Skyrim talk:Mjoll the Lioness

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Archive 1: Nov 2011 - Dec 2012

Essential

The article mentions that this NPC is essential. Is she essential only for her quest or she will remain essential even after I finish her quest? Blackjohnbird 18:04, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

I completed her quest and have her as a follower; she is still essential. -EllEzDee 05:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

That's good news! So she is an immortal follower! Blackjohnbird 15:45, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Did you make sure by trying to kill her while she's in recovery mode, alternatively checking the data directly? 95.206.1.163 10:32, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

I fireballed her quite often, a tendency to not survive this I observed in other followers seems not to be shared by her. --Ulkomaalainen 05:53, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

She has a second quest in the form of being a target for a thieves guild radiant quest. I suspect she becomes non-essential if you've completed this second quest.— Unsigned comment by 66.183.55.229 (talk) at 23:57 on 23 February 2013 (GMT)

No, the thieves guild radiant quest that targets people (fishing) has a huge number of possible targets. It doesn't affect essential status of the targets. --Morrolan (talk) 15:26, 13 April 2013 (GMT)

Hearthfire problem

After my wife, Mjoll the Lioness, was taken for ransom and held in Embershard mine, and after I killed the bandits and freed her:

Whatever direction she faces when the cell loads, that's the direction she will be stuck facing, she no longer fights, draws her weapon/s, but doesn't fight, doesn't take a knee when injured, isn't staggered by sprinting or shouting, nothing. It's highly annoying, and I've tried almost everything. It's like the script to keep her still in the holding cell in the mine is still firing.

I've tried clearing the mine after respawn and picking the lock to the cell instead of using the key, to no avail. I've tried clearing the entire mine of bandits again, nothing. For me, this is a game-breaker, and very much upsetting, as I do not wish to start my game over, but just may. Cannot find anything anywhere about this situation coming up for anyone else, but will continue to do everything I can think of to fix it. Mikeyy (talk) 13:26, 11 September 2012 (EDT).

I have the same issue with mjoll your not alone I will also try to fInd a solution. — Unsigned comment by 97.230.220.84 (talk) at 04:37 on 20 January 2013

Does Aerin follow in Hearthfire?

Can anyone confirm that Aerin continues to follow your wife Mjoll if you move into a customizable home? I just got Hearthfire and, after moving into the Lakeview Manor, I just realized I haven't seen Aerin around very much. Haven't had much time to do extensive testing on the subject, but it would be fantastic if they removed the Aerin bug from the game with Hearthfire, and I was wondering if anyone's noticed this. ~ melgna, 22:25 7 October 2012 (PST) 108.60.123.236

I can confirm he still moves in along with Mjoll.--Silver123 (talk) 20:23, 2 November 2012 (GMT)

Not sure about Hearthfire. I recruited her in to the Blades, and Aerin didn't come along. I'm on PC with all the unofficial patches. 50.0.25.231 07:52, 19 January 2013 (GMT)

The Unofficial Skyrim Patch adds a condition to Aerin's 'follow Mjoll' package which makes him only able to follow Mjoll while in Riften. LoftedAphid86_⚕ 08:46, 19 January 2013 (GMT)

I can confirm the issue in this dlc, also with dawnward and dragonborn. so the solucion is to make aerin "disappear" or install the unoffial patch.--anon — Unsigned comment by 190.21.198.90 (talk) at 22:28 on 2 April 2013 (GMT)

The White

Many times while having Mjoll as a follower, I've heard her use a the line "The White take you!" often in combat. While many NPC's will mention deities or other Tamrielic lore topics while fighting ("Victory or Sovngarde!", "Pray to Stendarr while you can!", "Sheogorath's madness take you!"), I cannot for the life of me figure out what this "white" Mjoll is referring to is. Is it some other lesser known deity, or another name for one of the Aedra, or something completely different? Schiffy (talk) 14:04, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

I cannot offer anything about what "the white" is, but it is standard FemaleNord combat dialogue. Strangely it isn't something that male Nords will say. The only two "the white"'s that pop up in a related way, are The White-Gold Tower, and The White River. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 14:43, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

In the french version, they translated it into "The snow take you", if that's any indication... I don't see what else they could be referring to. Elakyn (talk) 16:27, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

