Oblivion talk:Dark Brotherhood Murderer

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Contents 1 Deletion Proposal 2 Best murderer to pick 3 Wow 4 Murderer health 5 respawns? 6 Reference IDs? 7 Merchant 8 Pickpocketing 9 Oblivion Gate 10 Usability Issue

[edit] Deletion Proposal

Seeing as how this page was just created, I really don't think it's necessary in the least. The details of the Dark Brotherhood Murderers are already listed in Followers (albeit not as specifically), making an entire page centered around them redundant. Similarly, there is no page for the Mage Apprentice, which is nearly identical to the Dark Brotherhood Murderer in function. SubtleCynicism 21:04, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

Well the followers is not as detailed and I haven't even completed the page yet. This is my first one I'm still learning to insert images etc.

Forlornhope

The problem isn't with the fact that the page is incomplete, because you obviously have not been given time to finish it; the issue is with the page's reason to exist. The fact that a Followers page exists is reason enough to assume the denomination of followers into a less-important category; as such, to make an in-depth page about a certain type of follower is counterproductive to this purpose. Not only that, but to remain consistent, a page of this sort would have to be created for each follower. However, there are many NPCs listed on the Followers page that follow the player for a short time only (usually in accordance with quests), making a page detailing their time as a follower superfluous. Also, note that you can sign your edits by placing four tilde's at the end of it. SubtleCynicism 21:28, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

Also, if I could ask a couple of things of you: First, I would like to suggest that you suspend work on the page until the deletion discussion is resolved (if not just to save yourself work that may be deleted); Second, if you to intend to continue your edits, please use the "Show Preview" button rather than "Save Page" so that you do not create multiple edits (understand that we patrollers must individually check each edit, and as such, keeping the count to a minimum is a great help). SubtleCynicism 21:42, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

Ok I'll stop but the followers doesn't detail them at all. I did edit it a bit to expand its info tho. I was going to do one for the mages and knights as well since I enjoy having followers around I thought id do a page on each of the useful (ie not quest related) ones and their equips/etc. I just don't think its fair at all to judge a pages worth before it even has any information on it. Forlornhope 22:11, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

If there's a separate page for the Adoring Fan, there's no reason why there shouldn't be separate pages for DB Murderers and Mage Apprentices who are far more useful. The information on the Followers page is good enough for someone who just wants to have a quick list of all useful followers but a separate detailed page like this one should provide information on their stats(weapons, spells, races, etc). I use Murderers and Apprentices iften so I'll try and help as much as I can. --Sundaroct131088 22:35, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

Well, if you are intent on the creation of other pages for followers, I'm not here to stop either of you. My worry was that the original editor was only planning on the creation of this page, which I am still convinced of. However, if there are to be other pages, they will have to be consistent with each other. If this is to become a project, which is apparent, I will remove the deletion tag; however, I will continue to keep my eye on this page, as well as the pages created under the project. Unfortunately, this page is already riddled with grammar, punctuation, spelling, and capitalization errors, as well as poor wording. I'll make a few edits myself in order to counteract this, but we'll see how it goes. SubtleCynicism 22:54, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

Yes, I believe there's enough information to justify separate pages for the Murderers and Apprentices. --Sundaroct131088 23:24, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

Just to respond to SC's comment about creating a page for every NPC listed on the Followers page - it's not that unusual, if you consider the fact that with the exception of Mage Apprentice, Knight of the Nine, Imperial Legion Archer, and up until today Dark Brotherhood Murderer, every other NPC listed on that page already DID have a page. Given that each of these types of followers comes in multiple varieties, I think it may indeed be worth documenting them all on their own pages. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 00:26, 11 September 2007 (EDT)

Yes, well, I'm beyond the point of skepticism, in light of the consensus. In fact, I've made some considerable edits to this page and will be starting (and hopefully finishing) the rest of the required pages tomorrow. SubtleCynicism 01:14, 11 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Best murderer to pick

Contrary to what the article says, I find the Imperial Archer to be the best of the lot. Sure in a head-to-head fight the Khajiit easily beats the other two but I find the Khajiit and Breton easily get overpowered, especially at higher levels. The archer however sometimes comes with enchanted arrows, and given sufficient room to move around he can be very useful. The worst murderer to pick imo, is the Breton female. Also the Breton female is the only one who buys/sells items. --Sundaroct131088 22:48, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

This is why opinion-based content should be avoided. I haven't edited the main page yet because it's clearly still a work in progress but at some point, phrases like "this Murderer is very difficult to keep alive" will need to come off as it's all down to a given player's style of combat. --Rpeh^Talk 00:49, 11 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Wow

