Oblivion talk:Security

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Contents 1 Skeleton Key 2 Effect of skill? 3 Effect of Torches? 4 Patterns when Lockpicking 5 Pick Breaking 6 Auto-attempt

[edit] Skeleton Key

Skeleton Key is doubtlessly levelled item. Today I did the quest mentioned, as a lvl 2 character, and got a scroll of NightEye for 30s (nominal price 7 gold) for finishing it. (oh, joy! Incredibly generous, wasn't it?) I've also heard of people obtaining it for some daedric shrine quest so likely it's a "random drop" prize item for quests. --Vook 04:16, 30 May 2006 (EDT)

Forget the above. The key you get is from Nocturnal quest and you just don't gain it in "through the nightmare, darkly" - you just recover it together with all the removed items you lose at the start of the quest, and it displays message "Skeleton key added", giving impression the quest rewards you with it. This is obviously wrong, you won't get the skeleton key back if you didn't get it from Nocturnal in the first place. Therefore on level 2, doing the nightmare quest I obviously didn't get the key, and whoever reported they got the key for that quest, just got confused by the message. They got the key from Nocturnal, and simply recovered it back with the rest of the inventory at the end of Nightmare, not as a reward.--Vook 04:17, 30 May 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Effect of skill?

this page fails to mention exactly what effect security skill has on the lockpicking mini-game. anyone know? Sahuagin 16:52, 9 August 2006 (EDT)

My guess has always been that your security skill factors into how quickly the tumblers go up and down. The guide suggests as much: "The higher your Security skill, the easier it is to lodge a tumbler in its set point". If so, presumably there would be a noticeable difference in speed between 5 and 49, but not between 24 and 25 (i.e., the skill is making a difference, not just novice vs apprentice). But I've never tried to test it. --Nephele 17:11, 9 August 2006 (EDT)

The speed difference is based on the skill number, and higher skills ive you an eaiser time (even from 5 to 24). It is still nessicary to be good at the mini game to pick the locks though, even with the somewhat better condition at higher levels, rewarding players for being good at a minigame and not high in a skill. This is counter-intuitive, I can pick a very hard lock with a Level 1 Altmer spellsword with a security of 5. Dylnuge 15:04, 9 November 2006 (EST)

[edit] Effect of Torches?

Using torches does give a considerable advantage when lockpicking. Does anyone know the exact value of using a torch? I'm not sure, but I estimate that the effect could be up to 20 points of skill.

I've never noticed a difference from torches, contrary to what the main page says. I suspect that the suggestion that torches make it easier makes people perceive them as easier, but they're probably not. Then again, I won't argue if someone can prove to me that they do make a difference, either. Does anybody know if there's anything in the Construction Set that indicates that they actually have an effect?--Robin Hood 19:42, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

I haven't tested this effect at all myself. All I can say is that there isn't anything in the construction set to suggest that torches should have an effect on lockpicking, although something like this could possibly be hardwired into the game. --Nephele 23:21, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

Torches do not affect lock picking at all. And the CS doesn't say otherwise. Removing. 77BeTa77 16:07, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

It seems torches just act as a placebo for people... --Merco 16:46, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Patterns when Lockpicking

There seems to be some disagreement about whether or not there is a pattern to the speed at which pins drop when you are picking a lock. The notes originally said:

• There is somewhat of a pattern to how the pins drop. If a pin drops very quickly (almost immediately), then the subsequent "pick" will be significantly longer. So keep picking until the pin drops quickly, then use the next "pick" to attempt to break it.

This note was then changed to:

• Contrary to what many claim, there is no actual pattern to how the pins drop. The trick is to not pay attention to how the pins drop, but rather to watch how they rise. Watch for a pin that rises slowly, those are the ones you want to click to lock into place. You can however manage to catch the really fast pins if you time it just right, but that is more luck than anything else, so save your lockpicks and watch for the slow ones.

I have changed it back to the original statement, because based on my experience this tip really does work. When you get to high-level locks, there is not enough time to respond to the speed of a slow pin once it is already rising; you need to guess ahead of time that the pin is about to rise slowly. And by waiting for very rapid pin drops, I've been very successful at guessing when the pin is going to rise slowly. For example, with a new character (Security skill<25), I've been able to repeatedly pick very hard locks without breaking any lockpicks. And I didn't originally add this tip; I learned the tip from reading this page. So I think that the original tip is very useful and should be kept on the page. --Nephele 11:42, 19 December 2006 (EST)

I have to agree with the "Contrary to what many claim..." note. Like the torches thing, I suspect that it's a matter of suggestion and luck. Also, let's say (for argument's sake) that this is done on a scale of 10 speeds, with 10 being the fastest. If a pin randomly drops at speed 8 one time, then chances are it'll be slower the next time. This gives the appearance that pins rising or dropping slower after they drop quickly. If you sit there and play with them long enough, you'll get two fast drops in a row quite easily.--Robin Hood 19:49, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

As I said above, this is a quirk that I'll stand by as being a valid tip. I'm pretty familiar with statistics and random coincidences, and I'm pretty obsessive about objectively testing tips. This pattern occurs much too consistently to just be random.

Yes, you do occasionally get two fast drops occurring in a row, but if there are 10 speeds then the order of the drops in that case is 9 - 10 - 1. There is a distinct difference between the second-fastest and the fastest drop: the fastest one doesn't even seem to stick at the top, it just bounces straight back down with a single "click" sound instead of a double "click-click" sound like most of the pin drops. Learning that difference is the critical step to getting this trip to work. And it's not just that the subsequent pin drop is slower relative to the fast drop: it is always slow enough that you can set the pin.

The final proof is that it works. I've picked many hard and very hard locks without breaking any lockpicks, even with security<25 (i.e., where missing a single pin means starting all over again). If the speed of the pin after the fastest one was random, there is no way I'd be able to do that. --Nephele 22:35, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

Okay, so maybe I'm misunderstanding, then. Because as I understand it, I've tried hard and very hard locks like you have, and I have to make a point of saving before-hand, since I'll usually break MANY picks in the attempt. So just to be clear (and maybe this should be outlined as well on the main page to make sure nobody else is confused), are you talking about how long the pin stays up, or the speed at which it actually drops? As for the sound it makes, I've never heard a difference in sound when pushing the pins up, but since I have hearing difficulties, maybe I just don't have my volume high enough to hear it...I'll give it a try.--Robin Hood 16:07, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Pick Breaking

I noticed on the page it said that there is no skill increase when you don't set the pin. I have to disagree with this, as I have had many occurrences of breaking a pick and having my security skill rise, as well as a friend --7ru7h 00:10, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

Any chance you've been using the auto-attempt feature? Because then it is possible that with one click you can simultaneously set one or more pins (increasing your security) but then break the lockpick. But you're still not gaining security from the broken pick; you're gaining security from the pins that were set. I know I've tested breaking picks and there was zero increase in security experience. --Nephele^Talk 00:36, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

I've obviously had those, but I'm pretty sure I remember getting them from regular pick breaking, because I rarely use the auto-attempt, mostly because it makes it too easy--~7ru7h 02:00, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Auto-attempt

Anyone know what "auto-attempt" does, exactly? How big is the chance for opening the lock with that given your skill? How big is the chance that you'll raise your security skill?

Like many people, I'm a crack at the mini-game, to the point where Security is irrelevant to my characters, and I was wondering how realistic it is to role-play this better by making the game simulate success for me. Obviously, this only works if "auto-attempt" isn't a complete dud. JRM 11:25, 10 September 2007 (EDT)