Upon searching UESP, the first thing that turned up was Kjoric the White, but a long-since dead High King of Skyrim really wouldn't make any sense. Snow seems to make the most sense, as in leaving one in the snow to die, or leaving their body in the snow to never be found (or the Germans trying to invade Russia in the middle of winter). Schiffy (talk) 22:51, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

Huh, and here I always thought it was a reference to draugr: but I thought they were saying "The wight take you!" --Morrolan (talk) 15:24, 13 April 2013 (GMT)

Mjölnir

Are they related? She likes hammers. --194.44.219.225 09:53, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

I always found it odd that she yells "the whites take you" unitl i watched game of thrones. They call those undead "the whites" wonder if theres a connection 72.152.107.252 10:38, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

Not related as Mjoll isn't a Nordic name. For your trivia, Mjöll would be pronounced Meh+Uhl pronounced as 1 syllable. Similar to mule. A play on words by Bethseda? Sniffles (talk) 10:40, 22 March 2013 (GMT)

Mjoll code check please?

Would somebody please be so kind as to check the code/program on this NPC? Specifically her aggression level. When she first started out as a follower she was non aggressive then after about 3 days of playing she suddenly became highly aggressive acting exactly like Lydia? Is this a possible glitch or bug? Sniffles (talk) 12:06, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

She is unaggressive, as her box states. There are also no scripts which target her specifically. It could be a bug, or it could be a quest which would target a follower. What quests did you do in that time? Vely^►t►e 14:41, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

(Thanks for the quick response!) Went to do Lost to the Ages for Zephyr, walking from Riften. My char donned Mara's amulet along the way and they talked about marriage. Then went and did Missing in Action where she was unaggressive, then Meridia's quest The Break of Dawn, (still unaggressive), then Horn of Jurgen Windcaller because we were in the area - still unaggressive, then caught the wagon down to Riften and initiated the marriage. Killing time until the marriage we went to Forelhost for Siege on the Dragon Cult then got married. Started wandering west. Did the Dragon at Lost Tongue Overlook, Crystaldrift Cave and Darklight Tower. There she was acting much more aggressive. Did Unfathomable Depths at Avanchnzel where she was storming over me at each encounter. Then off to Orphan Rock to get Nettlebane for the Blessings of Nature quest. I shot 2 mages undetected then in came Mjoll. She stormed into the area taking out 2 mages and the hagraven while my character sat in sneak mode on a rock on the side of the valley. Sniffles (talk) 23:21, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

The marriage seems to be the trigger, but I really don't see why she would suddenly change her attitude. Maybe her script as a spouse, and therefore protector, overruns her basic unagressive script? Does marriage even change agressiveness? I'll test that tomorrow. Elakyn (talk) 23:31, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

As a PS, at Darklight Tower in the final boss fight I had to reload 3 times as Mjoll would go berserk, killing Illia along with Sylvia. Post marriage seems to be a factor. Also, with her packing Staff of the Familiar, Staff of Hag's Wrath and Rahgot's Staff of the Flame Wall when she went aggressive it was... impressive. Standing in the midst of an inferno laying waste to everything around her with Grimsever. But at Orphan Rock she didn't use the staves. Just waded in with her sword.Sniffles (talk) 23:46, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

Okay so, my testing has not been very conclusive for a simple reason, my followers act exactly the same no matter their agression level. I've found absolutely no difference in behavior between Mjoll (before and after marriage), Lydia, Stenvar, Derkeethus, Brelyna and Borgakh, nor with any of the followers I've had in the past. The only thing I discovered is that the reasons needed for a follower to engage combat are pretty limited, three that I managed to identify clearly:

• get commanded to assault someone (and even then, only if they want to - yes I'm looking at you Faendal),
• get attacked by an enemy that has spotted them (they don't react to cloaks or collateral damages); they will only fight back after the first hit,
• if an enemy is currently searching for/attacking the player, within a 25 yards radius and/or in their line of sight; if any of these three conditions is not met, they might not even draw their weapon.

