User talk:The Silencer/Archive 2012 1

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This is an archive of past User talk:The Silencer discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Welcome[edit]

Hello! Welcome to UESPWiki. It's always good to have new members. If you would like to help improve any of our pages, you may want to take a look at the following links:

If you, on the other hand, would like to spice up your userpage, take a look at this link:

  • Userboxes: near complete list of userboxes, including a guide to make your own

When you're editing, it's always a good idea to leave edit summaries to explain the changes you have made to a particular page, and remember to sign your talk page posts with four tildes ~~~~. Also, the "show preview" button is a great way to view the changes you've made so far without actually saving the page (our patrollers really appreciate it!).

I also noticed you created a talk page for an unregistered user. Please refrain from doing this in the future.

Feel free to practice editing in the sandbox or discuss the games in the forums. If you need any help, don't hesitate to contact one of our mentors. Have fun! --SkoomaManiac 00:46, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

OK. Just getting a feel for editing, thought I was creating my own talk page. — Unsigned comment by The Silencer (talkcontribs) on 4 March
It's ok! We all have to start somewhere :) —SkoomaManiac 01:01, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Order of spells on effect pages[edit]

When changing the order of spells, I notice you've been posting your reason on the talk pages. You only need to put the reason in your edit summary--it's short enough to fit into the box, and some pages are already sorted by skill level, so I doubt there will be issues with it. --Velyanthe 00:01, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip, didn't want to clutter main pages.--The Silencer 00:10, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Sandbox[edit]

Hey there! Just so you know, I moved the sandbox you just made to User:The Silencer/Sandbox1. I'm going to go ahead and delete the old page, which right now is just a redirect to the new one. You can link to it from the discussion at the Ebony Blade article ;). –Eshetalk 14:56, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks.--The Silencer 14:57, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Edited ebony blade before i saw your update, and with that i can see how to link to it.--The Silencer 15:05, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Stubs[edit]

Hey, I just wanted to let you know that some of the stub tags you've been removing should probably still be there. A few that I noticed in the Recent Changes are pages which can be fleshed out a lot more. I would advise not removing the stub tags unless you're sure that all relevant information is included. For NPCs, things like schedules, dialogue, what they have equipped or in their inventory, etc., should be added to pages eventually. Your other edits are quite good, so don't let this discourage you in any way. I'm just pointing out something I learned by doing the same thing myself a while back. :) ABCface 02:09, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

I hadn't thought of some of those things, inventory, is there any npc page that i could use as a basic of all that can be discoverd.The Silencer 02:37, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
I can't think of any in the Skyrim namespace offhand, since so many pages are being edited constantly, but here's an example of a random NPC page from Oblivion which shows just how much they can be expanded upon: Oblivion:Fathis Aren. They won't all end up that long, of course, but many will eventually. ABCface 02:48, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
Mabye I was a little hasty. :)--The Silencer 20:07, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
It's not a big deal at all, I did the same thing on some quest or place pages (don't remember which) a while back and had those edits reverted for the same reason, so I figured I'd mention it. You've been making quite a few good contributions to the site lately, so this isn't anything to worry about at all. :) ABCface 20:23, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
ABC, would you be kind enough to check my sandbox for serious errors, before I replace the Ebony Blade page. It mostly deals with the suggested kills section which was in serious debate on the talk page.--The Silencer 20:57, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
Sure thing. I don't know that I'm the best person to look over it, but I'll do what I can. :) I'll put my comments in the talk page for your sandbox. ABCface 02:11, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations![edit]

After confirming that you meet the requiremenets, I've made you a userpatroller. Welcome to the team! Feel free to add {{Template:User Userspace Patroller}} to your userpage. You may wish to read UESPWiki:Patrollers/Patrolling Guidelines, if you haven't already. And if you have, you may wish to refresh your memory. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me or anyone else you believe can answer. Welcome to the team! --AKB Talk Cont Mail 02:22, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Congrats, Silencer! Enjoy those tiny red exclamation points :) --Velyanthe 02:24, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Thank you, I didn't expect it to be that quick. I think it best to go slow and steady so not too many patrols just yet. look at that > The Silencer has spoken 02:34, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Yay! Congrats on the new Userpatroller position. :) I will warn ya, though, that even if you're online all the time like I am most days, there's hardly any edits in Userspace to patrol most of the time because they get patrolled so quickly. So if you don't see many red exclamation points, don't fret. It just means other User/RC patrollers are more addicted to UESP/patrolling than you. ;) ABCface 03:55, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
You scared me there ABC, I saved a page and looked at the recent changes, only to see your edit summary said warning, AHHH. Most of the recent userspace changes seem to be mine, bummer. :) The Silencer has spoken 04:39, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
I'm going to be the first to congratulate you on your promotion, it doesn't look like anyone is going to oppose. The Silencer has spoken 04:41, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
It said warning with a smileyface, though! Sorry for worrying ya, haha. And thanks, hopefully the 847 users who might have grudges against me don't all decide to vote in opposition before the week's out. :P ABCface 05:16, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

