Oblivion talk:Frenzy

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Contents 1 Removed comment 2 tone of the page 3 Humanoid only? 4 Supposed to work on level 25+ NPCs? 5 Easy way to create huge battle 6 Similar effect to control? 7 No effect 8 25+ solution 9 Verification 10 Conclusion on Frenzy 11 Frenzy Enchantment on a Bow 12 Don't work on guards 13 Making Frenzy Work on Guards

[edit] Removed comment

It can be very entertaining to simply go into the Imperial City, and sling a powerful frenzy spell over everyone. It's total chaos. All the civilians are really pissed off and try to kill each other. While the Imperial Guard tries desperately to restore order. If you want the riot to go on for even longer, go around and kill the guards. Or if you have a really good character, make a spell that effects guards too. The Imperial City Market District is a great place to do this especially in the middle of the day; 11:00-3:00. (Spoiler Alert!) Also try this on the main quest part when the Bruma army tries to take on the Great Gate. Cast the spell before the Oblivion gates appear. -- wrong placing, unnecessary, inappropriate language. Western3589 10:07, 4 November 2007 (EST)

[edit] tone of the page

i will say this. i like the examples of "caution". However, i don't think that this is necessarily the place to be making such jokes/comments. i vote they be removed. Lalanas 21:26, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

I totally agree with you here, I read this a while ago and didn't really enjoy these light comments, I don't think that kind of stuff belongs in an encyclopedia. We're stating facts and giving out opinions (to some extent)...all the rest shouldn't belong on the page. --Vartan 21:37, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Yes, they don't really fit in with the tone of the rest of the wiki. If anyone would like to reword it, go for it. --Nephele 00:31, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Humanoid only?

As far as I can tell, this spell only works on humanoids. I even blasted a top level version at a rat (when I was lower than 19th level) and he didn't so much as twitch a whisker. It should have affected any rat level 25 and lower, if it affected critters.

But nowhere in the docs or in the game does it say humanoid only. Everywhere, (even here) it says "target".

In Morrowind, there were two seperate spell effects, Frenzy Humanoid and Frenzy Creature. Apparently in Oblivion, they removed Frenzy Creature and didn't make the general Frenzy work in both cases? At any rate, Frenzy Creature was always far less useful, as 1.) most creatures attack on sight anyhow, 2.) most creatures can be attacked without incurring a bounty, and 3.) the ones that can't there's generally no reason to attack anyhow. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 11:30, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

How are you figuring out whether or not the rat was affected? Apparently the rat didn't know that you were there, or it would have already been attacking you. Who/what did you expect the rat to attack after you cast the frenzy spell? Also, rats already have 100 aggression, so increasing their aggression probably wouldn't really change their behavior too much. Testing the spell on a creature like a sheep would be a better indicator of whether or not it has an effect on creatures. --Nephele^Talk 20:57, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

I know it doesn't work on a rat because there was another mob right next to it (some sort of wraith, probably faded). Cast the spell at the rat, saw it hit, and the rat didn't do anything at all. While unlikely, it could be something specific to my installation which is why I asked here. Frenzy doesn't just increase aggro, it also widens target selection to include all mobs both friendly and non. When I cast Frenzy at a humanoid near a wraith, the humanoid will attack the wraith, even though they are the best of buds. If both survive to the end of the spell, they stop fighting and act like friends again. And this does not occur with nonhumanoid mobs, at least for me. 11:45, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

Also, this doesn't seem to work on goblins or ogres. I tried it with the ogres in Weatherleah, but in one case they were a bit far away from eachother, and in the other they were already aggroing on me, so it's tough to tell anything. But I did blast a goblin right who was right next to another, and he didn't do anything either.

The game doesn't have a predefined list of "friendy" and "non-friendly" targets, so I'm not sure what you're basing the statement about target selection upon. All decisions about combat are made based upon Aggression and Disposition. Every creature has defined dispositions to everything else in the game, which for creatures is primarily based on what factions they belong to. Because rats appear in every dungeon in the game, they've been added to multiple common enemy factions. In this particular case, what that means is that the rat is a member of the "undead" faction and "vampire" factions, both of which are defined to have +100 disposition modifiers toward undead, and another +100 modifier for "undead" towards "necromancerdungeon" (which a wraith would belong to). So although you wouldn't necessarily expect it, a rat has a +300 disposition towards the wraith standing next to it, and would therefore need to have an insanely high value of aggression before having any interest in attacking the wraith.

In the humanoid case, you didn't really give enough details to guess at what the initial dispositions are. But it's pretty certain that the disposition is not +300, and therefore the humanoid would be more likely to attack when you cast the frenzy spell.

I'm not trying to discount what you're saying has happened, I'm just trying to make sense of it based upon my understanding of how these effects would work. And it's looking like your cases are not really the best examples for testing whether or not frenzy works on creatures. Rats are probably the single worst test subjects, because their dispositions towards a lot of other enemies are going to be pretty huge (and their starting aggression is 100). As you say, your ogre cases aren't too clear, and with your goblin case it's also tough to figure out the details, because there are about 100 different types of goblins, with a wide range of aggression and dispositions. If you're interested in really figuring this out, I'd suggest continuing to test the frenzy spell on different creatures, and keep track of exactly what creatures are involved each time. Let us know what you find out! --Nephele^Talk 12:37, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

Also note that most goblins (unlike a lot of other creatures) are in factions which makes them VERY loyal to their own tribe. If you see two goblins next to eachother, chances are they're in the same tribe, and if they're not, then they're already attacking eachother, because goblins from rival tribes hate eachother already. I think this is also true of most ogres and trolls as well. Any creatures with tribal factions is less likely to be freziable. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 14:30, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

I routinely blast necros and they fight eachother tooth and nail. Surely their disposition would be at least equal to that of a rat towards a wraith. The goblins were outside of some cave and part of a quest, darn if I can remember which one it was. IIRC, it was near Weatherleah, so perhaps they guarded the entrance to the ogre cave (from the Chorrol blade quest)?

Also as an interesting aside, if you frenzy an apprentice mage in the Arcane University and a battlemage guard joins in the fray, the mages turn against all aggrod battlemages once the frenzied mage is dead or unfrenzied. It's pretty funny (if you think piles of corpses is funny). What a great game!

I've run tests on a dozen or so creatures. Same results in all cases:

• The creature did not react.
• The effect shader (red glow + green particle swirl) did not play on the target (it does when you cast on NPCs).
• My illusion skill did not increase (it does when you cast on NPCs).

In short, it does not work on creatures. I will change the page to reflect this. --Deathbane27 00:46, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

I have had some interesting results myself- casting the spell Touch of Frenzy works fine in towns for example, but not in the wilderness on creatures. I created a custom frenzy spell, maxed out to 'up to level 25', that doesn't seem to work at all. However, if I turn on god mode, it all works fine. Considering my illusion skill is 100, I've been trying to find out what is it about god mode that does it, but to no avail...any ideas?

[edit] Supposed to work on level 25+ NPCs?

I noticed on the Magnitude-to-Level Conversion page that a custom spell set up to level 25 will actually affect all NPCs. I tried that with a frenzy spell, assuming that it would also work, but there's no effect. I tried the spell on a level 17 NPC and there was an effect, so the spell itself isn't the problem. Has anyone else tried a (supposedly) level 25 spell and had it affect higher level NPCs, or is it just other spells with Levels?

Did you have 100% spell effectiveness? If you wear armor your spell effectiveness goes down.--Pwijnands 10:59, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

Did you have any Spell Absorption enchantment on? When casting touch, area spells you can actually absorb your own spell effect. Especially with Illusion. --Webdemon00 04:39, 6 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Easy way to create huge battle

A very satisfying way to create huge piles of bodies: once you have created a 100% chameleon suit, go around punching every arcane university member outside during the day. punch the guards too. For an NPC, getting attacked by something that doesnt exist blows the circuits on the mages and guards. they will cluster around the nearest guard, trying to report the crime, yet they can't because there was no crime. infect every mage possible with this and you get a nice little circle of people, perfect for even a 15ft. frenzy spell. they will attack like savages, conjuring armor and beating the battlemages senseless. Obviously, saving before is recommended. It is a foolproof plan and the "report disease" will last until you leave that major cell (i.e. enter the city isle; going into a house will not cause them to disperse)

This is already pretty much described on the Oblivion:Things to Do When You're Bored page. --Rpeh^Talk 03:30, 9 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Similar effect to control?

If you create a magnitude 25 control spell, it will control anything, even guards. I was wondering if this is similar with the Frenzy spell; if you create a magnitude 25 spell, does it affect everyone? --Merco 10:41, 5 November 2007 (EST)

[edit] No effect

I got a frenzy level 6 30 sec and tryed it on a beggar in Bravil and the green+red happened but no attack? why?Helper Unknown 16:52, 29 December 2007 (EST)

The effect makes it more likely that the target will attack something, it doesn't guarantee it. 68.166.64.187 00:05, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

Beggars are actually cowards, so even though the spell just made them want to pick a fight, a Rally spell is needed for them to have the guts to actually start one.

== Edited the first paragraph. The frenzy spell won't make the summon turn on its master. The summoner will turn on the summon. Sometimes the summon will realize its master is being aggressive to it before the summoner actually attacks. 68.166.64.187 00:05, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] 25+ solution

Is it possible to make a custom spell with a 100% weakness to magic and a level 25 frenzy so it becomes a 50 leveled frenzy? --Umbacano 3:15 , 6 April 2008 (EDT)

Yes; level 25 spell with 100% effectiveness seems to affect all NPCs (AFAICT).123.2.92.233 17:44, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

Wouldn't that count as an assault though?(EDT)

Much like Charm and Rally, Frenzy cannot be resisted even with 100% resistence to magic so weakness to magic will not increase its magnitude or duration. Would it count as an assault? Yes, it could but most of the time it doesn't. And even if it did, you hardly ever get a bounty.

Greater Power; "Ahjazda's Paranoia" on a Imperial Watch did not count as an assault, but it also did not turn him hostile even though he is clearly affected by it.(flashing in red) Used it in a Necromancer lair, on a Necromancer who was attacking me. It increased my assault count by 5, since 5 other Necromancers were within 50 ft radius and were unaware of my presence. Used it on a Mythic Dawn Assasin in the Imperial City Market District; it increased my assault count by 20 and affected everyone, and I did get a bounty. Since it's a Greater Power, spell effectiveness is always at 100% and I've tried it with 4 different characters at various levels. Results equally varied and its effect was to say the least quite unpredictable.--Webdemon00 06:40, 6 October 2008 (EDT)

Would it be possible to get around a reduced Spell Effectiveness by adding Weakness to Magicka to a frenzy spell? Diadu 13:51, 24 May 2009 (EDT)

No. As noted just above, Frenzy is not subject to magicka weakness/resistance, and so you cannot increase its magnitude or duration in this way. --Gaebrial 06:15, 29 May 2009 (EDT)

Does this mean you need a 25 Frenzy spell in order to affect (pretty much) any NPC if you're level 26 or higher (I'm on 38 or 39)? SwedishBerzerker at youtube.com 11:14, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, a 25 Frenzy will be able to affect all NPCs in the game. –Elliot^(T-C) 11:17, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Verification

I've just removed two VN tags.

First, you do indeed need a level 25 spell with 100% effectiveness to affect guards. I tried several different combinations of lower-level spells and different spell effectiveness but only got a positive result with the perfect combination.

Second, I removed the whole note about Frenzy sometimes counting as assault. Again, I used a range of spells of different levels and durations. Whether they succeeded or failed; whether I cast them repeatedly or at an interval, I could never get a bounty. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 14:24, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

I'm not exactly sure what's happening to me. I've got a level 19 Altmer, with 69 Personality. She has a spell called Enrage, which combines the effects of a level 25 Frenzy for 15 seconds and 100 point Rally for 60 seconds. It works on just about everybody, but I cannot seem to get it to work on guards. From what I read in the article, it should be, and I'm not sure where I'm going wrong. I'm not wearing any armor, and I've got 100% spell effectiveness. I've even tried pissing the gaurds off so that their disposition falls to zero, and then hitting them with the spell. No luck. I'm at a bit of a loss here. I'm also playing on the Xbox 360, so the only mods I have installed are the official ones. Any advice that anyone has to offer would be much appreciated. Honeybunch 01:40, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

Guards are usually 10 levels higher than you. That would mean that in your case, you would need a level 29 Frenzy spell, which can't be created with Spellmaking. Rpeh may have been a bit unclear in his comment, but the article is correct; once you have passed level 15 you can no longer Frenzy guards. --Timenn < talk > 04:13, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

Although that's a reasonable conclusion, it disagrees with other things I've read on this site. Specifically, at Oblivion:Magical_Effects#Magnitude_to_Level_Conversion. It says that "However, the maximum strength spell, despite claiming to only work "up to level 25," will in fact work on any level enemy — as long as your character has 100% spell effectiveness." I have a level 25 Frenzy spell, and 100% spell effectiveness, which is why I'm confused about the consistent failure of my spell when used on guards. Honeybunch 12:58, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