I've tried many different configurations: attacking the enemy first, letting the enemy attack me, letting the enemy attack them, sneaking or in plain sight, etc... Their agressiveness or fighting style doesn't change any of that, which is obviously contrary to their script which dictates that Agressive followers, just like other NPCs, should attack members of opposing factions on sight. I suppose it may have something to do with sneaking, because trying to crawl through a dungeon while your follower rushes on everyone sounds pretty challenging, but it does make for some ridiculous fight scenes. Anyway, there you have it. Elakyn (talk) 13:52, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

You did some serious work there! Okay, as far as I can tell there seems to be some additional factor involved. One example comes to mind that you could check out. When entering Karthspire (Alduin's Wall quest) I had Lydia and Serana as followers along with Esbern and Delphine. At the very beginning Esbern and Delphine charge ahead with enemies yet unseen while Lydia, aggressive, stayed back with my character. This was exactly how Mjoll acted at Orphan Rock. My char undetected in sneak mode in both instances. Why did Esbern and Delphine charge ahead? What triggers this overt aggressiveness that affects some NPCs but not others? — Unsigned comment by Sniffles (talk • contribs) at 20:40 on 12 March 2013 (GMT)

(←) I did some more tests, this time with non-active followers and other NPCs and I'm not convinced about the difference between Unaggressive (0) and Aggressive (1). Given that they have the adequate Confidence, the former will only fight back when themselves are hit or one of their friends/faction members/etc.. is under attack, never initiating combat, while the latter will attack people who are hostile on sight. This is the reason why Elrindir, Vignar and Uthgerd (all at level 1 Aggressiveness) are hostile toward you when you assault someone in Whiterun while Sinmir, potential commander of the guard, does nothing. However, regarding NPC to NPC behavior, this is almost the same thing. In a combat, the only difference is that the hostiles will always get the first hit against Unaggressive NPCs; depending on the size of each party, it can be crucial or nearly useless.

Now, regarding our problem, it seems that Aggressiveness is disregarded while a follower is active, their behaviour being the one we know. The fact that Mjoll rushed on this one occasion is either that she was attacked and you didn't notice, or simply a tiny bug. The opposite happened quite often to me, no more than a week ago I was wandering with Vilkas when he got attacked by a Skeever and didn't even draw his weapon or turn around. As for quest followers, I'm confused; Esbern is Unaggressive, as are the two guys following you during Missing in Action and Mercer Frey, and yet they all rush when they see an enemy. But during the Thieves Guild questline, Brynjolf and Karliah follow you and act as normal even though they're temporary. This is all pretty messy. Elakyn (talk) 16:15, 13 March 2013 (GMT)

Messy and confusing. Esbern exemplifies this glitch-like behavior. I just redid getting Esbern in the ratway twice. The moment the Thalmor spawn, off he goes, summoning an atronach and dashing into the combat. As I always use a bow and stealth I always end up in the back seat. I'm going to venture a guess that there is a fixed distance that disregards physical obstacles like walls, floors and ceilings and once a criteria is met, possibly including the number of hostiles, the head long charge gets initiated and doesn't stop until all hostiles within distance X become neutral, knocked down, or dead. Sniffles (talk) 19:00, 13 March 2013 (GMT)

Duh! I believe I just found it. The confidence factor: Value 1, cautious, Will avoid/flee from threats unless the Actor is stronger than the threat. Is being essential a part of that formula? Is the formula, as I am guessing, only taking physical combat abilities into account? How does it calculate the destruction magic of all NPCs involved, or does it? Certainly, with her physical attack ability and carrying 3 magical staves, though she doesn't equip them and only wades in with her sword, Mjoll had overwhelming strength against the 2 mages and a hagraven at Orphan Rock. The same would apply with Esbern?? Does the game factor in allies during that calculation? Here is my guess: Magical ability is not computed. Only the ability to inflict combat damage. Mjoll is one of if not the most powerful tank NPC in the game. When the confidence exception is used in the calculation, she will charge. With Esbern who automatically summons an atronach, his combat ability + the atronach gets calculated. Maybe the game also include the PC and any other followers raw combat ability in the calculation?? Sniffles (talk) 19:18, 13 March 2013 (GMT)