() PS: You can choose to hide patrolled edits and to hide your edits when looking for things to patrol, it might help a tiny bit when scanning the list... though there's not much to patrol in Userspace most of the time anyway, as I warned you about already. ABCface 05:19, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

I'd love to add to the pile and say congratulations too! There's few and far between any edits in the Userspace that need patrolling anymore, I for one notice that when I spend hours on end looking at the Recent Changes page. Also to Alphabetface - you keep count of all the people who hold grudges against you? :P Helenaannevalentine 05:22, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Congrats. It seems like only yesterday that I became a UP. No joke, there really isn't much to patrol, but anyway, welcome to the team and good luck in the future! --Manic 13:17, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Quest Ordering[edit]

Is there a consensus on the order of related quests on a page, or how many locations it can have before it shouldn't be included, ie Thieves Guild Skyrim:The Heist Job has 29 known locations and Merida's Beacon has 153 locations and both are radiantly assigned, alternatively The Bonds of Matrimony is set but you can choose (I support this one staying as it is). Quest ordering mostly seems random to me, as in a new one is just added to the bottom of the list, is there an order to them; the same order on the Quests page, ie Main Quest, Factions, Other. Please point me in the right direction if this has already been discussed. The Silencer has spoken 14:35, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

There's a bit of a conversation here, and I think you should add on to that one with your thoughts on how many quests should be included; no consensus appears to have yet been reached. I don't think there's ever been conversation on quest ordering, but I think that question could go along with that conversation, since they're thinking of splitting quests into radiant/not radiant sections. If we check out the MW:Seyda Neen page, they're sorted by faction, and I know someone a while ago went around adding a "vampire" category to those in the MW namespace. I don't think there's usually enough quests to split them into subsections like that, but ordering it that way might not hurt, though I'd prefer alphabetical ordering. --Velyanthe►Talk►Email 14:51, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
I usually alphabetize quests in the Related Quests section if there aren't enough for anything more structured, and I think it's a good way to go in that case. If there are enough quests for more organization, it makes sense to do so, but this should be done on a case-by-case basis using judgement calls, in my opinion. As for the radiant quest discussion, please do add your input. A consensus on this matter should be reached since it affects so many of Skyrim's pages, and the discussion has not really gone anywhere in that regard. Hopefully one more person adding their opinions will get other people to add their input as well. ABCface 15:15, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Minor Confusion[edit]

Your edit here. You marked it as minor... Did you copy-paste it from an older version or something? Or did you type it all out and mark it as minor out of habit? Just want to make sure I'm not missing anything here, because it doesn't look minor to me. --Velyanthe►Talk►Email 23:50, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

All of mine are auto minor, sorry, that took about 3 hours to compile running around the estate and watching TV, while listening to the radio. The Silencer has spoken 23:59, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
Hah, nice. I did check your contribs and all the rest are fine being minor, so don't worry about that. Was just checking. --Velyanthe►Talk►Email 00:03, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Glitch knowledge[edit]

Hello, I noticed you undo my edit about glitches, well let me tell you a story... once when I was playing Oblivion, I was trying to be cautious with bugs and such. On one page, the character page it said a glitch associated with that NPC. On the other, the quest the NPC is involved with, there was another NPC glitch that was NOT on the NPC's personal page. When you have people who have questions, left unanswered as you are too busy perfecting the individual pages, not caring for new players that do not know what to look for on a page they might not know exist. You better, for greater simplicity, add it to pages that people browse as a catch-all page for the information they are looking for, and you know, I believe the Glicthes page deserves ALL glitches under various categories so players can browse on ONE page all the glitches in the game and what to look out for. Think about the players and you might attract more users than the offical laggy wiki. — Unsigned comment by 99.169.161.243 (talk) at 03:34 on 2 April 2012

I undid your edit because it did not fit within the guidllines for the page, adding all glitches to that page would make it incomprehensible. I do care about new users as it says on my userpage. If you have questions then leave them on the talk pages and someone will answer and your not really a new user going by your contributions. The Silencer has spoken 03:42, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Tch, take a look at Oblivion: Generic Magical Weapons and dont' tell me that looks incomprehensible. I am not a new user, true but I care for the safety of my gaming experience, as do all gamers to fully enjoy the game. So, if your guidelines don't have any reference of putting important/vital/caution tags or notes, that tells me it needs some serious updates. C'mon not putting near game breaking glitches on a relevant page? Sure it wasn't gamebreaking, but what if be in the future? it will be on one insignificant page, that no one checks as they do not know about it.— Unsigned comment by 99.169.161.243 (talk) at 03:51 on 2 April 2012
Your argument is invalid. Individual glitches and bugs go on individual pages. This is the policy. If you disagree with this, take it up on the Community Portal. —SkoomaManiac TalkContribs 03:56, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Fine, then at the very least reference the pages(aka clickable links to the pages) in the glitches section if this problem comes up again — Unsigned comment by 99.169.161.243 (talk) on 2 April 2012

() (ec) If you mean Oblivion:Generic Magic Weapons, then that is a nicely layed out page, but the glitches need more detail. Check out Skyrim:Blood on the Ice and tell me if they should all go on the glitches page, there are still more bugs being discovered for that quest. Any gamebreaking glitches should go on the page, but thats hardly going to help someone coming to find out what has just happened to their game. And sign your posts. The Silencer has spoken 04:03, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

IP user, if you wish all glitches of any sort to be listed on the general glitches page, then feel free to make the request here with your reasoning. As of now, Silencer is correct in that, if the glitch fits on another page, it goes on that specific page and not the general one. --Velyanthe►Talk►Email 19:14, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Residents?[edit]

A lot of the residents you have been putting into the articles are just replications of info from the {{Place Summary}}. Sleeping Giant Inn is a good example. I don't believe adding these are necessary, and they should probably be removed. Obviously, if they aren't listed in the template, they should be. But do you think it's beneficial? elliot (talk) 01:58, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

I was informed that the occupants bit is only for enemies and such in caves. Residents as a separate table seems to be the way to go, for example Jorrvaskr, could we put all of them into the place summary? The Silencer has spoken 02:05, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
If you mean the relationship info then some need a reason to why they live there imo. The Silencer has spoken 02:11, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
No, not occupants. The information at Sleeping Giant Inn is a prime example. Delphine, Orgnar, and Sven are all listed twice. As I already said before, if they don't fit into the template, then they should be added in a table. But there is no reason to duplicate the information. elliot (talk) 02:14, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
Sven isn't listed, he has his own house, its Embry the town drunk who lives there. It would look wierd having the only 'resident' as the drunk. The Silencer has spoken 02:17, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
I overlooked that. However, Warmaiden's is another example. elliot (talk) 02:20, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
Thats why I didn't include a second column, but what about The Drunken Huntsman where only 2 are listed but 5 live ther. It's duplicating info I know, but I think it's appropriate. The Silencer has spoken 02:26, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
If they are listed in the summary, they probably shouldn't be listed again. If there is more than what is listed, then they should all be listed in a "Residents" section. elliot (talk) 02:28, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

() I would agree with that except then pages would look different, some info duplicated and some not. The Silencer has spoken 02:32, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

If you are going to continue adding this information, I thought I would point out that several pages already have sections titled 'NPCs Living Here' (see: Mor Khazgur). I think it would be best to keep consistency with the section titles across the various pages if they contain the same type of information, but that's just my opinion on the matter. ABCface 03:58, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
It just sounds so formal that way but I will change to be consistant. The Silencer has spoken 04:01, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
It doesn't really matter which one stays in place, as long as it's consistent. I would say, whichever one there's more of already, change the others-- that way, there's less to change. And if you prefer to keep the one there's less of, be prepared to make more changes. :) ABCface 04:16, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Legate = template?[edit]

I would never have expected or realized. — Unsigned comment by SFK363 (talkcontribs) at 10:34 on April 11, 2012

If you don't have the CK to check, you can use CSList. Here's the info on the Legate, scroll down and it says who uses the template. If it's a template it's typically not used in-game as its own character. Vely►Talk►Email 15:17, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

How do you know..[edit]

How do you know for the quest blood on the ice, the murder is suppose to happen after 2am? Is this seen in the game script? cause it's not shown in any in game dialog.50.99.131.84 06:10, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

The in-game dialogue says at night. Logic says that someone intending to get away with murder will not do it when there are lots of people around, and some people leave the inn at around 1am and walk home. An acceptable change might be late at night, but it definately shouldn't occur during the day, which is already noted. The Silencer has spoken 13:32, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Believe it or not, I've actually seen it occur at like 6 or 7 AM. I think it's the fourth time you enter the city by fast travel that it happens, but with all the bugs this quest has, who the hell knows for sure? I sure don't. ThuumofReason 14:26, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
They're referring to the last murder, when you catch the killer, not the murder scene which starts the quest. ABCface 14:29, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Also, TheSilencer's reasoning may not be correct/relevant, but the quest page already has a note (the very first one in the notes section) which states that it can happen at any time during the day. I've done this quest five times now, and had it happen during the day every single time, with no adverse effects. Regardless, it's already noted in the Notes section of the page, and I'm not going to edit war over it on the page. If it needs to be changed, a discussion should be started on the talk page for the article. ABCface 14:36, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Wuunferth says patrol the stone quarter at night, but it starts as soon as you exit the palace, day or night. The Silencer has spoken 14:38, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

() If it helps, the Final Victim patrols the Stone Quarter starting at hour 20 (8 at night) and walks around for 12 hours. That's also the time Calixto stalks her. I can't find info on when he attacks, necessarily, but I assume it's sometime in those 12 hours. If anyone wants to double-check, the packages are MS11FinalVictimWalkAroundStoneQuarter20x12 and MS11CalixtoStalkFinalVictim20x12. Vely►Talk►Email 14:50, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Etymology[edit]

Just wanted to point out this recent conversation, in case you haven't yet seen it. So, unless there's objections, we're looking at leaving obvious etymologies on certain pages.

"Severe Magic" sounds like it would fit a Night Mother (Night Mothers being magical and killing being severe), though I haven't been certain about that. But removing it on the basis of simply being an etymology looks like it shouldn't happen anymore. Vely►Talk►Email 00:12, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I saw that discussion start but am 50:50 on the subject, so I was going to let it conclude and follow the decision, but I missed the conclusion. PS why isn't my talk icon working vely :P . The Silencer has spokenTalk 00:20, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Your quotes[edit]

Quotes, a question I have some quotes that I would like to put on my user page from time to time, on a rotating system. Is there some way have this done automatically, so it changes itself to another one, or must it be done manually? The quotes are here if you want to have a peek. The Silencer has spoken 23:29, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

I noticed your recent edits to your quotes, and I decided to write some code to automatically switch between the quotes, just for fun. Here are two versions: the first has comments to make it easier to understand what I'm doing, and the second is more compact. Both have the exact same results.

If you want to use this, what you do is make a user page (for example, User:The Silencer/QuoteGenerator), copy and paste whatever above code you want, and then put the following code on your user page:

==Quotes==

{{User:The Silencer/QuoteGenerator|x}}

Where x is the number of quotes you have. When you want to add more quotes to the list, just edit your /Quotes page and add <br>{{DragonFont|... at the beginning - you can see many examples of this already on your page. • JATalk 00:57, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Jak, I don't understand what any of that is doing, but it seems to work. Now, does it automatically change the quotes at certain times, or do I need to do anything else? And thanks. The Silencer has spokenTalk 01:09, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
That's okay, the code is pretty complex. Basically, every time someone visits your user page they get a different quote. The random number is based on the current hour, minute, second, and year, which is about as random as it gets. Also, you're almost there. On your user page, you put {{User:The Silencer/QuoteGenerator|x}}. You need to replace the x with the number of quotes (I count nine). • JATalk 01:13, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for doing this. So if I add any more quotes I just up the number on my page, and nothing else?. The Silencer has spokenTalk 01:18, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
That's all you have to do. And you're very welcome - it was fun :) • JATalk 01:20, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

() This is a wonderful template that I am also going to use :P

Question, how does it tell where the separation of quotes is? Vely►Talk►Email 01:25, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

(ec) Same ? does it matter about the {{DragonFont or just the <br> to add a new quote section. I was thinking of using other languages eg daedric. "It was fun" mmm... The Silencer has spokenTalk 01:26, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
Velyanthe: They are separated with <br>s. You put this at the very beginning of each quote or block of quotes, as The Silencer did. And make sure to switch the line that says {{User:The Silencer/Quotes}} to {{User:Velyanthe/Quotes}}!
Silencer: All that matters is the <br>. You can put whatever you want as the actual quote. • JATalk 01:30, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
Elliot clued me in on another, much easier way of doing this. One of it's main advantages is that you don't have to define the number of quotes every time you add a new one. If you want, I can set it up for you, but if you're okay with what you have then that's cool too. • JATalk 03:14, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
Go ahead and change it, I have to go to work soon. The Silencer has spokenTalk 07:29, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
Changed it. The /Quotes page is more or less the same, except that this time you have to indicate the next quote with a | (pipe) character. Also, you can probably mark /QuoteGenerator for deletion using {{Speedydeletion}} • JATalk 16:10, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Homage[edit]

