Shivering talk:Gatekeeper

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Contents 1 Page Version? 2 Page Version still unknown 3 Page Protected 4 My Thoughts on What Should be Included 5 Irrevelance 6 Question 7 CS information please? 8 Invincibility

[edit] Page Version?

It looks like there's a sort of edit war going on in this page. I'm going to go ahead and restore Saruuk's version again, as Nephele did. The editor trying to dominate this page should read the comments on his own talk page, and post here before making the same changes again. Jason the2nd 14:46, 28 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Page Version still unknown

Im going to rewrite Tiberius's version again because it was bigger and with more informations and no edit war.Gorgus 11:05 June 29 2007 [This comment was actually written by User:Tiberius Stormrider [1]]

This comment would appear to be an attempt to impersonate another user, as can be seen from this. May I suggest to any passing administrator that this page be fully protected for a while, as it appears an unproductive edit war is fully in progress? I have refrained from reverting the main page for this reason. --Rpeh^Talk 04:25, 29 June 2007 (EDT)

I agree with Rpeh here. (Also I'll note that the "timestamp" above would have been "8:01, June 29 2007 (EDT)" if it were legitimate.) It is my opinion that the shorter article is more appropriate in this case. A longer article would be appropriate if it actually presented more information on the background of the Gatekeeper himself, which is, unless I'm mistaken, not too abundant. All of the information regarding the quests can already be found on the quest pages, which are linked to from this article. I suppose now we just have to determine whether this calls for full protection from an administrator, or if it can be resolved in a non-childish manner on the talk page here. Jason the2nd 10:21, 29 June 2007 (EDT)

I feel I ought to add that one aspect of the longer version that can be saved is the paragraph on the description of the Gatekeeper, which adds some good descriptive and background material. I'm loath to see pages protected unnecessarily, but unless everybody plays by the same set of rules, there's often not much choice. --Rpeh^Talk 10:30, 29 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Page Protected

I have placed this article under full protection in order to freeze this edit war and force a Consensus-building discussion on what the content of this page should be. No further edits will be made to the page until a consensus has been reached. This protection will be in place for at least one week.

Before freezing the page I reverted to the shorter version of the page, using the paragraph originally written by Saruuk, instead of freezing the article at Tiberius' last version. I did this for several reasons:

• All indications are that if the article was left at Tiberius' version, he would have no interest in participating in this discussion. Everyone else involved here has already shown that they are willing to discuss the page's content; if any progress is to be made here, it is critical that Tiberius participate, and this is the most obvious way to encourage him to do so.
• The majority clearly favours Saruuk's version, or at least a version based more on Saruuk's version than Tiberius'.
• Tiberius' attempt to masquerade as another user when he reinserted his long version of the page was inappropriate and cheating to circumvent the system should not be rewarded by freezing the page on a version derived from that edit.

I've already stated some of my opinions about Tiberius' edits on his talk page (in posts that Tiberius subsequently chose to erase), see this version of the talk page. To repeat some of the key points:

• Details about how to complete quests belong on quest pages. The quest pages are where readers and editors will look for complete details on a quest, and have been designed to make it easy for readers to find the information that they want.
• Page-long blocks of text are too long for web pages, as described in the How Users Read on the Web article linked to from the style guide page. Most readers will not even bother to read Tiberius' version of the page.
• Redundancy on the wiki is pointless and self-defeating. Trying to repeat the quest information on another page ultimately helps nobody. The Gatekeeper article will never have complete information on the quests, so readers will still have to read the quest pages if they really want to learn about the quests. Trying to maintain complete information on two different wiki pages is impossible: editors will add information to only one of the two articles, so the two pages will get out of sync.

The Gatekeeper article could be expanded to have more descriptive information focussed on the Gatekeeper, not on the quests. For example, general information about his weaknesses or how he was constructed would be appropriate. But instructions telling players where to go and what to do are quest-specific and do not belong here. However, these are just my opinions. It's up to the community as a whole to decide what should be in this article (and I'd prefer to not be too involved in the specifics, especially since I've only just started playing through the Shivering Isles). --Nephele^Talk 13:59, 29 June 2007 (EDT)

Update. Following some discussions in IRC, I've lifted the protection on this page. Protecting pages, especially full protection, is a fairly extreme measure which we'd like to avoid. And as long as the page is protected, other editors who have ideas about how to improve the page are being prevented from working on it.

However, I would still strongly encourage anyone interested in editing this page to read through the existing discussion about what belongs on this page. Most of the contributors to this discussion seem to have fairly similar opinions about what is appropriate for the page. Any proposed edits that are contrary to this developing consensus should not be made without first discussing the edits and the rationale behind them on this talk page. --Nephele^Talk 00:47, 30 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] My Thoughts on What Should be Included

First, I'll mention that specific quest details should not be in this article. However, in the length that was Tiberius's revision, I think there are a few points that would be worth keeping. First, I agree with Rpeh that the physical description of the Gatekeeper himself could be added to the article. There are also a few points from the quests which I think could be included. You might mention that the Gatekeeper has known weaknesses against bone and his mother's tears. No detail on completing the actual quest, just list the weaknesses. Also, it could be included that if an adventurer manages to kill a gatekeeper, one (isn't each one always stronger than the last?) is always rebuilt to replace it. Again, no details on the process of actually doing this. Jason the2nd 15:31, 29 June 2007 (EDT)

I agree. Information relevent to the Gatekeeper and not related quests seems more appropriate for the page. I agree with Nephele that when the page gets too long, people just aren't going to read it. When people go to the Gatekeeper page, they want quick, concise information on the creature, not everything in the entire game that has something to do with him. Or at least that's what I think. Here's hoping we can all agree on something and end this ridiculous "page ownership" escapade. --Eshe 15:47, 29 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Irrevelance

Doesn't anyone realize none of this relates with the "Gatekeeper" topic whatsoever. It is just random posting and organization opinions in general.

And your comment changes that... how, exactly? Organization opinions are one of the things talk pages are for. --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 01:46, 11 December 2007 (EST)

[edit] Question

Can someone show me if you can use player.placeatme <base ID> to spawn gatekeeper out of SI. If you can please make a video.

[edit] CS information please?

Can anyone get into the construction set and find the spell ID for Lifeless Touch, unless it's not possible for NPC spells ^{—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Moleman122 (talk • contribs).}

There are several versions depending on level. From lowest to highest: 4fb70, 4dc46, 4fb6f, 4fb71, 4fb73, 4fb74, 4fb75, and 4fb76. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 01:10, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

Thank you Rpeh, i appreciate it :) ill test them out right now and get back to you if they dont work. Darkness Calls 20:32, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Invincibility

I'm pretty sure that the Gatekeeper is invincible when it's fighting the adventurer party, until you get the quest update sayung that you just witnessed the Gatekeeper slaughter a party of adventurers. I just want to know, is the Gatekeeper invincible then or anytime after? (Like tgm) If so, how? (I'd like to see the script making it invincible if there is one if anyone can get it) Kestral 21:47, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

"In addition, the Orc Adventurer Captain is essential until his troops have been slain by the Gatekeeper during their attack, and the Gatekeeper itself is essential until the end of that battle" that was from the "Shivering:Essential NPCs" page so it looks like its simply an Essential tag Diobern 19:21, 11 November 2008 (EST)