If you haven't killed her already, go to Vidasel and cast it on Umbra(the person) before you start the Clavicus Vile quest. She's a level 50 Bosmer and Command Humanoid "up to level 25," works on her so I don't see why Rally combined with Frenzy wouldn't. And if your spell works on Umbra then it should work on the guards. If it doesn't then try summoning a creature, attack it 3 times then use the spell on the guard. It seems like certain high level guards; e.g. Imperial watch inside city walls can only be Frenzied when there is a hostile NPC (you with a bounty, Mythic Dawn, etc.) or a hostile creature within 220 feet radius.--Webdemon00 07:30, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

I lowered a guard's disposition as far as it would go and when I hit him with a frenzy spell he attacked me. It was wierd because none of the other guards seemed to care we were fighting and even tho he attacked me first I got an assault bounty when I hit him back. After I killed him another guard tried to arrest me. I used the same method to provoke a chapel member that wouldn't respond to the frenzy. 173.73.59.18 21:33, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Conclusion on Frenzy

I finally figured out how you can use it on a level 25+ guard. (Probability 100%)

Tested on PS3 GoTY.

Requirements and Limitations

• The custom spell must contain an effect that is Offensive and Hostile.

• This effect does not need to affect or hit the target, e.g. Turn Undead on touch, Frenzy on Target

• Even if the Offensive effect is on SELF, Frenzy will work on the target/guard.

• It absolutely must be Offensive and Hostile (e.g. Burden 3pt for 1 sec on Self, Frenzy up to level 25 on Target for 10 sec) Rally + Frenzy will work as you would expect. But again, only if you add the Offensive and Hostile effect. Silence, Paralyze on Self will not compromise the Frenzy on Target so long as they are included in the same spell but paralyzing yourself will lead to detection.

• As long as your spell effectiveness is a 100%, and an Offensive/Hostile effect is included in the custom spell, Frenzy up to level 25 will work on any NPC. (Unless they are scripted characters e.g. Martin, Haskil, High Elf Arena combatent equipped with the Grey Aegis, and Sheogorath)

Crime/Assault and Bounty

• If seen/detected it will increase your assault count by 1, and you will get a bounty of 40 gold. (minimum)

• Unless you are deteced, it does not count as an assault and you will not get a bounty. Yet the guard will simply run around in circles unless you cast it on another guard (or some other NPC) before the effect wears off. Rally + Freny on Target with an area effect will solve this issue but will likely lead to you being detected.

• If you can raise the guard's disposition to 90 or above, AFTER you cast the spell on him, he will pay the fine for you.

• Even after he pays your fine, so long as another NPC had assaulted (struck the guard 3 times) before he pays your fine; the battle will continue. Except you are no longer part of it. No need resist arrest since you don't have a bounty and nobody will come after you.

Also works with SI "guards"--Webdemon00 10:50, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

You've just proven that casting an offensive spell at someone will cause them to attack. That is nothing to do with frenzy. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 04:37, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

Read it again Casting an offensive spell at someone will simply cause them to attack YOU. Guards, would try to arrest you (bounty of 40 gold) not kill you without a warning then pay your fine for you when the Frenzy effect wear off. And you are casting the offensive spell on yourself, Why does that suddenly turn Frenzy to work on level 25+ guards and force them to kill everyone else if they could not find you. --Webdemon00 08:02, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

Because the other NPCs are defending you. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 08:06, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

Defending me? No one saw me casting the spell, and if anyone had (or if even the game regarded it as a crime) I would get a bounty and my assault count would increase. Nice try. And your job is to make articles easier to read, not to mess it up by making me write more details that are unnecessary. End of Discussion. --Webdemon00 08:54, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

Yes, defending you. Because that's the way the game's AI works. The guard was running around in a mode of "arrest / attack the player" and the NPCs in the area who were your friends reacted badly to that. Try the same trick again without the Frenzy effect in the spell and you'll get the same result. It is nothing to do with Frenzy. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 09:21, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

Ok, since when I wrote "End of Discussion" you were already writing the above; I will answer you for the last and final time. Who are "my friends?" I told you I tested it with various characters starting from level 3 to 53. The level 3 charcter has minimum number of fame you get from gaining access to the Arcane Univ. And in the Arena District in the Imperial City; how many "friends" do I have that would commit a crime just to defend an Apprentice? The answer is none. Which is not more than what your comments here are worth. I'm done talking you about this. --Webdemon00 09:32, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

