Wikipedia? It would be a great asset on the Elder Scrolls page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls