Oblivion talk:Hand to Hand

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Contents 1 Quick Question #2 2 Quick Question 3 fist points??? 4 Pros and cons 4.1 Pros: 4.2 Cons: 4.3 Overall: 5 Chance? 6 I disagree. 7 Power 8 Glitch? 9 Punching Ghosts

[edit] Quick Question #2

Watching the two NPC's training for the arena for some time (In the district of the arena itself, upon one of the two greek temple alike plazas where they both sleep as well.) will net you 5! hand-to-hand skillpoints. Is this written down anywhere within this wiki? I couldn't find it at least. ^{—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.149.148.90 (talk • contribs).}

Yes, it's fully detailed at Oblivion:Free Skill Boosts, with links on Branwen's page, Saliith's page, and the Arena District page. The Hand to Hand article also has a link to that page under "Skill Increases", with a generic statement that "There are a couple opportunities to receive free hand to hand skill boosts." As far as I can tell, the information is provided everywhere it's supposed to be. --Nephele^Talk 01:00, 5 December 2007 (EST)

Correct, i just missed it, it is quite detailed indeed, my mistake.

[edit] Quick Question

I was just wondering, why on earth would anyone [not talking about RP scenarios here] prefer to hit with his bare fists, rather than a sword, bow, dagger? I seriously see no point in this, unless there were items similar to World of Warcraft's fist weapons (which count as 'Unarmed', which is a trainable skill). The only point of leveling Hand to Hand, as I see it, is to have a better chance at killing someone if you are disarmed and normally rely on a melee weapon for damage. Discuss?

Don't underestimate it. You ever get into a fight with the bare-handed NPCs in the game? Those are some of the hardest fights, because you spend most of the time stunned and unable to do anything. Also, since most of the damage is to your fatigue, it makes your attacks much weaker. You're also more likely to get knocked back or fall over exhausted in a fight against a hand-to-hand opponent. Hand attacks are also faster than any weapon, (at the expense of range) so it's harder to get a hit in. --TheRealLurlock 13:33, 14 August 2006 (EDT)

I just started a game with a modified monk class ("Friar," includes restoration and light armor) and it is amazing - the speed of the attacks is phenominal. Question though - does using gauntlets do anything to your attack power?

No. Only Strength and Hand-to-Hand skill modifies Hand-to-Hand damage IIRC. --Actreal 05:50, 24 October 2006 (EDT)

[edit] fist points???

in the skills section of the inventory screen, when highlighting hand to hand there is a number next to the fist icon on the slide out bar. mine is currently at 2. i cannot find anything about this in the manual. what does it mean??????? ^{—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.104.47.175 (talk • contribs).}

It sounds like you're describing the indicator telling you how much damage you will do with a hand to hand attack. If you want to double check you can compare to the value calculated using the equation in the article and see whether the number is consistent. --Nephele 23:28, 5 March 2007 (EST)

Can we mayby add this information to the page, it took me ages to track down what this number actually ment and it isnt addressed anywhere in the manual.

[edit] Pros and cons

[edit] Pros:

• Can never be disarmed, by power attack or wear from overuse.
• High speed attacks, higher rate of skill gain per attack, makes this an easy skill to master early.
• Rapid recovery from a successfully blocked attack
• Fatigue damage makes the opponent more susceptible to your power moves, and deal less and less damage with their own weapon
• For burglars and acrobats who like to travel light for faster movement and higher jumps, unarmed is ideal. The lightest weapon is no weapon at all

[edit] Cons:

• Low damage is the common complaint. Of course, damaging weapons is something the other attack skills can boast, and hand to hand could be better balanced while still setting itself apart. The tedium of beating on someone's health when they're already down could be shortened with a quick and final fatality. Why beat on someone who isn't able to resist strangulation?
• Much less effective blocking. Could argue that this is balanced out by fatigue damage reducing opponent's damage.
• Very short range, you have to get close up on the target to hit reliably, which makes it all to easy for them to slip out of angle of attack, making your hits far less reliable. Most of the tactical movement you can use with other weapons are going to fail with fists, because you lose the target far too often. And why wouldn't the range of your fists be at least as far as a touch spell?
• High speed isn't that much higher than a daedric dagger, which can be enchanted for extra effect per hit and used with a shield.

[edit] Overall:

Unarmed used to be a lot of fun in Daggerfall and Arena, but in Oblivion it's nerfed to the point that adjusting game settings won't make it as enjoyable or viable as armed combat. A few minor things could have changed that, for example removing the need wield/sheathe your own hands for use, or multiplying the fatigue damage in sneak attacks. But this looks like a system designed by someone who's never learned to fight, so probably couldn't imagine unarmed styles being effective. And since the designer didn't want to let this become viable as a non-lethal combat form, then there's no need to be squeamish about the true brutality of it -- let's go for the gouged eyeballs and crushed windpipes.

Not to ignore your great outline of it all, but I got pretty trashed around by J'Ghasta when I confronted him (at least, when I wasn't using dirty tricks- then again, dirty tricks like Paralyze kill just about anyone). M'aiq^{M'aiq thinks talk serves no purpose.} 15:43, 22 September 2007 (EDT)

I personally disagree with the "overall" section saying H2H isn't enjoyable. I have a level 47 h2hander, and haven't swung a sword once. Very satisfying skill, if you ask me. Vanguard 09:11, 23 January 2008 (EST)

I agree Vanguard. H2H at level 53 beats dagger at 63 every time. I can one-punch kill a wolf at level 4 with 53 H2H skill and can hit a Frost Atronach at will without getting return hits. The best way to improve H2H is to Summon Frost Atronach and proceed to pummel him. You can usually get 8 punches in before he attacks and then a judicious use of punch/retreat hones your fighting skills. I can usually get in 20-30 punches in a single summon session so there is no quicker way to boost H2H than this. The only con I see is it is very hard to kill pesky imps unless you do a sneak attack.--TheOtherZack 72.61.100.51 13:56, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Chance?

This has been marked as a question that needs to be answered.What do you mean under "chance" of a knockdown? Does Luck or H2H skill improve this chance? What is the formula?

PS: How to change the chance using TES?(I know this is cheating :) )

"Chance of a knockdown" means that as your skill increases in hand to hand, there's a greater chance of your opponent getting knocked on their butt when you hit them. This chance is improved according to skill in hand to hand (i.e. the difference between getting hit by a twelve year old or getting hit by a 30 year old heavyweight champion... I'm sure you can guess which has a better chance of knocking you down). This applies to all forms of melee attack, not just hand to hand. The chance of a knockback also increases with skill, meaning if you block your opponent's attack, there's a greater chance of them losing their balance from it as you get better at fighting. I don't think that luck really has anything to do with it, but then again who can really say?

• As for your P.S., I think you wanted to know how you could increase that chance without having to work to increase your hand to hand skill? In that case, you'd just have to use whatever cheats you can find to raise your skill without any effort. As far as I know, the chances of knocking an opponent down are completely random, so there's no way to be absolutely sure that it's going to happen. You just have to get good at the skill and... leave it to luck? ;) TexasWatermelon ^{Sit and chat by the TexasWatermelon Patch} 03:29, 30 June 2008 (EDT)

[edit] I disagree.

It has been said that the use of gauntlets does not change the damage dealt by hand to hand. However, recently I had played with a doomstone and it stuck some bound gauntlets on me, and upon checking the damage rating, it had gone up, and went back down when the gauntlets came off. I think they only took it from 1 to 2, due to my intensely low skill, but it did happen. Odul 17:35, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Power

Which will increase H2H damage more, a strenghth boost, or a H2H skill boost? --66.29.169.1 21:15, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

If you would check the article itself, you can see in the formula that both Strength and skill have the same amount of influence on your Hand to Hand damage. However, only Strength raised above 100 has an additional effect. So if you are aiming for that, I would look into raising Strength. --Timenn < talk > 06:38, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Glitch?

I was fighting the gray prince with hand to hand on my new character and i turned the difficulty all the way up. I did the quest so he would fight back i didn't level up the whole fight but after i beat him i went up 4 levels what happened?

I have noticed the same thing. Hand to Hand seems to "stick" at the start of a chain of blows, but then catches up sometime shortly after you stop punching. It doesn't seem to lose any experience in the mean time though, so it isn't really an issue.

[edit] Punching Ghosts

I was under the impression that HtH doesn't work against ghosts; or at least not when your skill level is low. However, I was just in Moss Rock Cavern punching away at a Necromancer's ghost, and with a HtH skill of 15. Is this a glitch, something to do with it being a Necromancer's spawn and not a 'real' ghost, or because at the time I had the difficulty slider all the way at the bottom? Thanks.^{—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.127.79.8 (talk • contribs).}

I think it has something to do with the fact that it was a Summoned ghost, as I've experienced similar occurences with Summoned creatures. Of course, I could be wrong. Darkle 20:57, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

Hand-to-hand works against anything. My current character is currently boosting his skills by punching out gloom wraiths in Ayleid ruins. I'd agree it's a little odd that you can punch ghosts but not hit them with iron but it's not a glitch as Morrowind works in the same way. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 00:53, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

Useful to know. Thanks. I'm looking to increase my HtH anyway, and it saves lugging around this extra silver weapon.