As opposed to a last but not final time? Anyway. You can have lots of friends even at an early level. The behavior of the AI in this situation has been one of the biggest gripes with the game and you've highlighted why. Do the test I suggested and you'll see that you are mistaken. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 09:40, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

Does casting Turn Undead on someone really count as an assault? If you read near the top of the topic, he suggests something like Turn Undead on touch, which means the offensive spell wouldn't even hit the guard. If he's intending the Frenzy effect to be on target, then we can probably assume the guard's not close enough to be affected by the on touch part of the spell. The scenario may sound far-fetched, but it's not unlikely.--penguin0719 10:04, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

Thank you for your comment, yes I did assume someone like you would understand what I was saying. Thank you so much. And yes casting Turn Undead on a friendly NPC is an assault, and the point I was making was that the offensive and hostile effect does not even need to hit you or the guard; it can miss entirely but so long as Frenzy effect is on Target and it hits, it will work regardless of whom including Guards. (Note; I used Turn Undead as an example since you cannot cast it on yourself. Much like Soul Trap. And it wouldn't have a negative effect on you while Burden 3pt on self for 1 sec does in fact, encumber you by 3pt.) The actual spell I use is Burden 3pt for 1 sec on Self, Frenzy up to level 25 in 20 ft for 30 sec on target. While being 100% Chamleoen, Fortifying Attribute; Speed to 145pt (easy, 3 Chamleon potions and 1 Fortify Speed.) Thanks again.--Webdemon00 10:40, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

As I said, I don't know how and why it works but it does, and my post was not about how/why the AI reacts this way. I merely described the method you could use to Frenzy a guard when there are no enemies around. (mythic dawn etc.) Please test it first, it should take no more than 5 mins if you have access to the Arcane University.--Webdemon00 11:12, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

Okay. My original reply to this post was unprintable. Please - anybody reading this exchange, ignore everything Webdemon says. He has no idea how to test and will not listen to sense. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 15:29, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Frenzy Enchantment on a Bow

If I enchant a bow with a Frenzy effect, will the magnitude be affected by my magic efficiency when I fire the bow, even though it's technically not a spell that I'm casting, but is embedded in the weapon? Will the magic efficiency at the time of enchanting affect it? 64.206.123.1 17:06, 5 February 2009 (EST)WB

Happily, the spell effectiveness of an enchanted weapon is unaffected and will deliver the full 100% effect of the magic within it. An armor-clad character shooting a Level 25 Frenzy bow will land a Level 25 Frenzy effect on the target (if the target isn't sporting any Resist Magic, of course).

And imbuing an item at an Altar of Enchanting will work at 100%, no matter what kind of armor worn, or even the Skill level of your spell. For example: if you have a "Command Humanoid Level 3" spell within your grasp as an Apprentice of Illusion, you can create a bow which casts a "Command Humanoid Level 25" effect which would otherwise have required a much greater Illusion skill. —Dark Spark 23:08, 5 February 2009 (EST)

[edit] Don't work on guards

I've tried to cast a 25lvl (100 magnitude) Frenzy spell on a couple of guards from every town and they didn't go bersek in the towns. Does frenzy not affect guards? (I have no armor on and 100% spell effectiveness) --SirKarl 15:23, 17 February 2009 (EST)

I tried it in the Imperial Prison yesterday. The Guards were glowing red but wouldn't attack each other. I think it's the guards AI that prevents them from attacking the PC/Townspeople/each other on sight (Maybe also related to loyality mentioned in a discussion above). However, as soon as I summoned a Dremora Lord, they'd start attacking it. Diadu 07:08, 25 May 2009 (EDT)

It definitely doesn't work on guards. Their AI makes them immune to Frenzy. And you don't need any offensive effect on self coupled with frenzy to make it work. Don't know what the guy above is even talking about. Frenzy 25 levels with spell effectiveness 100% will work on any humanoid NPC with the exception of guards. Simple as that. WRFan 12:14, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

It definitely does work on guards, the problem as you correctly noted is that the guards AI prevents them from committing assaults under frenzy, however summoning a creature in front of a frenzied guard will cause that guard to attack the creature, and any other guards in the vicinity to come to the creatures defense. There is an exception in the case of Caelia Draconis, The guards will always side with her, most likely due to the same scripting that allows her to assault the player.Rhomphaia 13:52, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Making Frenzy Work on Guards

It's possible. Summon a creature near a few guards and cast frenzy on one of them. As he starts to attack your summon, frenzy the other guards, and they should begin to fight each other to the death.

~Shiggy