Geez its changed while I was out! I don't know how to create tables etc I've only been here a short while. :P How do you go about finding out the exact health like that? I tried using the NPC template to make that little table but it ended up as a huge block of text instead. Sorry about the left typos I ceased editing it including the typos when I was asked to. Forlornhope 03:05, 11 September 2007 (EDT)

You get the information by using the Construction Set or (if you're a real geek like me) writing your own program to grab the data directly from the game files. You'll often find that newly-created pages grow quickly as a lot of people will think "that's a good idea" and dive in to add their own snippets of information. --Rpeh^Talk 03:32, 11 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Murderer health

The article states that the Archer has the most health, but the figures quoted don't bear this out. Can somebody confirm the correct values for the health of the different murderers? --Gaebrial 02:22, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

I think he may have lower health but because he wears a Shrouded Hood he gets extra protection and skill bonuses than the others. At level 31 my archer survived 3 hits from an Ogre. ^{—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sundaroct131088 (talk • contribs).}

If you're looking at the Mage as having higher health, the Mage's level looks like it's set at 5. The Archer however, appears to be 2 levels lower than the player. So, at higher levels, the Archer's level may be well into the 20s, while the Mage will remain at level 5. I think at least... --Saruuk 05:22, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

True. Based on the edits I've seen so far, the Mage seems to be the best murderer and the Archer seems to be the weakest. What nobody realizes is that the Archer doesn't need much health because he always keeps his distance from enemies, which means at higher levels he WILL last longer than the other two. The healing spell the mage has is virtually useless because she does NOT heal herself during the heat of battle and because she is not leveled I don't think her other stats and skills increase either. I don't know why it says, "The Archer will be killed easily in close quarters combat" when the other two also get killed in a matter of seconds. --Sundaroct131088 05:59, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

I've gone ahead and added the equations for NPC health and magicka to the infoboxes. Even though everybody obviously hates the equations, they at least provide some relevant information. Whereas the health/magicka numbers that were there before were really just random numbers that have absolutely no relationship to the NPC's actual health. For leveled NPCs, the health information visible in the construction set is not used in any way to determine the NPC's health. Instead, it is all done using equations based on the character's race, gender, and class.

As for the question of who has the most health, yes, the Mage's level is fixed at level 5 and therefore her health is always 50. So at low levels (up to PC level 8) she will have more health than either of the others. At higher levels, the archer will always have the most health. --Nephele^Talk 12:10, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] respawns?

I was wondering it says they respawn but its been over 3 days which I thought was the standard respawning time but my khajiit hasnt come back yet.

They won't respawn if you're in the same cell. In other words, leave the sanctuary and come back three days later. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:00, 3 February 2008(EST)

One of my murderers got killed and whenever I try to get another one they say I already have a follower. I'm quite sure he's quite dead. This happen to Anyone else? Anyway to fix this on Xbox or will it fix itself? 68.166.64.77 15:37, 6 February 2008 (EST)

[edit] Reference IDs?

I noticed that this article had no RefIDs or BaseIDs, can someone please post them, i want to make an army of the khajiit warriors since they will all follow me if i tell the original to (dont argue with what i just said, ive tested it with all the others)

[edit] Merchant

The Breton won't sell me anything or buy anything. She's not my active murderer, so that's not it. Does anyone know why? -91.107.89.123 09:27, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

I'm having this problem as well. Not sure what it is. NIL 16:31, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Pickpocketing

I have been wondering about why the archer murderer attacked me after pickpocketing him. While he was sleeping, I started to pickpocket him to improve my sneak skill, and after a while of doing it over and over again he got up and he got up and started attacking me?Master264 14:02, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

Pickpocketing a NPC lowers your disposition with it. When his disposition was low enough, it passed a threshold, and he started attacking you on sight. --Timenn < talk > 15:19, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Oblivion Gate

Why did the Oblivion gate I destroyed spit out my Khajiit murderer that died in it?Master264 14:09, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

It must probably have coincided with the Murderer respawning after his death. After you close an Oblivion Gate it will teleport your followers to the location of the recently closed gate (just like you), so that's why that is a likely moment to find your followers again. --Timenn < talk > 15:19, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Usability Issue

I noticed several pages link to: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Dark_Brotherhood_Murderer

Which shows up as a blank page, where as the URL I found for this one is

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Dark_Brotherhood_Murderers

I think its probably best to change this link to http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Dark_Brotherhood_Murderer instead of altering the otherones, but I don't know how to alter a link name here (unfortunately)

- KermEd

I'm having trouble following you; where are the links you're referring to? "Murderers" should automatically redirect to "Murderer", and it does for me when I click the links you provided. --GuildKnight^Talk2me 17:36, 7 October 2008 (EDT)