Given that spells can be chosen at choice, while staves have fixed damages, it might make sense. Confidence doesn't really matter here as I believe all followers are set as Foolhardy. Even then, I'm pretty sure it doesn't cumulate the damage input of all enemies, that's why you see NPCs charging a group of enemies that are individually weaker but much stronger in group and more often than not this NPC will be defeated. I again did more tests regarding distance and equipment (staves) and while I did witness some changes, I wasn't able to replicate them on purpose. The most particular thing I noticed was that, on three occasion (twice Lydia, once Borgakh) my follower attacked even though the enemies were just searching for me and I was pretty close to them. The first time it happened Lydia has Wabbajack in her inventory, but not equipped. The other times nothing in particular, just upgraded weapons and not even enchanted. I must also mention that in all cases, after eliminating the closest hostile my follower sheated her weapon and did not react to enemy assault, be it physical or magical, but resumed combat when I got spotted. Elakyn (talk) 20:59, 13 March 2013 (GMT)

It is starting to make sense. Other factors that enter into this are how often the NPC does a proximity check and superiority calculation, and the random chain enemy effect. When the NPC sheaths a weapon and returns, sometimes with an enemy right up against her backside, she simply hasn't done a recent recheck. For some nut butter into the I just had a hilarious over reach. Upon exiting Ancestors Glade we got attacked by a dragon. I put a couple of arrows in it in sneak mode then it flew further and further afield. Finally the 'eye' told me I was hidden again. Then suddenly the dragon is back. Mjoll went all the way down to the bottom of the mountain and was battling it out north of the trail near Peak's Shade Tower. A huge distance away. Maybe we could just say she's a little weird. Sniffles (talk) 11:40, 14 March 2013 (GMT)

New problem

I raided the Northwatch Keep while doing the Missing in action quest. I had Mjoll loot the bodies of the Thalmor guards. And voila! 15 sets of elven armor, all flagged STOLEN! So I go through her inventory and almost everything I have had her pick up is flagged stolen. Any way I can fix this? Sniffles (talk) 02:37, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

That's actually a pretty common thing, as described here. If you ask your follower to pick up items and they already reached their weight limit, the items become stolen. I guess it's to avoid abuse of their infinite carry weight. Elakyn (talk) 08:49, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

Thanks! I suspect it isn't to avoid abuse but a quirk. A follower doesn't have the encumbered code/script. Just a limit. So when the limit is exceeded it can't happen. Since the follower doesn't own the 'can't be there' items they become flugged. Non owned property in other persons possession. I'd bet the programmers never saw that one coming as it is so convoluted. Sniffles (talk) 09:44, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

Mjoll's choice of weapons

She is equipped with an Ebony Battle Ax, legendary, damage 107; Grimsever, legendary, damage 66; and Stahlrim Battle Ax of Ultimate Chaos, damage 27. She always uses the Stahlrim ax. Why? When I take it away from her she uses the Ebony ax. — Unsigned comment by Sniffles (talk • contribs) at 10:27 on 31 March 2013 (GMT)

If you look at her primary skills in the table, you can see that she favors two-handed weapons. The Stalhrim axe enchanted with Chaos Damage has a potentially higher damage input that the legendary Ebony axe so she choses it, even though the Ebony axe has a more consistent and probably higher damage input in the long run. Elakyn (talk) 11:38, 31 March 2013 (GMT)

It's also a known issue that followers will choose a weapon that has a higher base damage rating over a weapon with lower base damage that has been improved on a grindstone to have a superior damage rating. --Xyzzy ^Talk 20:20, 8 April 2013 (GMT)

So this means the original weapon from the data base is referred to and the player character/save game carries the modifier? If that is the case then a corrupt or odd save can have an effect on all sorts of things down the lane, yes? Sniffles (talk) 03:27, 15 April 2013 (GMT)

Corrupt saves can have all sorts of crazy effects that are difficult to predict. Skyrim's not a simple game, if the data gets corrupted then all kinds of things can go wrong. --Morrolan (talk) 12:20, 15 April 2013 (GMT)

Dragonborn places regarding followers.

Do Mjoll the Lionesss, Cicero and any other followers have any unique dialogue about the Dragonborn places or is Lydia the only follower that does? Because Lydia's page is the only page that mentions dialogue for Dragonborn places. 2.221.252.192 17:44, 26 May 2013 (GMT)

No, Lydia was the only one to receive new dialogue. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 01:00, 28 May 2013 (GMT)