Sometimes homage is pronounced without the h sound (as hearth), though that's not always the case. Thus, it's grammatically correct either way. Vely►Talk►Email 23:04, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Never having known it to be pronounced without an h, and refering to the online oxford advanced american dictionary, it's a homage. Though it's uncommon to actually say that, it's usually in homage to or something similar. The Silencer has spokenTalk 23:26, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Dictionary.com says it's either ([hom-ij, om-]), and I definitely very rarely hear it with the h sound. Vely►Talk►Email 23:31, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
I've always heard it pronounced with a silent 'h', meaning the first sound is a vowel, and therefore uses the article "an", like "an hour". ThuumofReason 15:23, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
Americans usually use a silent h when saying herbs, which is actually correct since it was a french word (I think), but we don't. We also pronounce it as homage so I'm pretty sure either version is fine. RIM 16:59, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Easter eggs[edit]

I noticed that you recently had to remove another Hangover easter egg edit to the "A Night to Remember" article. It seems to me that if articles that had accepted easter eggs related to them had a note in the article saying this, it might reduce the number of times patrollers have to remove these redundant edits. Perhaps something like "This NPC/Quest/Place/etc has an easter egg", maybe with a link to it? What do you think? --Xyzzy 06:17, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps a hidden message in the notes section to say such a thing, as it seems the consensus is against notes of any type. The Silencer has spokenTalk 06:20, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
Heres an example of what such a hidden message might look like, for anyone who cares to comment. The Silencer has spokenTalk 06:27, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
Honestly, we've tried that before, and it didn't really work. -Kitkat TalkContribE-mail 12:30, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
Farkas and Vilkas were etymology and a discussion on the CP decided to let them go. Someone added the Vilkas one in, I just deleted the stop warning from Farkas as I will not be the one to add it. The hidden message might be needed for heavily edited pages such as Morvunskar. The Silencer has spokenTalk 12:35, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
I wasn't starting up the Farkas/Vilkas - etymology debate (not that old chestnut again!), I was simply pointing out that when editing, feverent contributers have a tendency to ignore hidden warning or messages. Kitkat TalkContribE-mail 12:44, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

() Yes, but the message would at least be the basis upon which an undo is founded, rather than being called a "Kill-Joy" or other less polite words. It acknowledges that the egg is there but that the policy here is to have our own Easter Egg page. The Silencer has spokenTalk 12:51, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

I'll just chime in and say that hidden messages are ignored by IPs and newer editors, which are typically those that would add such etymologies. The problem is how do we deal with it? Its a bit of a waste of time to remove them on by one. I said when those two were allowed it should be all or nothing - I think those two might encourage more etymologies. One solution would be for someone to take on my abandoned porject which would solve this problem. It needs updating for Skyrim obviously before release - but I think a set up like the Easter Egg pages for something like that could work? Thoughts? --kiz talkemail 12:53, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
Sometimes I have seen hidden text work. Since I added some to Sam Guevenne saying not to remove content, it hasn't happened again.
Personally I would like a subsection for Easter Eggs under Notes, if applicable to the page. I feel that would solve a lot of problems. I have seen Eggs mentioned on a few pages, though: No-h's Picture Book of Wood, Gakkenfeld (Muffin), Bjorn.
A link to the entry on the Eggs page would keep all the information in one place, though, and (almost) all Egg discussion on that talk page.
I might take on that etymology project. Vely►Talk►Email 15:20, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
I think a more important point to make is that I believe users of the site would really like having easter eggs linked in their respective article pages. I know I would. I didn't find the Egg page until I had cleared quite a few dungeons that had them, and was disappointed that I had missed them in my playthrough. I now usually glance at the page for a dungeon before entering just to see what lies ahead (not too in-depth. I like the thrill of discovery). Having the egg linked in the notes would give me (and others) a heads up that it is there.
That being I said, I would volunteer to take on a project to add links to articles pointing to related easter eggs. However, due to my relative inexperience in editing, I would need a LOT of mentoring/assistance. I think it would be tons o' fun though. --Xyzzy 15:41, 29 April 2012 (UTC)


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