User:MolagBallet/Facts Arena

Racial Compatibility and Reproduction

Original Version

The council of healers at the Imperial University has done many analyses of the living races and determined that mer and man can effectively reproduce with one another. The offspring typically takes after the maternal side, with some traces of the father's side showing.[Citing Racial Phylogeny] Others have found that if humans from two different races have children, their offspring will bear features from both parents.[Citing Tuttle] The Imperial University's council of healers could not determine if Argonians, Orcs and Khajiit are compatible with mer and man and each other. Despite this, other Imperial scholars have claimed that men, mer and beastfolk can all mate with one another. Some have implied that Khajiit and Dunmer pairings are possible.

Breakdown

The council of healers at the Imperial University has done many analyses of the living races

No they haven't. They're not even competent enough to understand the reproductive anatomy of Orcs.

The Imperial University's council of healers could not determine if Argonians, Orcs and Khajiit are compatible with mer and man and each other.

This is due to racism and lack of experimentation. The book constantly brings up "reports of offspring" while simultaneously lamenting the lack of "well documented offspring". To quote the book:

Though there have been many reports throughout the Eras of children from these unions, as well as stories of unions with daedra, there have been no well documented offspring.

Generally, I'd agree that an idea in a lore book being stated to be "well-documented" is better than mere vague "reports of there being [concept]", the rest of this book leads me to believe that we shouldn't take the lack of "well documented" offspring as any indication that children born of Argonian/Khajiit-Human/Elf unions are less possible. It's not like the midwives who helped deliver these children are gonna intrude on the lives of the family they were born to for the sake of "documenting" their child.

I would remove the Imperial Healers' opinions from the body of the article and keep the generic dialogue, because whoever wrote Racial Phylogeny clearly doesn't know what they're talking about.

Some have implied that Khajiit and Dunmer pairings are possible.[Citing The Real Barenziah]

You don't need to have compatible genitals with someone to have sex with them. Khajiit-Dark Elf pairings are a given. I know we're an encyclopedia, but we already have Khajiit penis facts on Lore:Khajiit. Fanfiction authors have long since taken that information and put it into action. This statement feels redundant and makes it look like we can't conceive of people of different races having relations despite their differences. The source doesn't "imply" that Khajiit-Dunmer pairings are possible, it's showing us. It's in-universe erotica. It doesn't tell us "how possible Dunmer-Khajiit children are", it just shows them having sex. This paragraph is mostly about whether A and B can have children with each other, and TRB doesn't add anything to that.

Altered version

The council of healers at the Imperial University has determined that mer and man can effectively reproduce with one another. The Imperial University found that the children of interracial couples typically take on more of the mother's racial features, with traces of the father's traits being expressed. However, this is not entirely true: there have been documented cases where humans from two different races have had children, and their offspring bore features from both parents. Men, mer and beastfolk are all capable of coupling and reproducing with each other.

Second Paragraph

"Hybrids" have been occasionally seen, such as the half-Imperial half-Redguard Aeliah Renmus or the half-Imperial half-Breton Bacaro Volorus.

Calling them hybrids feels weird. A half-Redguard half-Imperial is a mixed race child. "Hybrid" feels like we're discussing drawing a creature that's half-horse half-snake.

Jagar Tharn in one account was described as a "mongrel elf", allegedly being part wood elf, part dark elf, and part "only the gods know what".

The Real Barenziah is a biography. Some conversations might be fictionalized or filled in by the author with an approximation of what might have happened. Symmachus is being racist here. To quote the very next line in the book:

"Nay. Human blood seems to be the one missing component in Tharn's ancestry." To Symmachus, Barenziah knew, that was a flaw. Symmachus despised wood elves as lazy thieves and high elves as effete intellectuals, but he admired humans, especially Bretons, for their combination of pragmatism, intelligence and energy.

Jagar Tharn should not be used as an example here. In the very least, we should exclude the "only the gods know what" portion.

Ogres

Ogres are one such case who may be able to interbreed with humans, although it's unknown if this is the case for the other Goblin-ken.

I think we should provide fuller context by citing the quest in question, perhaps elaborating more in the notes of the article. The quest the item cited exists for isn't present in the English version of Oblivion. It exists in the German version, though, and we should at least cite the quest itself.

Argonians

The Argonian Mating Ritual is not a very reliable source. The author is a High Elf who regurgitates rumors and colors his description with myths and derogatory opinions. He's also never actually observed the rites that he claims exist. He seems to be mistaking the trials in Hissmir, which allow lukiul to commune with the Hist, for some sort of mating ritual. We have extensive documentation of Argonian physiology and a few of the tribes' matrimonial rites on Lore:Argonian.

Apes

Apes are said to have incestuous relations with their own mothers.

Given the rest of the song, it seems like Crendal is singing about sailors rather than actual apes. It's his own Rude Song, but for the alphabet. This shouldn't be here.

Voles

Squire Caw's houseguest dialogue was cited for inbreeding in voles. The dialogue is as follows:

"The Duke of Crows once told me, "Squire Caw, you don't have the brains of an inbred vole."
I don't mean to speak ill of the Duke, but that's unfair! I brought him the brains of at least twenty voles. How am I supposed to know if they're inbred?"

The Duke is merely calling Squire Caw stupid. A vole is a small, non-sapient animal. A rodent, no less. By calling Squire Caw dumber than an inbred vole, he's saying an inbred rodent is smarter than the squire, ergo the squire is exceptionally stupid.

From this, we can't glean anything about how often voles are inbred: the Duke is merely insulting the squire. We can, however, infer that inbreeding has a negative connotation in the world of the Elder Scrolls: inbreeding is associated with lesser intelligence.

Redguards

The methods employed by Redguard noblewomen in their bedchambers stood out in contrast to the traditional practices of Breton nobility.

Without elaboration, this source is useless. Duke Nathaniel is simply surprised by his wife's schmooves. We can't use that to paint all Redguards.

References

Note: The following references are considered to be unofficial sources. They are included to round off this article and may not be authoritative or conclusive.